List of characters who can crouch/crouch block under f+1 & f+11

[funkdoc]

EDIT: This post is very detailed and technical. For a smaller post with all of the most important information, read this: http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?12173-List-of-characters-who-can-crouch-crouch-block-under-f-1-amp-f-11&p=184436&viewfull=1#post184436


While playing online I noticed that sometimes people seemed to be crouching under my f+1 and f+11, making them whiff completely even when blocking low. I've gone into training mode and it turns out, unfortunately, it wasn't just online wackiness. Also, this game has some of the most screwed-up hit detection I've ever seen. Check out the number of categories below to see what I mean!

Here is the full list of characters for each category:

Can crouch AND crouch block under f+1 & f+11:

Kung Lao
Mileena
Johnny Cage (NOTE: his crouching hitbox moves upward very rarely, in which case f+1 will connect. don't count on it!)
Jax


Can crouch under f+1 & f+11, can crouch block under f+11, can crouch block under f+1 at close range but not from f+1 max range:

Kitana (not too strict on the distance here)
Reptile (way too strict to be practical, must be absolute max range. also has the same crouching hitbox weirdness as Cage)


Cannot crouch under f+1, can crouch under f+11, can crouch block under f+1 & f+11:

Quan Chi (up & down crouching hitbox, f+11 can occasionally hit crouch)


Cannot crouch under f+1 OR f+11, can crouch block under both f+1 & f+11:

Sektor


Cannot crouch under f+1 OR f+11, can crouch block under f+11 unless in the corner, f+1 randomly whiffs sometimes on crouch block:

Skarlet


Cannot crouch under f+1 or f+11, cannot crouch block under f+11, f+1 randomly whiffs quite a bit on crouch block:

Sub-Zero


Can crouch but NOT crouch block under f+1 & f+11, though both moves can randomly whiff on crouch block in the corner:

Ermac (another character with a crouching hitbox like Cage, as well)


Cannot crouch OR crouch block under f+1, can crouch under f+11, can crouch block under f+11 unless in the corner:

Cyrax (NOTE: his crouching hitbox also varies, in the opposite way of the other characters mentioned; on very rare occasion, f+1 will whiff)


Cannot crouch OR crouch block under f+1, can crouch and crouch block under f+11:

Sonya
Kano (f+11 sometimes connects on crouch due to, again, rising hitbox. more common than a lot of the others but should still stick with f+1 alone)


Cannot crouch OR crouch block under f+1, cannot crouch under f+11, can crouch block under f+11:

Kabal


Cannot crouch OR crouch block under f+1, cannot crouch under f+11, can crouch block under f+11 unless in the corner:

Smoke


Cannot crouch OR crouch block under f+1 or f+11, though f+1 can randomly whiff on crouch block in the corner:

Nightwolf


Cannot crouch OR crouch block under f+1, can crouch but NOT crouch block under f+11:

Jade
Freddy Krueger

IMPORTANT NOTE: These characters cannot crouch f+11 immediately after blocking f+1, so for practical purposes this group is just as good for us as the one below.


Cannot crouch OR crouch block under f+1 or f+11:

Scorpion
Liu Kang
Sindel
Noob Saibot
Stryker
Shang Tsung
Raiden
Sheeva
Cyber Sub-Zero
Kenshi
Rain

 

[GNG Iniquity]

Yeah, the hitboxes on this game are trash. Always a blast playing Reptile and Ermac as JC. :bs:

 

[MagicMan357]

the more glitches the more depth and strategy i say

 

[Shadowfire]

Yeah, the hitboxes on this game are trash.

Not saying they don't need fixing, but have you played any other fighting game in the universe?

 

[cyke_out]

So is f+1,1 is bugged, why use it? what's so good about it? I don't think I've ever used it in a match ever.

 

[Feel_The_Byrne]

Yeah the amount of times this whiffs makes it kind of dodgy to use, but it is good to know who can fully dodge underneath this. If you start having problems using using this f1 then d1 into choke, make them respect it.

@ cyke_out: it's recovery on block is brilliant, I'm not sure about that actual figure(if someone has this could they post it) and it opens up frame traps for Kano.

 

[funkdoc]

Wow, I really have to defend f+1 on here? Kinda surprised, but then I didn't start using it much until recently. I've come to believe that (at least on characters who can't crouch it) it's Kano's single best move. Why?

- Has a bit more range than b+1 and the same speed (12 frames, fast for midrange pokes). Outranges most other characters' best pokes, although you have to watch out for Raiden and the godlike d+4's.

- f+1 and f+11 have the most advantage on block of any of Kano's moves. I think a f+1 or b+1 afterward will beat out most jabs. Actually, f+12 seems to be about even on block as well, and that's one of the longest-ranged strings in the game.

- f+1 is also Kano's best anti-air. It will hit anyone even at the highest point of their jump, and you can usually follow it up with a dash 212 then finish with whatever you like - I do j.kick xx airthrow for 22% total and huge wakeup advantage.

Anyway, after this I'm going to make a more condensed version of the OP that should be a lot easier to read and understand.

 

[funkdoc]

Shorter and sweeter version of the OP...


Use f+1 SPARINGLY in pressure on the following characters, as it whiffs a lot even if they crouch block:

Kung Lao
Reptile
Johnny Cage
Kitana
Mileena
Sub-Zero
Jax
Sektor (both robot and human)
Skarlet
Quan Chi
possibly Human Cyrax? lol not like that matters unless they patch out all the resets or something


Use f+1 sometimes in pressure, but remember that they can crouch under if if they don't block and it whiffs a lot in the corner:

Ermac


Pressure with f+1 frequently but NOT f+11 vs:

Robot Cyrax
Kabal
Sonya
Kano
Smoke


Feel free to pressure with f+1 AND f+11 vs:

Nightwolf (though not so much in the corner, f+1 whiffs a lot there)
Raiden
Shang Tsung
Liu Kang
Freddy Krueger
Rain
Kenshi
Scorpion
Noob Saibot
Cyber Sub-Zero
Stryker
Sheeva
Sindel
Jade

 

[Feel_The_Byrne]

I definetly agree that f11 is one f Kano's best pressure tools and his best aa apart from upball( but damage wise definetly his best aa)
Just going to add: f11 and probably f12(haven't really tested that tbh) completely whiffs on human Sektor and whiffs sometimes on human Cyrax( If you use f11 at least 1 punch will hit)
I've been experimenting with Kano's aas for quite a while and found these things:
1 is a good consistent aa, but leads to less damage than f1 (20% at best) but f1 seems to have a better hitbox than 1 and is pretty much superior.
Kano's roundhouse(f4) is a hard to use but still viable aa, especially in the corner where it leads to at least a 32% combo(f4~212~b12(upball) ). It has less of an upwards hitbox than f1 but it extends out further. It is also much slower though.
Kano's d1 is a pretty good aa, but I don't really use it as one much.
One weird one I found that is kind of useful is his string 112, the 2 at the end really sends an airborne opponent flying(nearly full screen) and if you hammer this in when your jumped at it, you can hopefully either stuff their jump or knock them away so you can zone them, it's not perfect but at least this string has a use.

 

[cyke_out]

Thanks for the tip about f+1,1 that string is as nice as everyone made it out to be. I've been using it alot yesterday and it really made my frame traps and pressure string insane, it got people so afriad to push buttons i was able to mix in his high/low juggle starters too.