Kratos Frame Data

[STRYKIE]

How to understand this.
Execution (singular | cumulative)
1 - 12
1,1 - 22 | 35
1,1,2 - 18 | 56
2 - 12
2,1 - 19 | 32
2,1,2 - 33 | 66
3 - 16
4 - 17
D+1 - 8
D+2 - 20
D+3 - 13
D+4 - 12
B+1 - 21
B+1,2 - 25 | 54
B+1,B+4 - 25 | 54
B+2 - 21
B+2,1 - 15 | 111
B+2,2 - 23 | 119
B+2,3 - 11 | 107
B+2,4 - 8 | 104
B+4 - 25
F+1 - 23
F+1,4 - 23 | 48
F+2 - 30
F+2,1 - 21 | 54
F+2,2 - 31 | 64
F+2,2,1 - 16 | 79
F+4 - 13
F+4,2 - 21 | 41
Throw - 10
Apollo's Bow - 25 first hit, 36 second hit
Apollo's Bow (full screen) - 47 first hit, 58 second hit
Head Of Helios - 23
Hermes Dash - 25-145
Hermes Dash (full screen) - 41-161
Golden Fleece - 1 frame start up, 28 active frames
Zeus's Rage - 17
Apollo's Inferno - 20 first hit, 31 second hit, 40 third hit
Apollo's Inferno (full screen) - 41 first hit, 53 second hit, 63 third hit
Helios Flash - 49
Hermes Rush - 25-145
Hermes Rush (full screen) - 41-161
Argos Ram - 1 frame start up, 28 active frames
Revenge Of Olympus - 17
Nemean Cestus - 19

Advantage (block | hit)
1 - 0 | 0
1,1 - 0 | +4
1,1,2 - 0 | +10
2 - -1 | +5
2,1 - 0 | +6
2,1,2 - -12 | +37, +26
3 - -9 | +4
4 - -10 | +38, +25
D+1 - -19 | -5
D+1 (vs crouch) - -19 | -7
D+2 - +6 | +43, +36
D+3 - -14 | -4
D+3 (vs crouch) - -14 | +3
D+4 - 0 | +12
D+4 (vs crouch) - 0 | +5
B+1 - -2 | +8
B+1,2 - -20 | +7, -53
B+1,B+4 - 0 | +25, +17
B+2 - -9 | +36, +43 (+30, +18 if held)
B+4 - 0 | +25, +17
F+1 - 0 | +3
F+1,4 - -40 | +6, -26
F+2 - -5 | +11
F+2,1 - -2 | +37, +24
F+2,2 - 0 | +7
F+2,2,1 - -33 | +8, 0
F+4 - -5 | +4
F+4,2 - -9 | +36, +43
Forward Throw - N/A | +7
Backward Throw - N/A | +8
Apollo's Bow - -1 | +18
Apollo's Bow (full screen) - +21 | +44
Head Of Helios - -28 | +34
Hermes Dash - -47 | +5, -6
Hermes Dash (full screen) - -31 | +21, +10
Zeus's Rage - -15 | +26, +34 (+18, -10 with follow up)
Apollo's Inferno - +3 | +13
Apollo's Inferno (full screen) - +16 | +38
Helios Flash - -21 | +102
Hermes Rush - -47 | +5, -6
Hermes Rush (full screen) - -31 | +21, +10
Revenge Of Olympus - -15 | +26, +34 (+18, -10 with first follow up, +7, +11 with second)
Nemean Cestus - -7 | +7

