Match-up Discussion Kratos Matchup Discussion Thread

[Alien Substance]

Noob spammers.

Trick here is to parry their projectiles close to them, but that can be difficult. Jump over their shadows when you're at full-screen range.
If you're around jump-range and you parry a shadow, if they jump over your Golden Ball, you can Zeus' Rage them on their way down. If they jump forward, you can anti-air them with 1xxHelios, or B+1xxHelios. If they Teleport from that range, you will recover in time to block it.

Try to get close to the Noob Saibot scrub, but don't jump into his Shadow Upknee: stay closer than full-screen and a bit farther than jump-distance. Jump over the shadows at the right moment, Noob has horrible recovery on his Shadow Tackle/Slide. You can try parrying shadows from there instead of jumping as well.

If he does a Shadow Upknee but at a range where you know it won't hit you, you might be able to get a Zeus' Rage on him.

 

[huh]

Trick here is to parry their projectiles close to them, but that can be difficult. Jump over their shadows when you're at full-screen range.
If you're around jump-range and you parry a shadow, if they jump over your Golden Ball, you can Zeus' Rage them on their way down. If they jump forward, you can anti-air them with 1xxHelios, or B+1xxHelios. If they Teleport from that range, you will recover in time to block it.

Try to get close to the Noob Saibot scrub, but don't jump into his Shadow Upknee: stay closer than full-screen and a bit farther than jump-distance. Jump over the shadows at the right moment, Noob has horrible recovery on his Shadow Tackle/Slide. You can try parrying shadows from there instead of jumping as well.

If he does a Shadow Upknee but at a range where you know it won't hit you, you might be able to get a Zeus' Rage on him.

Thxs!! I'll try that! The spacing thing seems promising: close, but just outside upknee range, in order to parry a shadow and make noob jump into an anti-air. 1xxHelios seems a good idea indeed, to anti-air with the fastest normal after they jump over the parry. Thxs again!

 

[Alien Substance]

Thxs!! I'll try that! The spacing thing seems promising: close, but just outside upknee range, in order to parry a shadow and make noob jump into an anti-air. 1xxHelios seems a good idea indeed, to anti-air with the fastest normal after they jum pover the parry. Thxs again

You're welcome!
Sometimes it might be better to be just a bit farther than that.
Standing 1 and B+1 are Kratos' best anti-air tools. What B+1 has over St.1 is that it has a large horizontal and vertical hitbox, whereas St.1 is quick, but lacks vertical range.

 

[huh]

I've been having quite a hard time against Liu Kang and that low starter combo of his. The guys keep spamming that, and I can only crouch block, and nothing I tried to do properly interrupts thats. Any advice? is it possible to interrupt the combo with a parry after the first low kick?

 

[Alien Substance]

I've been having quite a hard time against Liu Kang and that low starter combo of his. The guys keep spamming that, and I can only crouch block, and nothing I tried to do properly interrupts thats. Any advice? is it possible to interrupt the combo with a parry after the first low kick?

Liu Kang is one of Kratos' hard matchups, mainly due to that 10-frame B+3,1,2 string. No, it cannot be interrupted by the Golden Fleece at all.
Best advice I can give you here is to backpedal when he gets close enough to you. If he tries to B+3,1,2 and the first kick whiffs, you should quickly whiff-punish him with 1xxHelios~F+4,2~F+4,2(hold 2),4 for at least 38%. Be wary: if you're still very close to him when he whiffs B+3, you might get hit by the B+3,1,2 part of the string, in that case, just parry!

If they go YOLO and blindly rush you down, you may be able to get them out of your face with an EX Hermes Dash (multi-hit armor), but don't use it carelessly, as it's very unsafe on block.

Against a competant Liu Kang player, Kratos has his work cut out for him. Counter-zoning Liu Kang's fireballs with the parry is also a guessing game; on a read, the other player may use a Dragon Kick as you parry a fireball from around full-screen, and if he chooses to take the risk with the Dragon Kick, he may just hit Kratos before the golden projectile even comes out.

 

[huh]

Liu Kang is one of Kratos' hard matchups, mainly due to that 10-frame B+3,1,2 string. No, it cannot be interrupted by the Golden Fleece at all.
Best advice I can give you here is to backpedal when he gets close enough to you. If he tries to B+3,1,2 and the first kick whiffs, you should quickly whiff-punish him with 1xxHelios~F+4,2~F+4,2(hold 2),4 for at least 38%. Be wary: if you're still very close to him when he whiffs B+3, you might get hit by the B+3,1,2 part of the string, in that case, just parry!

