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Kitana's Brutal Shortcomings

What's good folks? Been a long time since I've posted anything in TYM lol.

But Recently I streamed a session of MK11 and went into showcasing some of the major weaknesses with our Kahnum, Kitana. It's simply gotten to the point where enough is enough and it's worth putting these problems out into the limelight. Let me know what you think and feel free to add your input. Disclaimer: This is completely unedited, highlighted directly from my stream, and of course my opinion. Anyways, Enjoy!

Also, it's worth noting that I didn't add:

B231, Quick Execution will not connect on any female characters at midscreen
S4 changes that should have been brought up (Needs to be faster)

 

xWildx

What a day. What a lovely day.
I was told she was top 5 by a former top player who seems to only be able to get games against people who never block razors into d3.
 
I can feel your frustration ... she's sooo messed up in this installment. Boring to watch, ineffective, repetitive gameplay strategy ... huh ... it pisses me off on so many levels. Why did they make her like this ??? In order to let boring-ass Jacqui shine ??? To make room for Jade and Sindel ??? They put so little effort and creativity when it comes to Kitana , it sickens me :( She's a fan favourite, for God's sake. She deserves a much more decent treatment.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Can someone give me the cliff note version? This video is 30 mins long lol
Starcharger wants less scaling on fatal blow, a larger hitbox on f+2, b+3,4 to launch, block advantage on 2,1, a 10 frame b+1 with a larger hitbox, faster d+1 with less recovery on block, more range on d+3, and a couple of other buffs.

He also says that Kitana loses 6:4 to Geras because d+1 is slow and Highborn is overrated because all you have to is stand block the razors.

You already know where I stand so I am refusing to make any more elaborated posts in this sub-forum.
 
Starcharger wants less scaling on fatal blow (Correct To an Extent), a larger hitbox on f+2 (Correct. However it needs to be expanded downward since it's scooping), b+3,4 to launch (Correct. To launch Vertically instead of Horizontally), block advantage on 2,1 (Correct. And for S2 to start up in 8~9 frames & for 21434 to become special cancellable for her air specials), a 10 frame b+1 with a larger hitbox (Correct on the frames, not so much on the hitbox), faster d+1 with less recovery on block (Correct), more range on d+3 (Not Really. I was pointing out how stubby it is in spite of it's 7f startup, it's range hardly helps at times) , and a couple of other buffs.

Those other things:

  • HighBorn: Give HB Stance ->Sai Stab an amplified Version that pops up for a combo (Not mentioned in the vid. Akin to the KB version.)
  • Fearless: Let the Edenian Twister KB remain in tact in the subsequent rounds after the condition has been fulfilled in a prior round. (She shouldn't lose a KB for the remainder of a game for doing something right)
  • F234 to have Krushing Blow Gravity adjusted to match all other KB Popups in the game (Not mentioned in the video. Quality of Life Change & Wishful Thinking)
  • B231434 becoming Plus or neutral on block instead of -7 (Not Mentioned in vid. Quality of Life change akin to Sindel's B3 string)
  • S4 startup decreased (To 9~10f. Not mentioned in vid )
  • B2 strings to have some kind of change that doesn't leave her up sh*t's creek on a breakaway after you tag someone in mid air using it to follow up a frame trap (Quality of Life & Wishful thinking change)
Add Throw KB's (Not Mentioned in vid. Quality of Life & Wishful Thinking change)


He also says that Kitana loses 6:4 to Geras because d+1 is slow (I said that it was one of the core reasons. Not the exact/only reason) and Highborn is overrated because all you have to is stand block the razors (Mainly true for B14 and a couple of other strings). .

You already know where I stand so I am refusing to make any more elaborated posts in this sub-forum.
I put in my $.02 Mr. Dave. Thanks for covering on that & watching the whole thing. I forgot to also put my cliffs in here for folks to read.
 

xWildx

What a day. What a lovely day.
Watched the entire video. Honestly? I detect no lies. Everything said was true lol

Kitana is lacking. Anyone that thinks otherwise, especially after watching this... I really don’t know what to tell you.
 

xWildx

What a day. What a lovely day.
they are plus when done right.
Which was explained in the video. Even still, being +1 against people with 6 frame pokes doesn’t mean much, does it? You trade or have to be frame perfect. Fortunately, due to Kitana’s design, neither player knows wtf is going on.

Now see yourself out.
 

exflyingbooty

This dream has a sad ending
Which was explained in the video. Even still, being +1 against people with 6 frame pokes doesn’t mean much, does it? You trade or have to be frame perfect. Fortunately, due to Kitana’s design, neither player knows wtf is going on.
but you can grab d+1's after +1 because the throw hitboxes make so much sense lmao

man, i just fucking hate this game.
 

gitblame

Noob
I can accept pokes being her weakness. B1 being 13 frames and not being able to fan fando in fearless midscreen after anything except B14. Still - even now with all this issues - I find Kitana good character. Not well-rounded, but still good.

But yeah, some of the dial up strings are straight up useless. Why would I use any of 21222 or 21434 if they start after 13 frame high, when I have 13 frame mid that gives me better damage on hit and better frames on block? I never really understood why standing 2 is 13f. Its range is worse than standing 1, it's only +1 and has shitty hitbox. If it was faster Kitana would have access to another practical punisher and those strings could find some utility. I like the idea of 21434 being special cancelable into air special. You could even make it unsafe - she does not need another safe strings.
The same situation with standing 3 and followup strings. 32 is only useful in super specific combos in Fan-fare (like after D2 KB). Standing 3 has no range, no plus frames and it's 12 f. Why would I use it if I have B1 with better range and frames? Personally I would like to make 3212 leaving oponnents standing and being special cancelable.

