Kenshi Vs Sonya

[A F0xy Grampa]

Since the frame data for Kenshi only came out not so long ago. I've found some stuff that may be useful

Kenshi F22B2 string - 0 on block, after this string its not unusual for a Kenshi player to shoulder charge you, usually the threat of the shoulder allows for them to continue their offense in some way. Sonya players have 1 frame to prevent the shoulder from coming out with their standing 1, if the kenshi player attempts a shoulder they eat a full combo.

Once the Kenshi players then start to use armour at the end of the string you have the option to Ex cartwheel, Sonya armour will beat Kenshi armour in this scenario.

Footsies against shoulder charge. If you're just inside the maximum range of Kenshis SC and you block it, Kenshi is -10, this gives Sonya enough time to D4MSF1 Kenshi before another shoulder can come out, again the same armour scenario applies. The MSF1 mixups then give Sonya more block damage than any blocked SC has, as well as potential divekicks/crossovers/cartwheels.

Footsies in general, its not easy but you can stay just outside the SC range, here you have the option to throw rings, occasionally jump, dash in D4 etc. Just have to remember that he can armour SC you which has further range, but if you block this you wont have to block another SC like you would up close

 

[CURBOLICOUS]

Cool.

 

[Death]

Since the frame data for Kenshi only came out not so long ago. I've found some stuff that may be useful

Kenshi F22B2 string - 0 on block, after this string its not unusual for a Kenshi player to shoulder charge you, usually the threat of the shoulder allows for them to continue their offense in some way. Sonya players have 1 frame to prevent the shoulder from coming out with their standing 1, if the kenshi player attempts a shoulder they eat a full combo.

Good idea but very tough to consistently punish with that 1 frame gap. If Sonya guesses wrong shes eating block strings or a shoulder charge. Getting hit by a shoulder charge really hurts this MU. It puts Sonya full screen and where she has to go through the gauntlet again. This hurts Sonya because Kenshi is always building meter and chipping Sonya to death.

Once the Kenshi players then start to use armour at the end of the string you have the option to Ex cartwheel, Sonya armour will beat Kenshi armour in this scenario.

EX Teleflurry blows up EX Cartwheel. Any Kenshi player who knows the Sonya MU will never throw out EX SC from up close. They will always do EX Teleflurry and on hit will push you further away. On block the pushback hurts Sonya too and Kenshi will be able to follow up with a SC or EX SC. Kenshi will always have meter as well so this is not uncommon.

Footsies against shoulder charge. If you're just inside the maximum range of Kenshis SC and you block it, Kenshi is -10, this gives Sonya enough time to D4MSF1 Kenshi before another shoulder can come out, again the same armour scenario applies. The MSF1 mixups then give Sonya more block damage than any blocked SC has, as well as potential divekicks/crossovers/cartwheels.

This is not correct. Kenshi will recover in time before Sonya dashes in and does D+4~MSF1. Kenshi will back up and the D+4 will whiff and kenshi will whiff punish Sonya and will end the combo with a SC. And SC is very bad. D+4MSF+1 is only useful vs Kenshi if Kenshi does something like D+1~SC or D+3~SC. The pushback will let Sonya hit the D+4 but no way Sonya can D4 on a block SC in open space.

Footsies in general, its not easy but you can stay just outside the SC range, here you have the option to throw rings, occasionally jump, dash in D4 etc. Just have to remember that he can armour SC you which has further range, but if you block this you wont have to block another SC like you would up close

I dont know how your offline XP vs good Kenshi is. But from experience offline Kenshis can react to rings with reflect and overall read situations better offline. Whenever I throw a ring from midscreen or outside SC Range the kenshi player will reflect it on reaction and it will give Kenshi adv to rush in. EX SC is also a big problem for Sonya which you stated.

All in all, this MU is really bad for Sonya when the Kenshi player knows how to fight her. Kenshi is the only zoner who can zone Sonya without cornering him self and he will actually push Sonya to the corner where its really tough considering Kenshi corner game is one of the best in the game. The fact that Kenshi is always chipping Sonya and always building meter is what hurts her the most. Sonya cant even punish Kenshi with a combo of a whiff SC. The best she can do is dash in D+4 MSF+1 on a whiff move. That hurts.


Sonyas only bad MUs
3.5-6.5- Kenshi
3.5-6.5- Kabal
4-6- Freddy

Rapes every1 else 6-4/7-3 and only goes even with a few.

 

[THTB]

Yeah, you forgot to factor in that charge advantage changes depending on which active frame it hits on. It definitely is under -10.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Have you actually tried any of this Death? The 1 frame gab is big enough that Kenshi has to use armour or eat a block string. Its not hard to react to his B2 cause its a really obvious move when its on screen.