If they go YOLO and blindly rush you down, you may be able to get them out of your face with an EX Hermes Dash (multi-hit armor), but don't use it carelessly, as it's very unsafe on block.

Against a competant Liu Kang player, Kratos has his work cut out for him. Counter-zoning Liu Kang's fireballs with the parry is also a guessing game; on a read, the other player may use a Dragon Kick as you parry a fireball from around full-screen, and if he chooses to take the risk with the Dragon Kick, he may just hit Kratos before the golden projectile even comes out.

Thanks man. It seems that Kratos really has to work uphill on this MU

Is it possible, after crouch blocking the first B3,1,2 string, to back dash or jump backwards before he starts another one?

 

[Alien Substance]

Thanks man. It seems that Kratos really has to work uphill on this MU
Is it possible, after crouch blocking the first B3,1,2 string, to back dash or jump backwards before he starts another one?

No problem.
Yep, it's pretty tough against a Liu Kang player who knows his stuff.

I don't believe so, but I haven't thought of a risky maneuver like dashing backwards after B+3,1,2, as it leaves both fighters at neutral frames. Kratos' backdash doesn't seem to cover a lot of distance, and it takes 21 frames just to finish the whole back dash duration.

I'm sure Kratos can jump out, but it's hazardous: a follow-up standing 2 will catch a jump out attempt, and you might get caught if he does his next B+3, to-the-frame....but I can't be too certain of that.

 

[huh]

Hi guys, is Reptile 's charge punishable? I confess I can only play online, and was never able to punish that move with kratos.

 

[Alien Substance]

Hi guys, is Reptile 's charge punishable? I confess I can only play online, and was never able to punish that move with kratos.

Of course. However, it is very difficult, seeing as you only have two frames to get out standing 1 or 2 into Helios Head.
Reptile's Dash is -15 on block, Kratos' standing 1 and 2 have twelve startup frames, and it takes a frame to let go of block.

If that's not manageable, you can always use a throw on Reptile. All throws have ten startup frames, but they can be teched.

 

[huh]

Hi guys, I have some doubt regarding punishing the most hard-punishable teleports (ie those ones where the character doesn't turn into a ball). I have some strategies I would like to submit for your analysis:

Scorpion EX-Teleport: parry before last hit into combo

Kung Lao Teleport (3 or whatever): usually, dash forward and punish the whiff with b1~helios into combo. My question: sometimes I don't have time to dash away. Do I have any option without dashing away from it or I have to block it an take the follow-up chip?

Kug Lao EX-Teleport: I don't know how to punish. Ideas?

Mileena Teleport (all) - Block, then d1~helios into combo. If I'm not mistaken it works even when she does the instant projectile, and after the ex-telport too.

Raiden Teleport: That's hard, and I'm trying to jump back 2 (jip). I don't know if it's possible to do some other thing like 21~helios. Is it? Sometimes I use D4~Helios on a read when I see Raiden always initiating combos right after the teleport and it catches them off guard. But when it doesn't I'm in trouble Any adice regarding punishing Raiden's teleport with Kratos would be welcome.

Raiden Ex-Teleport: any ideas?

Cyrax teleport: D4~helios catches them in the air.

Quan-chi Teleport by your side: this one is hard for me. I'm aways holding block in case they teleport on my head, and when I see it happening in front of me I don't know if there is time to release block and do something. They always initiate their combos before me. Ideas?

Sheeva Teleport over you head: I usually time a B2 to catch them in the air. Or it would be better to dash/walk away and try some combo? Which one?

Sheeva Teleport beside you: What to do? Same as quan-chi's

Smoke whiffed air Teleport: d1~helios. Other better options?

Fred Krueger Teleport towards/away: I just Hermes Rush into it when I see the animation.

Rain and Skarlet: not much MU experience. How do I punish theirs?

For all the others, I block and when they turn into a ball I either F42, 1~helios etc.. for damage, or F42(hold)4 to make it easy. I've been trying, when with meter, to do 1~ex bow, 1~helios etc.. but I don't know if it works with every character...

Can you help me optimize my teleport punishments?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Alien Substance]

Hi guys, I have some doubt regarding punishing the most hard-punishable teleports (ie those ones where the character doesn't turn into a ball). I have some strategies I would like to submit for your analysis:

Scorpion EX-Teleport: parry before last hit into combo

Yeah, that's good.

Kung Lao Teleport (3 or whatever): usually, dash forward and punish the whiff with b1~helios into combo. My question: sometimes I don't have time to dash away. Do I have any option without dashing away from it or I have to block it an take the follow-up chip?

You could try to D1 into Helios right as he pops up from the other side.

Kug Lao EX-Teleport: I don't know how to punish. Ideas?

