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General/Other - Kung Lao Kung lao Changes discussion

Carl

Carl

Mortal
Hello kung laoians as you know there has been a kombat kast today to talk about patch notes.

I get straight to the point to talk about the changes.

Tempest -

- The ex-orbiting hat now has more hit advantage
- JI2 Slightly reduced range

Now in the beta his spin would suck you in and there was a damage reduction yet in the kast there wasn't any mention of this.

As for buzzsaw and hattrick there was no nerfs or buffs here so to speak.

Your thoughts on this.
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Kung Lao can now ex tele grab out of the very string as a launcher, it means hat trick and buzzsaw got their combo extensions, surely this benefits hat trick when he is hatless and makes his away trap of some use.

Not sure if the str am covered all characters at all, so let's wait for the patch notes.
 
Saltea Moonspell

Saltea Moonspell

"Mind Over Matter" I dont mind, and X dont matter
Somewhere deep inside i knew they wouldnt do shit about it. I will stay play him though. I think after those nerfs its going to be a little bit easier at a times.
 
Carl

Carl

Mortal
Eddy Wang said:
Kung Lao can now ex tele grab out of the very string as a launcher, it means hat trick and buzzsaw got their combo extensions, surely this benefits hat trick when he is hatless and makes his away trap of some use.

Not sure if the str am covered all characters at all, so let's wait for the patch notes.
Click to expand...
Sorry my friend which strings xan he continue his ex tele grab?
 
dennycascade

dennycascade

UPR_ghastem
Look at what happened to tremor, cassie and tanya and quan (the rest of the top 5). You guys didnt just dodge a bullet, you matrix'd that shit.
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Carl said:
Sorry my friend which strings xan he continue his ex tele grab?
Click to expand...
Don't know, but we will find out in 3 days.
Its possibly all his strings that combo into Hatarang, hat spin and ex hat grinder, so F21, f23, 112124 and B32 are all probably guaranteed links.

I like the buff, it gives me a chance to fake one shot mixups on hat trick once i get two meters, if my opponent risk himself to try to blow me up, i can choose to do or not do this combo at will hopefully f23~tele2 is a true link, i will go apeshit if it is.
It also solves his problem of ppl getting out of the traps range by jumping behind him, with the trip guard buffs, this can be interesting to try out.

My only concern right now is, that his HCB might be untouched, so ppl will still stick their neck out mashing buttons in crouching stance, which won't matter if you hit, the float propriety of a character crouching when hit by HCB makes him nearly impossible to punish unless you know it will happen, otherwise your raw HCB combos won't work due inconsistency, so unless you HCB on someone standing, you won't be getting your punishes.

they also said they increased cassie's and her assosiates hitboxes, hopefully this means everyone in the cast, because as far as i can tell, HCB whiffs even on Kung Lao, Scorpion, Sub-Zero, Shinnok, pretty much everyone that is not Kotal Kahn or maybe ferra/torr.

And then there is Above Hat trap remaining useless as hell through the entire game since launch just because the hat is placed right above Kung lao's head, and the pressure issue which f0xy is always talking about.

those are my concerns, now, but i will still wait for the patch notes, we need details.
 
Carl

Carl

Mortal
Eddy Wang said:
Don't know, but we will find out in 3 days.
Its possibly all his strings that combo into Hatarang, hat spin and ex hat grinder, so F21, f23, 112124 and B32 are all probably guaranteed links.

I like the buff, it gives me a chance to fake one shot mixups on hat trick once i get two meters, if my opponent risk himself to try to blow me up, i can choose to do or not do this combo at will hopefully f23~tele2 is a true link, i will go apeshit if it is.
It also solves his problem of ppl getting out of the traps range by jumping behind him, with the trip guard buffs, this can be interesting to try out.

My only concern right now is, that his HCB might be untouched, so ppl will still stick their neck out mashing buttons in crouching stance, which won't matter if you hit, the float propriety of a character crouching when hit by HCB makes him nearly impossible to punish unless you know it will happen, otherwise your raw HCB combos won't work due inconsistency, so unless you HCB on someone standing, you won't be getting your punishes.

they also said they increased cassie's and her assosiates hitboxes, hopefully this means everyone in the cast, because as far as i can tell, HCB whiffs even on Kung Lao, Scorpion, Sub-Zero, Shinnok, pretty much everyone that is not Kotal Kahn or maybe ferra/torr.

And then there is Above Hat trap remaining useless as hell through the entire game since launch just because the hat is placed right above Kung lao's head, and the pressure issue which f0xy is always talking about.

those are my concerns, now, but i will still wait for the patch notes, we need details.
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Thank you for your reply.

Ok eddy i see what you mean. Now in the beta i did try ji2 into tele 1 and that works because the ji2 hit advantage is 24f.
But then again they nerfed ji2 hitbox so i dont know how good it will be to jump forward with it as i get anti aired alot with standing 1.

The f21 hit advantage is 5f and the f23 advantange is 1. Possibly maybe it can be done with the b32 which is 14f advantage so if this is the case that either of these can connect into teleport OMG lol.

So basically they increased cassie and co there hitbox which means tele 3 and 2 shouldn't miss especially on kitana.

They didnt mention anything in the cast about hattrick and buzzsaw so im assuming maybe frame adjustments only as it seems nothing major happened to those 2 variations.

But i agree with you we need more details to see if there is any frame data adjustments as they didnt go through the whole changes in the cast.

1 more day to go cannot bloody wait.
 
Tweedy

Tweedy

Champion
dennycascade said:
Look at what happened to tremor, cassie and tanya and quan (the rest of the top 5). You guys didnt just dodge a bullet, you matrix'd that shit.
Click to expand...
Imo Lao got hit harder than Cassie or Tremor. I don't even see how it would be debatable. Quan I don't know too much about personally. Tanya losing EX rekkas was pretty significant.

