Tech Lightning Kick Cancel & 32 32 Gimmick

[SEV]

Lightning Kick Cancel


This is my first time posting tech. Not sure if this is unknown or unusable because I never see people use it but searched through the pages and didn't see it as an old post either. The tech though is that by holding 1 during the lightning kick Flash can delay it, similar to a B/F3, and just like both of those it can be canceled out of by a dash.

Not sure if this is viable though due to Flash's recovery time on back dash and could possibly be punished. The application of this though, I imagine, would be to allow better usage of F2 as Flash could prevent a situation of being at negative frames after LK(-5) or SP(-1).

I don't have the ability to record or really the wherewithal to know if my testing was sufficient enough but I tested it by attempting to punish the back dash on reaction with Lex's Corps Charge(6 frames) but Flash was able to recover in time to block. The back dash puts Flash within B/F2 range.

So in order to punish this the opponent would have to make a read and attempt a reversal after the F21 and during the LK delay. If they don't respect it and catch them catching buttons, LK can be allowed to finish for 40-50% punish.

If the opponent respects the LK, and you play like a mad man, it could if be canceled into a forward dash to continue with D1D2 pressure or a grab if you catch them sleeping.

Simple but it adds a whole new mind game to Flash's game play. I am hoping this is useful to the Flash community. And a thanks and congrats to AK Harold if this turns out to be legit, got the idea from watching him delay a LK during the BNB he won last night.

32 32 Reverse Wake -Up Gimmick

Lastly the 32 32 gimmick. If you end a combo with 32, an additional, well timed 32 whiff will cause Flash to can-can over the opponent, reversing their wake up. The Flash doesn't cross over until the 2 animation so it will look like an input error, encouraging wake-ups that you can punish for 61% with trait.

The part that makes this a gimmick though, is that it is not safe. If the set up is known to the enemy it can be punished with a just frame D1 from the entire cast on reaction with possibly an exception for Batman due to his T-Rex arms. Also it does not work at all on: large characters(Lex, Bane, DD, Grundy) because the Flash won't cross over, teleport wake-ups(Scorpion), against Sinestro's Arachnid Sting because it hits behind him still, and must be immaculately timed against Black Adam's Lightning Cage.

In theory though you could cause more mind games by just doing 3, in an attempt to stop the opponent from doing a wake-up attack in fear of the cross over. Testing against 6 frame wake-ups, the Flash is still able to recover from the whiffed, empty 3 in time to block.

Fairly simple timing, but still requires timing. Whiffing the 32 too quickly will cause the opponent to wake-up in the right direction, but will still reverse inputs causing possible danger, and doing it too late will cause you to get hit by the wake-up, or cause you to be -11 on block.

If any of this tech proves to be legit, I encourage video posting from those that have the ability to do so or even a reposting from someone that will bring it more spotlight to level up the Flash community.

Zyphox
BoricuaHeat
SaJa
AK Harold

 

[AK Harold]

yes LK cancels are viable and will be necessary after delay kicks become a more well known frame trap. This tech is a little too advanced for the currentb meta though since people are not handling delay kicks at all yet.

truly with a character like flash any change in timing is very important to impose your will on the defender.

 

[Zyphox]

hey yeah this stuff really needs to be developed and hopefully used more, i need to test the delay LK tactic more, i use it sparingly in a few MU to test if they are mashing buttons on my block strings. as for 32 32, psycho found that tech a while ago and yeah its unsafe and unnecessary, and if you do use it, only once so your not blown up for it.

 

[random_x2]

lightning kick mixups are the equivalent of rekka mixups in other 2D games (a la fei long and nests kyo) except it's safer. like AK Harold said, the mixup might not be useful now but will be necessary in the future. being able to frame trap with LK can set you up for a dash in d1,d2 or d2 but i think that's you're only viable option out of the dash. Then again, who really cares since you're plus after the d2 anyway.

I personally like to use this mixup with my training partner, considering that the flash can't really build meter quickly any other way (aside from getting hit).