I have no idea, either. Maybe EX Hermes Dash right when the armor should wear off? Timing depends on the teleport attack.

Mileena Teleport (all) - Block, then d1~helios into combo. If I'm not mistaken it works even when she does the instant projectile, and after the ex-telport too.

I prefer standing 1 into Helios for the Roll and normal Teleport, since it scales less than D1.

Raiden Teleport: That's hard, and I'm trying to jump back 2 (jip). I don't know if it's possible to do some other thing like 21~helios. Is it? Sometimes I use D4~Helios on a read when I see Raiden always initiating combos right after the teleport and it catches them off guard. But when it doesn't I'm in trouble Any adice regarding punishing Raiden's teleport with Kratos would be welcome.

You could try to initiate pressure with 1,1,2xxHDC if you don't feel safe with doing D4xxHelios. Standing 1 has the same startup frames as D4, so you could use that instead of D4 for linking into Helios (1xxHelios is a true combo). If both D4 and Standing 1 are to fail and get blocked, they both have the same damaging result.

Raiden Ex-Teleport: any ideas?

Like the above, but you hope that you catch them on the correct side if they cancel the EX Tele.

Cyrax teleport: D4~helios catches them in the air.

I use Standing 1xxHelios, and sometimes B1xxHelios for that bit of extra damage.

Quan-chi Teleport by your side: this one is hard for me. I'm aways holding block in case they teleport on my head, and when I see it happening in front of me I don't know if there is time to release block and do something. They always initiate their combos before me. Ideas?

I tend to walk back and block when I see the teleport. If he tries landing from behind or above, I will have blocked the teleport due to moving from the position Quan Chi was tracking (move forward to block the front tele). For the front, perhaps you could try to D1xxZeus' Rage if they consistently beat out your attacks? You gotta think fast when you see him teleport in front.

Sheeva Teleport over you head: I usually time a B2 to catch them in the air. Or it would be better to dash/walk away and try some combo? Which one?

That's a good idea!
You could dash, or you could armor through with an EX HDC flash parry.

Sheeva Teleport beside you: What to do? Same as quan-chi's

Hope your attack is faster than her's, and that she doesn't jump over you.
It's all a guessing game if the opponent likes to teleport in lag and stuff.

Smoke whiffed air Teleport: d1~helios. Other better options?

Standing 1xxHelios, sometimes. It scales better than D1xxHelios.

Fred Krueger Teleport towards/away: I just Hermes Rush into it when I see the animation.

I don't really know how to fight it, man.

Rain and Skarlet: not much MU experience. How do I punish theirs?

Skarlet's teleport is -12 on block. Seeing as how you need one frame to unblock, you can't use standing 1xxHelios to punish with a full combo. You could try to throw, or try to start pressure with 1,1,2xxHDC or something.
You gotta treat Rain's teleport like a faster Cyrax teleport. It is harder to punish, yes.

For all the others, I block and when they turn into a ball I either F42, 1~helios etc.. for damage, or F42(hold)4 to make it easy. I've been trying, when with meter, to do 1~ex bow, 1~helios etc.. but I don't know if it works with every character...

The 1xxEX Bow, 1xxHelios meter combo should work on every character. If there is a character that it does not work on, I have no knowledge of it.

 

[huh]

Yeah, that's good.

You could try to D1 into Helios right as he pops up from the other side.

(KL)

And that works for all his tele options or does it whiff when he goes for a grab or overhead?

I prefer standing 1 into Helios for the Roll and normal Teleport, since it scales less than D1.

(Mileena)

And when Mileena does the normal teleport into the air-projectile, does 1 still works after blocking both? So I can be sure that I have time to hit 1 before she hits the ground. I've been doing d1 because I was not sure about that and d1 is faster. But it would be nice to know I can do 1 no matter if they do the projectile after a regular teleport.

You could try to initiate pressure with 1,1,2xxHDC if you don't feel safe with doing D4xxHelios. Standing 1 has the same startup frames as D4, so you could use that instead of D4 for linking into Helios (1xxHelios is a true combo). If both D4 and Standing 1 are to fail and get blocked, they both have the same damaging result.

(Raiden)

Thanks! 112~HDC seems fine. Is there enough recovery frame to do 1~helios after Raidens regular teleport, if I have the reactions to do it?

I use Standing 1xxHelios, and sometimes B1xxHelios for that bit of extra damage.

(Cyrax)

Man, your reactions are way better than mine. lol

I tend to walk back and block when I see the teleport. If he tries landing from behind or above, I will have blocked the teleport due to moving from the position Quan Chi was tracking (move forward to block the front tele). For the front, perhaps you could try to D1xxZeus' Rage if they consistently beat out your attacks? You gotta think fast when you see him teleport in front.