The D4 against a closer blocked SC does work, and I didnt say 'just stand there and throw rings'. You have to throw rings to get him to respect the option, opening up other options

 

[Ashenar]

Actually tbh f22b2 is not the preferred string 21b2 or 21 cancels are the new string of choice for up close kenshi pressure.

 

[Tolkeen]

Your 7 frame jab will whiff over my 7 frame d3 meaning you have to block the following string, block a sc with pushback, or armor it. Another option you should consider.


Tapatalk, helping me procrastinate.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Your 7 frame jab will whiff over my 7 frame d3 meaning you have to block the following string, block a sc with pushback, or armor it. Another option you should consider.


Tapatalk, helping me procrastinate.

Even if you hit a d3, she can still standing 1 you at the same time you can standing 1 her, hit d1s and d3s against characters with 6 or 7 frame launchers isnt really that good of an idea because its still a gamble if you try a string.

If the Kenshi player starts doing stupid stuff like D3 SC, thats exactly what you want.

 

[Tolkeen]

Even if you hit a d3, she can still standing 1 you at the same time you can standing 1 her, hit d1s and d3s against characters with 6 or 7 frame launchers isnt really that good of an idea because its still a gamble if you try a string.

If the Kenshi player starts doing stupid stuff like D3 SC, thats exactly what you want.

Not exactly sure of the range, but if the sc puts you at max d3 range, if it hits will walking backwards give me enough room to whiff punish your jab?

 

[salvificblood]

I don't know why people theory fight so hard in these threads. Clearly, the point is that you have some frames at your disposal after the blocked sc and if you're really on point, you can punish kenshi for trying to end strings with the sc or for trying to go into more pressure after a string.

Obviously, you can always argue situation A over situation B, but that's what the game is supposed to be all about, making reads and it doesn't take anything away from the main point.

 

[Death]

Have you actually tried any of this Death? The 1 frame gab is big enough that Kenshi has to use armour or eat a block string. Its not hard to react to his B2 cause its a really obvious move when its on screen.

The D4 against a closer blocked SC does work, and I didnt say 'just stand there and throw rings'. You have to throw rings to get him to respect the option, opening up other options

Yeah I played all the best kenshis offline before. The 1 frame gap is good but you wont get it all the time. Like I said about the poke~SC works. But if you just block it in open space you cant D+4. Kenshi will recover and back up and will use his armor or just do it again. I wish Sonya was able to D+4 a blocked SC. The rings is a good strat but Kenshi always seems to reflect it and im at Disadv when i hit. Sometimes i get the rings to hit but usually only when Kenshi whiffs a SC. Sonya still has problems punishing a whiff SC. The best she can do is D+4 MSF1. That would be awesome if Sonya was able to punish a whiff SC witch dive kick.

 

[Death]

Even if you hit a d3, she can still standing 1 you at the same time you can standing 1 her, hit d1s and d3s against characters with 6 or 7 frame launchers isnt really that good of an idea because its still a gamble if you try a string.

If the Kenshi player starts doing stupid stuff like D3 SC, thats exactly what you want.

100% agree with you here. The kenshi i was rolling games with offline kept doing D3~SC and it was a dumb idea cuz it gave Sonya a free entrance to MS and block strings. The main problem in the MU is the armor Kenshi has and the fact he always has it. Sonyas strings also hit high vs kenshi crouching so I can keep Kenshi in like a Cage player can because Cage has the F3 that hits mid and 11f1 that hits kenshi crouch blocking.

But yeah D3~sc or D+1~SC is pretty dumb to do vs Sonya. But the Kenshi player caught on and did D+3~EX teleflurry or EX SC and it worked pretty good. Its a tough MU for Sonya. Kenshi zoning is really good cuz he can push Sonya to the corner instead of cornering himself.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Wow. Any player using an EX Teleflurry in ANYTHING but a trade against a standing move is an idiot. As for D3 SC being "stupid", it`s not. Yes, if he does d3 sc every time he does a poke, that`s dumb. But canceling into SC from d3 works well when your opponent is counter poking. It`s especially effecting when doing D3 EX SC to establish frame traps. Personally, I use D3 Slash because it recovers faster than the SC, and you`re NOT gonna get in on my after that when my EX SC comes out after it.

And yeah, F22B2 and B2 are neutral, so you can you armor through the SC after it. Even jab out of it. It`s because it`s tough to see the exact moment my animation is over, and SC doesnt cancel off those strings. I have to wait and input it perfectly, and theres a good change it`s not gonna come out exactly when I want it, making me more vulnerable. Against sonya with access to an EX cartwheel, yeah im gonna be carefull about what I do after that string. But like ashnar said, 2, 21, is a much more better offensive approach these days.