Tremor lost things that basically no other characters have. No other character has a plus on block launcher, and even with the changes, the move is still not even punishable by any character in the game. A launching armored move that's not punishable. That's pretty good. Now to the ground pound, what other characters can add 13% on top of 35-40 percent combos with a bar? He'll still be able to add good damage to smaller combos. Being able to turn 35-40% combos into 50%+ combos with a bar was silly.

The up rock is the only nerf that I can see really hurting his game. Even with that, can't he just do the same set ups with EX rock? I mean what other character can throw out an armor breaking set up for free like Tremor could before, while keeping all of their tools. At least when Lao throws out orbiting hat, he loses pretty much all of his launching ability, along with his overhead option. I'll concede that that will probably hurt Tremor, but idk if it's as significant as Lao losing D4/F2 jail and B321/112124 off of EX orbiting hat.

What exactly happened to Cassie outside of losing armor on EX flipkick? She still has armor in every variation, she still has 7 frame buttons, still has a decent backdash. Her defense is fine. I understand that she could OS a lot of armored moves with her 50/50s + EX flipkick before. Wasn't that a little unbalanced? She still has true 50/50s that lead to good damage and oki, that can be made safe with meter. Some of the best jump ins in the game, back 1, great buttons.

The key point here is that Lao's pressure was basically destroyed. All of these other characters lost dirt that didn't really hurt their core offense.

When I say that his pressure was destroyed, i'm not saying he's bad. I made a post yesterday about why he's still good. The character is still going to be top 10, even with the DLC, imo. He has a great neutral game, great damage, EX spin. However, the pressure game that Foxy displayed at SCR, for example, is not possible anymore. You just get to throw out checks that don't need to be respected, after EX hat.
 
Carl

Carl

Mortal
Invincible Salads said:
if all the hits connect on block though it jails into 4 don't it?
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Yes im sure it does though i need to get the kp2 and goto the lab and start testing. Im nervous as hell and waiting because in the kombat kast they didnt say if the ex spin sucking you in stayed and the damage nerf so def i will lab this stuff and post it.

Im sure he has received other minor stuff which they didnt talk about though maybe a low starter lmaooo (im dreaming now)
 
Carl

Carl

Mortal
Tweedy said:
Imo Lao got hit harder than Cassie or Tremor. I don't even see how it would be debatable. Quan I don't know too much about personally. Tanya losing EX rekkas was pretty significant.

Tremor lost things that basically no other characters have. No other character has a plus on block launcher, and even with the changes, the move is still not even punishable by any character in the game. A launching armored move that's not punishable. That's pretty good. Now to the ground pound, what other characters can add 13% on top of 35-40 percent combos with a bar? He'll still be able to add good damage to smaller combos. Being able to turn 35-40% combos into 50%+ combos with a bar was silly.

The up rock is the only nerf that I can see really hurting his game. Even with that, can't he just do the same set ups with EX rock? I mean what other character can throw out an armor breaking set up for free like Tremor could before, while keeping all of their tools. At least when Lao throws out orbiting hat, he loses pretty much all of his launching ability, along with his overhead option. I'll concede that that will probably hurt Tremor, but idk if it's as significant as Lao losing D4/F2 jail and B321/112124 off of EX orbiting hat.

What exactly happened to Cassie outside of losing armor on EX flipkick? She still has armor in every variation, she still has 7 frame buttons, still has a decent backdash. Her defense is fine. I understand that she could OS a lot of armored moves with her 50/50s + EX flipkick before. Wasn't that a little unbalanced? She still has true 50/50s that lead to good damage and oki, that can be made safe with meter. Some of the best jump ins in the game, back 1, great buttons.

The key point here is that Lao's pressure was basically destroyed. All of these other characters lost dirt that didn't really hurt their core offense.

When I say that his pressure was destroyed, i'm not saying he's bad. I made a post yesterday about why he's still good. The character is still going to be top 10, even with the DLC, imo. He has a great neutral game, great damage, EX spin. However, the pressure game that Foxy displayed at SCR, for example, is not possible anymore. You just get to throw out checks that don't need to be respected, after EX hat.
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Let hope he received some small frame buffs to try to compensate for the nerfs.

Though in the kombat kast they never mentioned anything about the damage nerf and the spin sucking you in so it looks like that didnt stay as it was in the beta.

I can barely wait any longer to take him to the lab when kp2 comes out to see what improvements in other variations he has.

Other than his nefs i have to test out this ex orbiting hat with more hit advantage and tyler said you can do a njp after you hit it so thats kool and also the teleport 1 links up with combos now though i think mainly the ji2 as thats the only one that worked in the beta.

Im curious also if they increased his walk speed alittle they would be great as his walk back speed seems slow to me.
 
Meep8345

Meep8345

Apprentice
Tempest is still top tier and now there's actually a decent reason to pick buzz saw over tempest. He still has his stagger strings and amazing normals he just has to actually make reads when he uses ex hat spin rather than jailing a d4. The nerf was pretty fair imo.
 
Invincible Salads

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
how does his pressure even work now with only +7 hat? nothing is guaranteed, armor shits on every single option you can take pretty much.
 
DDutchguy

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
Invincible Salads said:
how does his pressure even work now with only +7 hat? nothing is guaranteed, armor shits on every single option you can take pretty much.
Click to expand...
You could always bait it out. Also armoring out has to basically be done on a read because of EX orbiting hat's speed. Mixing up 11212~EXhat and 112124~EXhat could be a thing, though I can't say how good this is in practice since I don't play Lao.

I feel people are underestimating being + on block. Pressure that doesn't jail is still pressure and you can work with that. There's just more mind games involved because you no longer have a massive advantage.
 
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