Great! I just walk back or dash back?

The 1xxEX Bow, 1xxHelios meter combo should work on every character. If there is a character that it does not work on, I have no knowledge of it.

Thanks a lot AlienSubstance! I'll try to put that in practice. Too bad that the training mode doesn't allow me to practice it accordingly. It's hard to find offline partners here in Brazil, so almost all MU experience I get is from online and sometimes I never know if I'm missing something due to lack of available frames or due to lag. Your help is highly appreciated!

PS: I forgot about CSZ. I guess is the same as Cyrax's right?
PS2: Can we punish CSZ dive kick?

 

[Alien Substance]

And that works for all his tele options or does it whiff when he goes for a grab or overhead?

You're supposed to time it so that it hits him before he can even get any attack out.
In the instance he gets an overhead out, I think D1 will whiff. For the grab, I'm not too sure, but I think a D1 should hit him.

And when Mileena does the normal teleport into the air-projectile, does 1 still works after blocking both? So I can be sure that I have time to hit 1 before she hits the ground. I've been doing d1 because I was not sure about that and d1 is faster. But it would be nice to know I can do 1 no matter if they do the projectile after a regular teleport.

Excuse my lack of details. No, I don't think standing one works if she does an aerial Sai after a blocked teleport.

If Mileena does an EX Teleport, crouch-block the second hit of the teleport so that you can get a D1 out faster after she does an aerial Sai.

Thanks! 112~HDC seems fine. Is there enough recovery frame to do 1~helios after Raidens regular teleport, if I have the reactions to do it?

Yeah, he has nineteen frames of recovery when he teleports behind you. Just watch out for the frame advantage when Raiden cancels a string into a teleport: you may be at a frame disadvantage after certain strings are canceled into a tele.

Man, your reactions are way better than mine. lol

The B1 just usually hits Cyrax out of anything he tries to do, except blocking.

Great! I just walk back or dash back?

Whichever you feel more comfortable with! Kratos' walk speed is pretty good.

Thanks a lot AlienSubstance! I'll try to put that in practice. Too bad that the training mode doesn't allow me to practice it accordingly. It's hard to find offline partners here in Brazil, so almost all MU experience I get is from online and sometimes I never know if I'm missing something due to lack of available frames or due to lag. Your help is highly appreciated!

You're welcome!
Yeah, hopefully MK10's practice mode is better.
I'm happy to help my fellow Kratos players.

PS: I forgot about CSZ. I guess is the same as Cyrax's right?
PS2: Can we punish CSZ dive kick?

Yes, only it's easier to punish his teleports.
If the Dive-Kick is blocked from the head or shoulders, you can punish it with 1xxHelios. You may not be able to combo-punish him if you block a Dive-Kick from the chest or shins, but you may be able to check him with 1,1,2xxHDC. If you're feeling dangerous, you could try to parry it!

 

[JustNOW]

I disagree about Kano MU (i have good pokes, low starter, and cannonball for mobility). And i still wait for your new videos! Why did you stop upload?

 

[Pearl Monnkey]

Kano beats Kratos like most characters beat him.

 

[Alien Substance]

Kano beats Kratos like most characters beat him.

You misplaced the words "Kratos" and "Kano" in your sentence.

I disagree about Kano MU (i have good pokes, low starter, and cannonball for mobility). And i still wait for your new videos! Why did you stop upload?

Kano has horrible time against a defensive Kratos. Golden Fleece counters Kano's knife zoning, a whiffed aerial cannonball has enough recovery frames for Kratos to dash in with a 38%+ combo, and there are a bunch of gaps in Kano's strings for Kratos to exploit with the Golden Fleece (even the low starter string). It is dangerous for Kano to pressure him for fear of the parry and its 50% combo opportunities; Kano will need all the meter he can get for breakers. Kratos also has a good walk speed for moving in and out.

I'm sorry to disappoint: The USB stick I used for recording is no longer in my possession, and I have lost interest in the recording thing altogether.

 

[JustNOW]

Kano has horrible time against a defensive Kratos. Golden Fleece counters Kano's knife zoning, a whiffed aerial cannonball has enough recovery frames for Kratos to dash in with a 38%+ combo, and there are a bunch of gaps in Kano's strings for Kratos to exploit with the Golden Fleece (even the low starter string). It is dangerous for Kano to pressure him for fear of the parry and its 50% combo opportunities; Kano will need all the meter he can get for breakers. Kratos also has a good walk speed for moving in and out.

i dont know about that, kano have other tools against kratos... need play to prove that, because i also can do whiff ball tactics against kratos, and then punish kratos..