 

[Death]

Wow. Any player using an EX Teleflurry in ANYTHING but a trade against a standing move is an idiot. As for D3 SC being "stupid", it`s not. Yes, if he does d3 sc every time he does a poke, that`s dumb. But canceling into SC from d3 works well when your opponent is counter poking. It`s especially effecting when doing D3 EX SC to establish frame traps. Personally, I use D3 Slash because it recovers faster than the SC, and you`re NOT gonna get in on my after that when my EX SC comes out after it.

And yeah, F22B2 and B2 are neutral, so you can you armor through the SC after it. Even jab out of it. It`s because it`s tough to see the exact moment my animation is over, and SC doesnt cancel off those strings. I have to wait and input it perfectly, and theres a good change it`s not gonna come out exactly when I want it, making me more vulnerable. Against sonya with access to an EX cartwheel, yeah im gonna be carefull about what I do after that string. But like ashnar said, 2, 21, is a much more better offensive approach these days.

EX teleflurry is a great move. It blows up ex cartwheel and its safe on block and sever adv on hit. D3 regulad SC is dumb. It gives the opponent free block strings. In sonyas case it gives her a free way in to MS. But like you said D+3~EX is good.

 

[RTM2004]

Pink Energy Rings are still good.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

EX teleflurry is a great move. It blows up ex cartwheel and its safe on block and sever adv on hit. D3 regulad SC is dumb. It gives the opponent free block strings. In sonyas case it gives her a free way in to MS. But like you said D+3~EX is good.

D3 SC is simply a mixup option that can set up an armored follow up if they try to capitalize on it being blocked, so you can't just call it dumb. And man, EX Flurry is an incredibly risky move. It doesn't matter about hit advantage and being safe. It's only 13% damage, where an EX SC is 12% and is faster and sets up frame traps on block. If the EX Flurry "blows up" the EX Cartwheel, then the EX SC will do the exact same thing. However, if you miss with an EX Flurry and they jump, the whiff recovery is so horribly long that you're asking for certain death. The risk is waaaaay too high for the reward. I know maybe you've experienced it in a way that you have a different opinion, but I don't think you'll find any prominent Kenshi player that differs from this opinion of the EX Flurry.

It's good in projectile trades and for fighting against some standing unblockables like nightwolf's ex lightening when he's trying to nail you on wakeup. Other than that, there's absolutely no reason to use EX Flurry over EX SC.

And also, since the Flurry or EX Flurry is not a true projectile move, it can be moved through. Which means things like the Cartwheel or even simple dashing can go right through both versions of it, leaving Kenshi standing there making movements with his hands for an eternity while you walk up and kill him.

 

[ForeverKing]

This is what happens whenever Sonya fights Kenshi....

[/quote]

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

This is what happens whenever Sonya fights Kenshi....

[/quote]

Lol.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

EX teleflurry is a great move. It blows up ex cartwheel and its safe on block and sever adv on hit. D3 regulad SC is dumb. It gives the opponent free block strings. In sonyas case it gives her a free way in to MS. But like you said D+3~EX is good.

Tele flurry more active frames of armor and better meter builder and ex tracks teleports

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Tele flurry more active frames of armor and better meter builder and ex tracks teleports

Get's dashed through. Incredibly punishable on whiff. Sure, there's good things about it. The armor is nice, and the teleport tracking can help you ever once in a blue moon. But who's using EX Flurry to build meter?

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

This is what happens whenever Sonya fights Kenshi....

[/quote]

Kevo has no foosties against you what so ever in that fight, so he's gonna get walked over

 

[Death]

EX Teleflurry is the preferred armor move to use when getting out of pressure or up close in general. EX SC can get armored through but EX teleflurry would never. EX SC is better to use from mid screen or when you know the Sonya player is playing footsies outside of EX SC range.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

EX Teleflurry is the preferred armor move to use when getting out of pressure or up close in general. EX SC can get armored through but EX teleflurry would never. EX SC is better to use from mid screen or when you know the Sonya player is playing footsies outside of EX SC range.

"EX Flurry is the preferred armored move up close"?? Are you a main Kenshi player? That is an absurd and insane statement man.

Yes, the extra armor is good if you think they're gonna try to beat your armor with their armor. But that's it. Everything else about the EX SC is better. Full screen push. Combos in the corner. Establish frame traps. Faster recovery.

 

[G4S Claude VonStroke]

Under the Mayo vs Death MM. Let's get to it!

 

[ForeverKing]

Under the Mayo vs Death MM. Let's get to it!

Anybody going to Season's Beatings tomorrow vs FOREVER KING MM. Let's do it!