 

[FCP/EMP SCAR]

I have experiment more with LK myself, very nice tool to bait out n expose button mashers....i would also like to see my fellow brethren cancel into RMS after a connected b 22 f 3 to set up an ambiguous cross up neutral jump after the hard knockdown more often, i use this often and usually connects if the opponent decides not to wake up after te attack.

 

[Zyphox]

here is a youtube video on the delayed LK during pressure, exposes button mashers like scar said acts like a counter to people trying to poke out of pressure.

SEV against people who respect you, you an do a dash mix up once you establish this technique in the video, but dashing out of LK cancel unless in trait leaves you atleast -10 or more unless you backdash.

SaJa
Xenrail
LEGEND
Hellion_96
FCP/EMP SCAR
AYSAMO
Awesomo

i know this stuff isn't new but just posting it incase you didn't know and from watch flashes play in tournament recently they don't use it at all. my situation for using this is kind yomi in a sense that you can test your opponent especially early on in a tournament set whether or not they like to press buttons on your block strings, if they do they get launched, if they don't you're -5 just like regular LK. you don't have to do this all the time, but its a useful tool.

 

[AK Harold]

more things to use, seriously I am glad I have been fairly good bout sticking with a main. so much to learn. also yeah delay lk is very powerful against d2 spam between d1d2 sp. make them eat a raw lk mb and they are forced to respect and block. and yes I need to integrate rms tricks more but I've had very little training mode time. like 1 hr all week and on vacation now.

 

[Zyphox]

more things to use, seriously I am glad I have been fairly good bout sticking with a main. so much to learn. also yeah delay lk is very powerful against d2 spam between d1d2 sp. make them eat a raw lk mb and they are forced to respect and block. and yes I need to integrate rms tricks more but I've had very little training mode time. like 1 hr all week and on vacation now.

yeah the RMS after b22f3 is situational, you can cancel then go into MB B3 to beat out wake ups, do a 50/50 or a NJ cross up. if i end in 32 sometimes i go for that set up, sometimes i try OTG's. you should use more OTG's trust me, once you do one OTG in game for 57% they will start wakeing up everytime and giving you the ability to bait them out and punish

 

[LEGEND]

I don't get why delaying a flash kick would ever be a mix-up, just block it and reverse the pressure/punish the flash players dash per usual. No need to ever interrupt a charging kick.

Am i missing something?

 

[booivi]

here is a youtube video on the delayed LK during pressure, exposes button mashers like scar said acts like a counter to people trying to poke out of pressure.

SEV against people who respect you, you an do a dash mix up once you establish this technique in the video, but dashing out of LK cancel unless in trait leaves you atleast -10 or more unless you backdash.

SaJa
Xenrail
LEGEND
Hellion_96
FCP/EMP SCAR
AYSAMO
Awesomo

i know this stuff isn't new but just posting it incase you didn't know and from watch flashes play in tournament recently they don't use it at all. my situation for using this is kind yomi in a sense that you can test your opponent especially early on in a tournament set whether or not they like to press buttons on your block strings, if they do they get launched, if they don't you're -5 just like regular LK. you don't have to do this all the time, but its a useful tool.

Wow I might pick up flash just because of this...Thanks.

 

[Zyphox]

I don't get why delaying a flash kick would ever be a mix-up, just block it and reverse the pressure/punish the flash players dash per usual. No need to ever interrupt a charging kick.

Am i missing something?

you probably don't play a fearful flash then , i get people even respectable players mashing buttons on my block string, i won't name them here, they know who they are, and this works well my friend although they probably won't mash as much offline its still a decent tactic to use if you think they wanna press buttons

 

[LEGEND]

you probably don't play a fearing flash then, i get people even respectable players mashing buttons on my block string, i won't name them here, they know who they are, and this works well my friend although they probably won't mash as much offline its still a decent tactic to use if you think they wanna press buttons

sorry i don't play people that mash for no reason

this is the same issue that Frost players have, they always want to do fancy random stuff when all you need to do is put your opponent into the 50/50 until they die.

Also

you probably don't play a fearful flash then

What does this even mean?