I'm sorry to disappoint: The USB stick I used for recording is no longer in my possession, and I have lost interest in the recording thing altogether.

oh it too sad i always loved watch ur fights.. Maybe you should think about returning?

 

[Pearl Monnkey]

You misplaced the words "Kratos" and "Kano" in your sentence.
Kano has horrible time against a defensive Kratos. Golden Fleece counters Kano's knife zoning, a whiffed aerial cannonball has enough recovery frames for Kratos to dash in with a 38%+ combo, and there are a bunch of gaps in Kano's strings for Kratos to exploit with the Golden Fleece (even the low starter string). It is dangerous for Kano to pressure him for fear of the parry and its 50% combo opportunities; Kano will need all the meter he can get for breakers. Kratos also has a good walk speed for moving in and out.

I'm sorry to disappoint: The USB stick I used for recording is no longer in my possession, and I have lost interest in the recording thing altogether.

His low starter rapes anything Kratos has. Downball anytime Kratos does arrows. Also, he can throw a knife and down ball on reaction. [/Game]

B112 is the most under-rated combo string in the game.

 

[Alien Substance]

His low starter rapes anything Kratos has. Downball anytime Kratos does arrows. Also, he can throw a knife and down ball on reaction.

B112 is the most under-rated combo string in the game.

The follow-up to the low starter can be parried mid-string if blocked, and if Kano decides to mix up the follow-up, it's all part of the yomi so Kratos does have a chance. A smart Kratos does not throw out Arrows carelessly if he knows that the opponent has options against it. Yeah, Kano beats an aggressive Kratos. Defensive, not really.

I cannot say anything about Kano's B112.

 

[Pearl Monnkey]

The follow-up to the low starter can be parried mid-string if blocked, and if Kano decides to mix up the follow-up, it's all part of the yomi so Kratos does have a chance. A smart Kratos does not throw out Arrows carelessly if he knows that the opponent has options against it. Yeah, Kano beats an aggressive Kratos. Defensive, not really.

I cannot say anything about Kano's B112.

Yup, use illogical reasoning dude. The problem with a lot of MK players and fighting game players in general is they go based off frame data 100%. You gotta remember reaction speed. Also, Kratos has horrible frame data, so once you get in he's done for. Take dat!

 

[Alien Substance]

Yup, use illogical reasoning dude. The problem with a lot of MK players and fighting game players in general is they go based off frame data 100%. You gotta remember reaction speed. Also, Kratos has horrible frame data, so once you get in he's done for. Take dat!

"Illogical reasoning"? Please, I'm just stating that Kratos is not helpless; Kratos does have options, and he does not have to play foolishly.
Seems to me that you're basing your arguments on the poor frame data of Kratos compared to Kano's, plus reaction speed. Yeah, reactions can be fast, too, and even faster when the next move is anticipated.

Kratos has options once Kano gets in, such as a well-timed D1, a parry, armor with EX Hermes Dash. Of course, Kano can poke Kratos all day long, and that allows Kano an opportunity to pressure, but that would be dangerous due to the possibility of the parry and +48% damage it brings. Kano can keep poking to avoid the parry, but that may leave him vulnerable to getting jumped over. Kratos may jump over, but Kano has a pokexxUp Ball. Kano may have a pokexxUp Ball, but Kratos can anticipate it, block and punish. If Kano continues to poke him with D1 or D3, Kratos can block those and do D1 into Zeus' Rage; which will hit Kano out of anything else he tries to do due to the block disadvantage of his pokes.
I'm sure there are other situations similar to these. It's all part of the mind games of Kombat, Mr. Monnkey. Kratos has a chance because his frame data is not the end of him: the Kratos player makes reads, anticipates the Kano player's next move, punishes mistakes with hefty damage.

I can engage in Theory Kombat all day, but in the end, it does not matter at all. This is just some argument about a banned character that has no relevance in the tournament scene.
"Then why do you keep going on about Kratos doing well against Kano, foo'?"
Because I speak as a dedicated Kratos main, in spite of the fact he is banned. Do you have experience playing as Kratos? I'd be glad to help you out with him, in that case! If not, then what do you base your arguments on? Experience playing against other Kratos players? Videos of outdated Kratos gameplay? Assumptions that come from what you know of his frame data?

 

[JustNOW]

all what i said its because kano has huge disadvantage looking your tierlist(8-2 or 7-3), thats all what i talking about...

I disagree about Kano MU (i have good pokes, low starter, and cannonball for mobility).

also in these fights, i show how exactly i use cannonball in really bad MUs (i know that player not great but still)