General/Other - Necromancer Libris Mortis [Necromancer Variation Discussion Thread]

[regulas]

One of the more confusing things about Shin general discussion is the fact that it just jumbles together everything when most of the time people are talking about things that are variation specific.

So here would be the place to talk about Necromancer Shinnok specifically.

If anyone writes one up I will include a guide (I might add something myself) or other basic info.

 

[n9195v]

I personally believe that every combo he does in this variation should end in df4 for the hard knock down.
112xdf4
f22xdf4
b3 f22xdf4
f4xdf4
NJP jip1 f22xdf4
112xdb2Ehthird blast dash NJP f22xdf4

The hard knockdown allows for the mixups.

If they do not delay their wakeup. Dash into b3 is timed perfectly to stuff any non-armored wake-up attack. Dash into wait - f4xbf2 does the same. A long delay will make you safe but a short delay will let them mess you up.

 

[AcMilan91]

more tips would be nice

 

[RM_NINfan101]

I personally believe that every combo he does in this variation should end in df4 for the hard knock down.
112xdf4
f22xdf4
b3 f22xdf4
f4xdf4
NJP jip1 f22xdf4
112xdb2Ehthird blast dash NJP f22xdf4

The hard knockdown allows for the mixups.

If they do not delay their wakeup. Dash into b3 is timed perfectly to stuff any non-armored wake-up attack. Dash into wait - f4xbf2 does the same. A long delay will make you safe but a short delay will let them mess you up.

I will definitely try this. This certainly seems like a good idea if I don't have meter to burn for a comboable hellsparks.

EDIT: OR even if I do. Huh. anyway, what's the method you use to tell someone on here what variation you use underneath your avatar?

 

[n9195v]

I will definitely try this. This certainly seems like a good idea if I don't have meter to burn for a comboable hellsparks.

EDIT: OR even if I do. Huh. anyway, what's the method you use to tell someone on here what variation you use underneath your avatar?

A little off topic, but you have to click where you see it. There's a very small space you have to click under your avatar.

After df4 dash into f223 is great! They can't jump, wake up attack, short delay, or backdash. They can long delay and get you with a fast normal, I was only able to get a 6 frame normal to beat it. Unless they know and are looking for it I doubt it'd come into play.

More extremely situational tips:
After a flick connects dash forward and flick again. Perfect timing if they don't roll or delay. Even if they roll they can't jip you.

I like to play shinnok within f2 range so the dashing forward is something I try to sneak in where ever I can

 

[imblackjames]

I personally believe that every combo he does in this variation should end in df4 for the hard knock down.
112xdf4
f22xdf4
b3 f22xdf4
f4xdf4
NJP jip1 f22xdf4
112xdb2Ehthird blast dash NJP f22xdf4

The hard knockdown allows for the mixups.

If they do not delay their wakeup. Dash into b3 is timed perfectly to stuff any non-armored wake-up attack. Dash into wait - f4xbf2 does the same. A long delay will make you safe but a short delay will let them mess you up.

I actually like ending my combos in hell sparks. It gets the opponent full screen for his zoning and in my experience after theyre full screen they tech roll and try some wake up and get hit by a flick. That works like 89% of the time then once they respect that they stay on tbe ground for a sky hand

 

[RM_NINfan101]

I actually like ending my combos in hell sparks. It gets the opponent full screen for his zoning and in my experience after theyre full screen they tech roll and try some wake up and get hit by a flick. That works like 89% of the time then once they respect that they stay on tbe ground for a sky hand

I can certainly see why you would use hand though. Especially against characters like Scorpion, because most will teleport Flick on reaction right away.

 

[n9195v]

I actually like ending my combos in hell sparks. It gets the opponent full screen for his zoning and in my experience after theyre full screen they tech roll and try some wake up and get hit by a flick. That works like 89% of the time then once they respect that they stay on tbe ground for a sky hand

I wouldn't play like this. IMO his zoning is weak in this variation. I feel the risk/reward is heavily in the favor of the hard knockdown.

 

[imblackjames]

I wouldn't play like this. IMO his zoning is weak in this variation. I feel the risk/reward is heavily in the favor of the hard knockdown.

I think his zoing is amazing in this variation. You lock them down with flick and if ur not spamming it you can see a run coming and hell spark Mb. If they block hell spark then you get a free flick and if they get hit you can combo. They then have a tendency to delay wake up which is when u smoosh them, then they try to wake up and u flick them them tvey get up and try to run and u smoosh them again with tbe close hand....no lie this happens like 50% of the time when im playing @ChatterBox can vouch for it

 

[Hidan]

I wouldn't play like this. IMO his zoning is weak in this variation. I feel the risk/reward is heavily in the favor of the hard knockdown.