​

Duration (whiff | block | hit)
1 - 32 | 32 | 32
1,1 - 55 | 55 | 55
1,1,2 - 79 | 79 | 79
2 - 40 | 40 | 40
2,1 - 59 | 59 | 59
2,1,2 - 105 | 105 | 105
3 - 45 | 45 | 45
4 - 47 | 47 | 47
D+1 - 33 | 33 | 33
D+2 - 47 | 41 | 61
D+3 - 33 | 33 | 33
D+4 - 33 | 33 | 33
B+1 - 50 | 50 | 50
B+1,2 - 101 | 101 | 197
B+1,B+4 - 80 | 80 | 80
B+2 - 57 | 57 | 57 (136 if held)
B+2,1 - N/A | N/A | 156
B+2,2 - N/A | N/A | 156
B+2,3 - N/A | N/A | 153
B+2,4 - N/A | N/A | 210
B+4 - 51 | 51 | 51
F+1 - 49 | 49 | 49
F+1,4 - 108 | 108 | 108
F+2 - 62 | 62 | 62
F+2,1 - 83 | 83 | 83
F+2,2 - 81 | 81 | 81
F+2,2,1 - 139 | 139 | 139
F+4 - 38 | 38 | 38
F+4,2 - 77 | 77 | 77
Forward Throw - 39 | N/A | 246
Backward Throw - 39 | N/A | 209
Apollo's Bow - 57 | 57 | 57
Head Of Helios - 78 | 78 | 78
Hermes Dash - 18-212 (92 no hold/cancel) | 92-212 | 92-212
Golden Fleece - 46 | N/A | 57-97
Zeus's Rage - 52 | 52 | 175 (259 with follow up)
Apollo's Inferno - 57 | 57 | 57
Helios Flash - 97 | 97 | 97
Hermes Rush - 18-212 (92 no hold/cancel) | 92-212 | 92-212
Argos Ram - 46 | N/A | 57-102
Revenge Of Olympus - 52 | 52 | 175 (305 with first follow up, 423 with second)
Nemean Cestus - 53 | 53 | 477 (ignoring lag)

​

Cancel Advantage (block | hit)
1 - +26 | +25
1,1 - +24 | +21
1,1,2 - +26 | +32
2 - +26 | +32
2,1 - +26 | +32
2,1,2 - +27 | +76, +65
3 - +28 | +31
D+1 - +1 | +15
D+1 (vs crouch) - +1 | +13
D+3 - +3 | +13
D+3 (vs crouch) - +3 | +20
D+4 - +26 | +32
D+4 (vs crouch) - +26 | +25
B+1 - +19 | +29
F+1 - +25 | +27
F+2 - +24 | +40
F+2,2 - +28 | +25
F+2,2,1 - +1 | +42, +34
F+4 - +13 | +23

​

Miscellaneous
Breaker (when grounded vs grounded opponent) - ~+23, ~+22
Nemean Cestus - invincibility on frames 1-2, armor on frames 3-33

​

​

(Recovered from the August 2012 threads before the TYM crash and loss of data, all credit goes to Somberness)

 

[DragonPick]

Woot!

 

[Z-911-Z]

Man, I wish Kratos was allowed in tournament. )=

 

[Somberness]

Thanks for posting this, even though I still had all the information. I was just unable to repost it earlier.

 

[Alien Substance]

I was wondering if I should've posted it myself. Oh well, thanks to Somberness for collecting this data, and thanks to STRYKIE for reposting this.

 

[Qwark28]

STRYKIE

good job on dem likes nigga

No problem. Yeah I would've left it up to one of you guys but since we're on borrowed time to get what we can back, I figured I might aswell get it up ASAP.

LBSH, this guy's d3 is almost twice as slow as mine and it's still at advantage on hit. I gotta redeem myself somehow.

least your d1 is good,mine cant crossup aa for shit.

i also picked up scorpion,been playing him for a long time and decided to have him as a tertiary,you up for some fights later?

 

[STRYKIE]

Thanks for posting this, even though I still had all the information. I was just unable to repost it earlier.

I was wondering if I should've posted it myself. Oh well, thanks to Somberness for collecting this data, and thanks to STRYKIE for reposting this.

No problem. Yeah I would've left it up to one of you guys but since we're on borrowed time to get what we can back, I figured I might aswell get it up ASAP.

STRYKIE

good job on dem likes nigga

LBSH, this guy's d3 is almost twice as slow as mine and it's still at advantage on hit. I gotta redeem myself somehow.

 

[Seapeople]

Wow Kratos is pretty horrible outside of slide cancels.
Shouldn't 112~slide cancel be able to combo into another string since it's +14 on hit?

 

[STRYKIE]

least your d1 is good,mine cant crossup aa for shit.

i also picked up scorpion,been playing him for a long time and decided to have him as a tertiary,you up for some fights later?

I guess so. I need to see if my Kenshi's leveled up or whether it's just online hampering him. So yeah, hit me up tomorrow. (well, A few hours or so but you get the idea.)

Also, was it you that was having trouble with doing D1~Spear? I think I found an easier alternative by accident lol.