And from my point of view, those changes would not really make Kitana anything near broken. Just a little more well rounded and interesting.
 

DarkSado

Noob
I can accept pokes being her weakness. B1 being 13 frames and not being able to fan fando in fearless midscreen after anything except B14. Still - even now with all this issues - I find Kitana good character. Not well-rounded, but still good.

But yeah, some of the dial up strings are straight up useless. Why would I use any of 21222 or 21434 if they start after 13 frame high, when I have 13 frame mid that gives me better damage on hit and better frames on block? I never really understood why standing 2 is 13f. Its range is worse than standing 1, it's only +1 and has shitty hitbox. If it was faster Kitana would have access to another practical punisher and those strings could find some utility. I like the idea of 21434 being special cancelable into air special. You could even make it unsafe - she does not need another safe strings.
The same situation with standing 3 and followup strings. 32 is only useful in super specific combos in Fan-fare (like after D2 KB). Standing 3 has no range, no plus frames and it's 12 f. Why would I use it if I have B1 with better range and frames? Personally I would like to make 3212 leaving oponnents standing and being special cancelable.

And from my point of view, those changes would not really make Kitana anything near broken. Just a little more well rounded and interesting.
yea I don't know why she have the most moves in the game but three only useful like b1, b231 (sometimes) and F231.
 

John_NX

Your circumstances are dire!
I agree with everything posted in this thread! I've been planning to make a thread on how you can fix kitana but to be quite honest...I'm afraid if I receive any backlash from the site and people telling me that "I'm downplaying".
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
I agree with everything posted in this thread! I've been planning to make a thread on how you can fix kitana but to be quite honest...I'm afraid if I receive any backlash from the site and people telling me that "I'm downplaying".
Well that's almost a guarantee, but if you believe something to be true and necessary to say, you should say it.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Watched the entire video. Honestly? I detect no lies. Everything said was true lol.
I firmly disagree with "everything", but I agree that some good points were made, mostly with respect to Fan-Fare and Fearless. Lots of the issues that were addressed are inconsequential to Highborn, a variation that Starcharger only mentions the last two minutes of a 30-minute rant.

For example, unlike fan lift and fan-nado, razors connect after every string and are at least +20 on hit which essentially guarantees a 50/50 mix up between strike and throw. If your opponents are jumping out of the b+2 string, you can do b+2 xx razors in order to punish them. I also understand the frustrations of trying to meaty with Kitana because of the incessant dial strings, but Highborn can simply do meaty razors which beat everything except reversal up+3s.

I recognize that most Kitana players believe Highborn is boring and bland, which Sonic Fox also mentions in the tier list video. However, Highborn remains Kitana's best variation, and any universal buffs have always benefited and will always benefit Highborn. So while I can state with a very high degree of certainly that NRS are not buffing all of Kitana's normal attacks as requested in the video, even if miraculously they did, the buffs would benefit Higborn the most and some Kitana players would still be unsatisfied.

I still perceive Highborn to be top 10 and tournament viable, and, with all due respect to all Kitana players on TYM, only @xKhaoTik seems to comprehend what I am talking about (unless he also changed his mind about Highborn now? LOL) I have said from the beginning that Fan-Fare and Fearless are limited and could use some buffs, but the buffs ought to be specific to the variations and less universal. If NRS gave Kitana what Starcharger is asking for, Highborn would be the best character by several miles.
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
@M2Dave my highborn thoughts are still the same lol

Kitana in general tho, there’s a few things here and there I agree with. I don’t agree with a lot of what was said but some things could be tweaked a bit.
 
They could nerf high born into the ground for all I care. She needs universal buffs and buffs to Variation 1 and 3. I want a REAL kitana variation that is good. I've been a kitana main in all other games but finally had to give her up in this game. The combination of the uncreative "short combos" present in this game, kitana not feeling like kitana anymore, and her in general being a very mediocre to just bad character has made her unplayable to me. She is NOT fun and I agree with what Sonic Fox said about her......
 

Stanlos

Noob
I can feel your frustration ... she's sooo messed up in this installment. Boring to watch, ineffective, repetitive gameplay strategy ... huh ... it pisses me off on so many levels. Why did they make her like this ??? In order to let boring-ass Jacqui shine ??? To make room for Jade and Sindel ??? They put so little effort and creativity when it comes to Kitana , it sickens me :( She's a fan favourite, for God's sake. She deserves a much more decent treatment.
Has NRS ever recealed what the thought was behind making all her conbos dial-ins?
 
Has NRS ever recealed what the thought was behind making all her conbos dial-ins?
Nope. I think, and from the looks of it, they basically just put stuff on her because it would look cool or nice. The dial up crap looks nice but is pointless to actually use. Just like giving her Mileena's crap was pointless. He ability choices are weak and pointless, but they look cool.
 

John Grizzly

The axe that clears the forest
Premium Supporter
Has NRS ever recealed what the thought was behind making all her conbos dial-ins?
Her old combos were very fun to execute and defined the character for me since MK2. The first time I saw one of her corner combos in MK2 I fell in love with crazy shit like that. It blew me away.

To answer your question, her combos were fun so they had to be removed from MK11.

p.s. Highborn is probably top 3 most boring variations in the game filled with boring variations. Boy oh boy are those midscreen combos a blast!