Necromancer lies with Flick and Judgement (now). Fullscreen is better than HKD

 

[ChatterBox]

I think his zoing is amazing in this variation. You lock them down with flick and if ur not spamming it you can see a run coming and hell spark Mb. If they block hell spark then you get a free flick and if they get hit you can combo. They then have a tendency to delay wake up which is when u smoosh them, then they try to wake up and u flick them them tvey get up and try to run and u smoosh them again with tbe close hand....no lie this happens like 50% of the time when im playing @ChatterBox can vouch for it

True story, it's awful.

I would like this post, but I refuse to use the word "like" anywhere near Shinnok ever again. People are sleeping on this variation now.

 

[SaJa]

So necromancer is decent now ?

 

[xInfra Deadx]

So necromancer is decent now ?

Not really. The tracking is still god awful on his bone specials.

 

[Hidan]

So necromancer is decent now ?

yes, but whatever NRS do, there is one thing they can't patch.

Downplaying

 

[n9195v]

Necromancer lies with Flick and Judgement (now). Fullscreen is better than HKD

Both of those option can be full combo punished from full screen by the majority of the cast.

his knock down game is good in this variation, and I personally believe it should used over his alright zoning.

 

[ChatterBox]

Necromancer lies with Flick and Judgement (now).

Both of those option can be full combo punished from full screen by the majority of the cast.

Please explain, I can't get around flick well at all.

 

[n9195v]

Please explain, I can't get around flick well at all.

Run and if he did flick continue running right up to him and have your way with him. If you run and he didn't flick cancel the run into block.

Also if you'd like to play against my Shinnok add me on psn n9195v

 

[RM_NINfan101]

@n9195v If you do a hybrid of both zoning and doing oki I promise your wins will increase tenfold.

You condition them for flick, then go for grabs, go for b3s/f4s... It wrecks. People get confused, scared, start to get desperate to get away from all the chip you can do with MB Hellsparks and EX Amulet in the corner. His footsies, use them to poke. Grab range is good to put you at a good poking distance. This is a legit variation people. This character is nothing to sleep on. Give Shinnok better shit than what he has? We may be talking about a high tier character. But I don't think he really needs much more if anything. That moveable unblockable is a godsend in some matchups.

 

[Hidan]

@ChatterBox

@n9195v If you do a hybrid of both zoning and doing oki I promise your wins will increase tenfold.

You condition them for flick, then go for grabs, go for b3s/f4s... It wrecks. People get confused, scared, start to get desperate to get away from all the chip you can do with MB Hellsparks and EX Amulet in the corner. His footsies, use them to poke. Grab range is good to put you at a good poking distance. This is a legit variation people. This character is nothing to sleep on. Give Shinnok better shit than what he has? We may be talking about a high tier character. But I don't think he really needs much more if anything. That moveable unblockable is a godsend in some matchups.

This

and I usually end combos with sparks so, if the opp doesn't have teleport you can throw a flick or two there. Worst case scenario would be doing 10% on an armored move.

To be fully realistic, Necromancer does what he did pre patch. Block confirms into -4 and when they start interrupt the mind games begin.

Post patch... with sparks being 12 frame 75% screen hitbox and hit/block confirmable into combo/+24, necromancer moves go out the window, they are only for fun (though I can't vision or play Shinnok without his true arms).

 

[Genei Jin]

this is my favorite variation but imo, its the weakest variation.

imposter has the vortex and damage, bone shaper has safe strings and range but little damage.

necromancer feels like some where in between. it does more damage than bone shaper, but not as much as imposter.

i just wish devils flick has better tracking against runners without making this move broken. being able to render sub zeros klones to nearly useless is nice.

can anyone find a use for the ex backhand?

 

[SaltShaker]

Seriously, why is his damage so low in this variation doing doodoo damage for 1 bar, and why can characters simply magically run through his bone specials for free punishes??? It would be like running right through Kenshi's telefurry or running through a Stunt Double Kick. It's so stupid.

I have no idea how you guys aren't screaming to the moon for buffs with this variation.

 

[RM_NINfan101]

Seriously, why is his damage so low in this variation doing doodoo damage for 1 bar, and why can characters simply magically run through his bone specials for free punishes??? It would be like running right through Kenshi's telefurry or running through a Stunt Double Kick. It's so stupid.