 

[Alien Substance]

Wow Kratos is pretty horrible outside of slide cancels.
Shouldn't 112~slide cancel be able to combo into another string since it's +14 on hit?

Kratos is not built for an offensive playstyle like Johnny Cage, Liu Kang, or Cyber Sub-Zero. He is made to capitalize on his opponent's mistakes, making reads, and punishing hard with his high-damage combos. A generally patient, defensive and evasive style of play is needed to have more success with him. While Kratos is capable of an offensive in-your-face playstyle, it is not his strength due to his slow normals and specials.

1,1,2~Hermes Dash Cancel does not connect into another string because you have to take into account the number of frames it takes to activate the Hermes Dash, the dash-cancel, and the startup frames of the next attack. That, and even if 1,1,2 was about +40, the string does not render the opponent unable to block the next attack. Like the situation with Liu Kang's F+4 being +14 on hit and standing 2 being 8 frames, but they do not truly link into a combo.

 

[Seapeople]

Kratos is not built for an offensive playstyle like Johnny Cage, Liu Kang, or Cyber Sub-Zero. He is made to capitalize on his opponent's mistakes, making reads, and punishing hard with his high-damage combos. A generally patient, defensive and evasive style of play is needed to have more success with him. While Kratos is capable of an offensive in-your-face playstyle, it is not his strength due to his slow normals and specials.

1,1,2~Hermes Dash Cancel does not connect into another string because you have to take into account the number of frames it takes to activate the Hermes Dash, the dash-cancel, and the startup frames of the next attack. That, and even if 1,1,2 was about +40, the string does not render the opponent unable to block the next attack.

He doesn't have to be offensive for his frame data to be important...his pokes are rather awful.
Seems like he would be an offensive character though, at least to a degree, since so many of his slide dash cancel strings leave him at huge advantage on block.

But then again, it's Kratos so who knows

Like the situation with Liu Kang's F+4 being +14 on hit and standing 2 being 8 frames, but they do not truly link into a combo.

That makes sense I suppose.

 

[Alien Substance]

He doesn't have to be offensive for his frame data to be important...his pokes are rather awful.
Seems like he would be an offensive character though, at least to a degree, since so many of his slide dash cancel strings leave him at huge advantage on block.

But then again, it's Kratos so who knows

That makes sense I suppose.

Indeed, they are quite bad. But with the great Hermes Boots earned by amputating the legs of Hermes, these pokes are made better! Hermes Dash Cancel the D+4, and you got a good poke that simply requires more execution than everyone else! Not sure if the same applies to his D+1, though. I don't even think D+3 is worth the HDC when D+4 is better.

I bet a surprise rushdown with HDCs will allow him to play an offensive style. The Element of Surprise can do wonders!

 

[Qwark28]

I guess so. I need to see if my Kenshi's leveled up or whether it's just online hampering him. So yeah, hit me up tomorrow. (well, A few hours or so but you get the idea.)

Also, was it you that was having trouble with doing D1~Spear? I think I found an easier alternative by accident lol.

i perfected le technique,wasn't good for much anyways lol

 

[RunwayMafia]

So Krys9984 and I are doing a video for Jade on when to EN Glow during block strings. What strings for Kratos do you know FOR SURE have gaps? Somberness anyone?

 

[Alien Substance]

So Krys9984 and I are doing a video for Jade on when to EN Glow during block strings. What strings for Kratos do you know FOR SURE have gaps? Somberness anyone?

Very sure 2,1,2 has a gap before the second hits in the string. People have jumped out of that string after blocking the first two hits, then attempted to hit me with a JIP punch. If Kratos and his opponent are at point-blank touching range, the last hit will whiff.

(BTW, in your quest to improve the general usage of Glow for Jade, you are indirectly helping out Cyber Subby and Kratos; their Parry specials have one-frame startups as well. Though this only applies to gaps before high-hitting attacks in strings)

 

[Roko1985]

No problem. Yeah I would've left it up to one of you guys but since we're on borrowed time to get what we can back, I figured I might aswell get it up ASAP.


LBSH, this guy's d3 is almost twice as slow as mine and it's still at advantage on hit. I gotta redeem myself somehow.

What do you mean by singular and cumulative(execution). I am sorry for the stupid question.

 

[Alien Substance]

What do you mean by singular and cumulative(execution). I am sorry for the stupid question.