 

[random_x2]

I don't get why delaying a flash kick would ever be a mix-up, just block it and reverse the pressure/punish the flash players dash per usual. No need to ever interrupt a charging kick.

Am i missing something?

It's not necessarily a mix-up for damage but more so a mix-up as to whether or not the flash will continue d1 pressure. You can interrupt the dash forward, but you can't interrupt the lightning kick.

 

[Zyphox]

sorry i don't play people that mash for no reason

this is the same issue that Frost players have, they always want to do fancy random stuff when all you need to do is put your opponent into the 50/50 until they die.

Also

What does this even mean?

i don't want to name any name, but online i have played people that would mash on your block string, good known players and if they dont but they guess that all your gonna do is b22 and try to for what ever reason try to poke out this will catch them. just try it before you deny it brah

 

[Xenrail]

here is a youtube video on the delayed LK during pressure, exposes button mashers like scar said acts like a counter to people trying to poke out of pressure.

SEV against people who respect you, you an do a dash mix up once you establish this technique in the video, but dashing out of LK cancel unless in trait leaves you atleast -10 or more unless you backdash.

SaJa
Xenrail
LEGEND
Hellion_96
FCP/EMP SCAR
AYSAMO
Awesomo

i know this stuff isn't new but just posting it incase you didn't know and from watch flashes play in tournament recently they don't use it at all. my situation for using this is kind yomi in a sense that you can test your opponent especially early on in a tournament set whether or not they like to press buttons on your block strings, if they do they get launched, if they don't you're -5 just like regular LK. you don't have to do this all the time, but its a useful tool.

b22f3 xx lightning kick delay is pretty good too

 

[BoricuaHeat]

Forgot to post on this! Delaying LK is a cool technique to screw with their impatience and if done from a max range b22f3, it will get some normals to whiff, allowing for a quick overhead whiff punish or whatever you chose that get's the dirty deed done.(always buffer meter burn lighting kicks for maximum damage!!)

32 Lighting Kick will also catch people pressing buttons.

Another thing that can be done which someone posted before is meter less LK dash cancel combo's during trait, a gimmick in its own but a fun gimmick, F21, LK, Hold 1, dash cancel, repeat until third rep for a f3(2) surprise overhead or opt for a b22 sonic pound ender for a knockdown mix up.

And on the 32 gimmick, their is a way to make it semi safe but since so much anti wake up tech has been discovered with Flash I didn't feel the need to portrait it to perfection.

Basically if they input a wake up attack during the 32 there is a window where you can whiff cancel 32 into any special except speed dodge(dammit), it can punish some wake ups but the combo's have to be very character dependent and you sacrifice damage.

You could also use trait into a quick knockdown, and constantly 32 while staying safe but, again very risky.

 

[SaJa]

here is a youtube video on the delayed LK during pressure, exposes button mashers like scar said acts like a counter to people trying to poke out of pressure.

SEV against people who respect you, you an do a dash mix up once you establish this technique in the video, but dashing out of LK cancel unless in trait leaves you atleast -10 or more unless you backdash.

Does it work after d1 ?

 

[Zyphox]

Does it work after d1 ?

its just like d1d2 you have a very small window to hold the cancel and let it go before they can poke back.

 

[Flawless Thomas]

its just like d1d2 you have a very small window to hold the cancel and let it go before they can poke back.

I have a question for Zyphox regarding the LK cancel, so I was toying around in practice and did d1d2, LK cancel dash forward and then either repeat that or do a throw. Is this viable/has this idea been talked about? If I'm not being clear I can make a video showing it as well.

 

[Zyphox]

I have a question for Zyphox regarding the LK cancel, so I was toying around in practice and did d1d2, LK cancel dash forward and then either repeat that or do a throw. Is this viable/has this idea been talked about? If I'm not being clear I can make a video showing it as well.

nah d1d2 doesn't have good cancel advantage so you can get poked out easily or blown up if read. b22 has the most cancel advantage and even thats not viable.

 

[Flawless Thomas]

nah d1d2 doesn't have good cancel advantage so you can get poked out easily or blown up if read. b22 has the most cancel advantage and even thats not viable.

Right on thanks for the input man!