I have no idea how you guys aren't screaming to the moon for buffs with this variation.

Shinnok in general is just kinda a mess. It's like before Scooby-Doo and The Mystery Machine show up to crack the case. You have no idea who the culprit(s) are and you have no leads.

Weird metaphor, but I would argue across all his variation he's underwhelming. People kept saying Impostor, totally the way to go! Yet people tend to forget what looks good on paper is not always executed well. He's a rushed character in a game that does not focus on zoning and I have seen characters, many at this point with some type of jump arc or divekick that do not get hit by Hellsparks so I think if anything he just sucks simply because in any other game he might honestly be a good character.

But with his low damage output, the fact you mostly have to outplay your opponent to win with him, and try to get all this chip and spend meter just to be plus on anything and then all of a sudden you have no breaker because none of his shit is safe without meter aside from 1,1 b2 and 2. Not very good, is it?

Boneshaper gives him a chance. Necro, if given something else, might also give him a chance, but Impostor is just all gimmicks that once people find out, they get wrecked by it. You can't just air teleport and njk for free, it comes with a price. I even said earlier I highly think his vortex is overrated because of the damage and few options he can really use to set it up. (b3 into combo, f4 into hellsparks, grab? Okay...)

I will say that he probably could use a bit more of a damage buff and then people would actually have to be afraid of even getting touched by Shinnok, and seeing how damn unsafe his wakeup option is and how shitty shoulder is to begin with, and has odd hitboxes and whack strings that I think him being able to do more damage would honestly be all he needs. I just don't really get what to do with this character because well, then you add in the damage buff on Impostor and that might be too much, who knows.

NRS will likely buff him once again since the trend is bottom tier gets focused on way more than the top, but since he's in the lower mid/mid at best, who knows.

 

[Youphemism]

Seriously, why is his damage so low in this variation doing doodoo damage for 1 bar, and why can characters simply magically run through his bone specials for free punishes??? It would be like running right through Kenshi's telefurry or running through a Stunt Double Kick. It's so stupid.

I have no idea how you guys aren't screaming to the moon for buffs with this variation.

This is the main variation I wanted to play at the beginning but I can't touch it until it's fixed. WHY DO ALL MY MAINS NEED FIXES?!

 

[SaltShaker]

Shinnok in general is just kinda a mess. It's like before Scooby-Doo and The Mystery Machine show up to crack the case. You have no idea who the culprit(s) are and you have no leads.

Weird metaphor, but I would argue across all his variation he's underwhelming. People kept saying Impostor, totally the way to go! Yet people tend to forget what looks good on paper is not always executed well. He's a rushed character in a game that does not focus on zoning and I have seen characters, many at this point with some type of jump arc or divekick that do not get hit by Hellsparks so I think if anything he just sucks simply because in any other game he might honestly be a good character.

But with his low damage output, the fact you mostly have to outplay your opponent to win with him, and try to get all this chip and spend meter just to be plus on anything and then all of a sudden you have no breaker because none of his shit is safe without meter aside from 1,1 b2 and 2. Not very good, is it?

Boneshaper gives him a chance. Necro, if given something else, might also give him a chance, but Impostor is just all gimmicks that once people find out, they get wrecked by it. You can't just air teleport and njk for free, it comes with a price. I even said earlier I highly think his vortex is overrated because of the damage and few options he can really use to set it up. (b3 into combo, f4 into hellsparks, grab? Okay...)

I will say that he probably could use a bit more of a damage buff and then people would actually have to be afraid of even getting touched by Shinnok, and seeing how damn unsafe his wakeup option is and how shitty shoulder is to begin with, and has odd hitboxes and whack strings that I think him being able to do more damage would honestly be all he needs. I just don't really get what to do with this character because well, then you add in the damage buff on Impostor and that might be too much, who knows.

NRS will likely buff him once again since the trend is bottom tier gets focused on way more than the top, but since he's in the lower mid/mid at best, who knows.

Couldn't agree more with that post.

 

[SaltShaker]

This is the main variation I wanted to play at the beginning but I can't touch it until it's fixed. WHY DO ALL MY MAINS NEED FIXES?!

Haha same me too. He was the very 1st one I tried. We're drawn to the same characters lol.

I follow the Shinnok threads waiting for the day I read that Necro specials have actual tracking and meterless/1 bar combos actually do damage. That an hopefully everything in his arsenal won't be punishable. NRS had no love for the boss character.