Singular I presume, means the frames of the next attack in a string. Cumulative is the frames of the attacks in a string all adding up together.

 

[Axel_Redd]

what does it mean by Cumulative?

oh, nvm i read lol

 

[GambitTheFirst]

Tbh, I don't see why Kratos is always banned in tournaments. If it's a PS3 tournament then play with all the PS3 features (although the kratos stage has obvious reasons to be banned so that's fair enough). Is it just that he's banned because Xbox players aren't able to get the experience playing/using him? Because then that's just like saying for example I personally haven't bought Freddy, so I'm at a disadvantage against Freddy players, so should dlc be banned? Of course not! Because that's not anyone elses problem bar my own. It's my own fault for not buying him or taking the time play people who do have him, or to watch recorded high level freddy matches. I know obviously there's a BIG difference between the price of buying a ps3+mk9 and buying the dlc, but it is a similar concept. Fact is he's not even that good so probably wouldn't even see much play (if any at all), but it's just another factor in the game to mix it up a bit. I can understand some tournaments banning him maybe, but why is it all the time?

 

[Alien Substance]

Between you and me, Kratos is actually banned 'cause people could mistake him for Quan Chi, and when they finally know the difference, they're fucked because they already went 0-2.

If Kratos wasn't banned, I could see him being used as "sort of a counterpick" to Kabal, but I don't believe a pocket Kratos would do well against great Kabals unless the pocket Spartan was used against an Xbox player (probably does not count against the highest level of Kuh-Bawl players).
His Parry negates Darth Vader's zoning and seriously impedes his NDC pressure system. The Kabals would have to devise a new NDC pressure system specifically for Kratos.

 

[STRYKIE]

Tbh, I don't see why Kratos is always banned in tournaments. If it's a PS3 tournament then play with all the PS3 features (although the kratos stage has obvious reasons to be banned so that's fair enough). Is it just that he's banned because Xbox players aren't able to get the experience playing/using him? Because then that's just like saying for example I personally haven't bought Freddy, so I'm at a disadvantage against Freddy players, so should dlc be banned? Of course not! Because that's not anyone elses problem bar my own. It's my own fault for not buying him or taking the time play people who do have him, or to watch recorded high level freddy matches. I know obviously there's a BIG difference between the price of buying a ps3+mk9 and buying the dlc, but it is a similar concept. Fact is he's not even that good so probably wouldn't even see much play (if any at all), but it's just another factor in the game to mix it up a bit. I can understand some tournaments banning him maybe, but why is it all the time?

Just the way it's always been with console exclusive characters, both PS3 and 360 players have a way to familiarize themselves with Freddy, 360 players looking for Kratos exp. have no such option. But yeah, look back at Soul Calibur 2, circumstances were no different, was PS2 the lead platform for tournaments? Sure, didn't change the fact that the Gamecube version had ALOT of people buying it solely because Link was in it, and nobody would've had the faintest idea how to fight him. And they in turn wouldn't have known what's up with Heihachi.

Granted, I would like to see an event with Kratos legal one day, but with the amount of money that's been on the line this year, it ain't gonna be nothing more than something on the side and all in good fun, lol

 

[xInfra Deadx]

B1,2 on tech roll is very depressing...same thing w/F1,4

 

[Axel_Redd]

wait, how does f42 add up to 41 frames when f4 is 13 and the 2 is 21? wouldnt that be 34 frames total?

 

[Shadow316]

How many frames do you have after a Helios Head on hit for a F2 before they're able to block?

Also, how many frames after Zeus' Rage (miss the QTE on purpose) do you have to work with?

 

[Alien Substance]

How many frames do you have after a Helios Head on hit for a F2 before they're able to block?

Also, how many frames after Zeus' Rage (miss the QTE on purpose) do you have to work with?

Helios Head is +34 on hit, F2 has 30 startup frames: you've gotta hit F2 within three or four frames of recovering from the Head of Helios animation.

Missing the first QTE on both normal and EX Zeus' Rage will give you 26 frames of advantage, or 34 if the opponent does a tech roll.

wait, how does f42 add up to 41 frames when f4 is 13 and the 2 is 21? wouldnt that be 34 frames total?

I'm guessing that Somberness has also included the spare frames after the F4 and before the second hit's startup.