Kano VS Kabal

[Goblin Bones]

I play a little bit different with my Kano seemingly since he is my main i have had plenty of experience with Kabal and to be honest I rush Kabal I like to keep Toe Taps as much as possible and i also like to bait his wake up ground blades :} goes along with rushing

 

[shura30]

the issue here is that kano players love to stick only with 3 things:

at distance -> knives
upclose -> upball
on loss -> scream nerf kabal!

and really, sometime i would like to read about: i try strategy x and y doing this and that and i still lose and not pointless iaGB are OP!!

should kabal players tell you that iaGBs aren't from a machinegun and there is a time window where you can dash in and crouch?
how many dashes it takes to cover a full screen distance?3?4?
dashblock anyone?

while spamming faceshots kabal gets naturally pushed to the corner
obviously if you sit there throwing the occasional knife, screen lock won't let this happen -> another advantage you should not give to kabal

straight ball goes above buzzsaw and well, you can go over them on reaction or read the projectile pattern
you can pick the air downball too
both are no upball in recovery so you have to risk a punish (another thing kano players love not while kaballers put everything at risk while dash cancelling)

sometime try to not jumpinkick throw for safeness sake
i stopped counting the times where a kano could have easily raped me for a mistaken bs with a jumpin combo instead of a kickthrow

i don't intend to be rude but really try and find something before crying for nerfs!

 

[Crathen]

A smart use of d3 will eventually make Kabal dash up close and trying to force a reaction like you have just said , the thing you dont say is the risks Kabal takes while doing that , let me explain:

Situation: ND cancel into sweep distance

1 NDC Buzzsaw < Jump into Jip combo
2 NDC Hookgrab < Jump ( wich can turn into a crossjump due to Kabal advancing for the grab ) into Jip combo , if you block it any character with a 9 frame advancing special will be able to punish it
3 NDC into f32 < jump/crossjump mostly turns out in both players switching positions , no one is hit
4 NDC into Iagb < dash poke will avoid the iagb , crouch blocking will nullify it and you are now at jump distance from Kabal
5 NDC into Jip < Any anti air normal (into AA combo) or special
6 Naked ND < Block and punish for full combo

This means that a smart Kabal player will mostly try to NDC into Iagb since its the safer option among all wich can be baited ( it always comes down to good reads vs a smart Kabal ) and punished ( slides , dash into d1 and combo and other options ) , still i want to discuss why you feel Kabal has the advantage upclose ( i get that he has EX ND to get out of pressure , but if baited and blocked its an easy full combo punish and you can't EX ND on reaction while being pressured ) , his 50/50 from f32 are super easy to fuzzy guard ( bb3 is 15 frames , db2 is 21 , you get what i mean ) , he can put on mindgames with f32 NDC into the 50/50 or another f32 but let me tell this:

1 f32 NDC into db2 is interrupted by everyone with d1 ( actually i think you can interrupt him with any move faster than 12 frames and maybe it can be cross jumped , needs more testing tho )
2 f32 NDC into bb3 cant be interrupted but it can be punished by fast advancing specials
3 f32 NDC into another f32 is interrupted by any 10 frames or faster normal/special
4 f32 into ND ( huge risk ) can't be interrupted but if ya were trying to fuzzy guard his 50/50 you will block it and punish it

I'm not saying Kabal is a mid tier character , he sure is in top 8 but he really depends on scaring your opponent and go heavy with mindgames wich can be fuzzy guarded / jumped , again dash poking with d3 should only be done on reaction from full/ 3/4 screen distance till you enter the jump distance and with that you need LOTS of Iagbs to build up 1 bar of meter wich essentially turns out getting dash d1 into full combo if ya spam those upclose ( and i'm not taking into account armor moves , slides and things like KL f3 ) , last thing is that Kabal has no safe way to get out of corner pressure so he'll have to play smart and not relying on safe get off me moves ( KL EX tele , Sektors EX TU , Kitanas EX fan tele and so on ).

 

[D.Barrett]

the issue here is that kano players love to stick only with 3 things:

at distance -> knives
upclose -> upball
on loss -> scream nerf kabal!

and really, sometime i would like to read about: i try strategy x and y doing this and that and i still lose and not pointless iaGB are OP!!

should kabal players tell you that iaGBs aren't from a machinegun and there is a time window where you can dash in and crouch?
how many dashes it takes to cover a full screen distance?3?4?
dashblock anyone?

while spamming faceshots kabal gets naturally pushed to the corner
obviously if you sit there throwing the occasional knife, screen lock won't let this happen -> another advantage you should not give to kabal

straight ball goes above buzzsaw and well, you can go over them on reaction or read the projectile pattern
you can pick the air downball too
both are no upball in recovery so you have to risk a punish (another thing kano players love not while kaballers put everything at risk while dash cancelling)

sometime try to not jumpinkick throw for safeness sake
i stopped counting the times where a kano could have easily raped me for a mistaken bs with a jumpin combo instead of a kickthrow

i don't intend to be rude but really try and find something before crying for nerfs!

I dont want kabal to get nerfed i just want someone to help me do better in this match up. Ill do what i have to do to beat kabal. But for the love of god stop nerfing the characters. Buff the weak characters and leave everyone else alone

 

[shura30]

I dont want kabal to get nerfed i just want someone to help me do better in this match up. Ill do what i have to do to beat kabal. But for the love of god stop nerfing the characters. Buff the weak characters and leave everyone else alone

that's the spirit

something i love to do is to lurk other characters subforums reading strategy and matchup discussion
kinda spying the enemy

i also think that having people breaking down stuff for you works until a certain point
then you NEED to start figuring stuff out for yourself

what me and (mostly) crathen did was explaining how to counter certain situations
that's your job
it's not up to us justify players that can't handle things and cry nerf
when you tried everything you could think of without success it's either a bad matchup or an imbalance
but only after you gave it all to figure out stuff!!

the best advice i could give is to watch carefully each situation and try to think off match what you or your opponent could have done
(sitting on the toilet in the morning kinda speed up the process lol)
this will help a lot in the long run because the more playing style you face, the faster you have to adapt and having a countermeasure or simply the ability to handle a nasty situation is crucial if you intend to win

 

[AK Walker]

EX upball does wonders against an opponent who spams projectiles. Block dashing is also good especially against Kabal. Also as retarded as this may sound when a Kabal is pressuring you with f+3, 2 you can jump straight up in the air and that can get you out of that pressure string. They throw a buzzsaw, sweep, nomad dash cancel or start up another f+3,2 you can hit them with a neutral jumping punch to bounce them then do a combo of your choice. Yes it can back fire sometimes but when my back is to the wall (figuratively) I'll roll the dice and do that. I've caught quite a few Kabals off guard doing that.

 

[M2Dave]

Situation: ND cancel into sweep distance

1 NDC Buzzsaw < Jump into Jip combo
2 NDC Hookgrab < Jump ( wich can turn into a crossjump due to Kabal advancing for the grab ) into Jip combo , if you block it any character with a 9 frame advancing special will be able to punish it
3 NDC into f32 < jump/crossjump mostly turns out in both players switching positions , no one is hit
4 NDC into Iagb < dash poke will avoid the iagb , crouch blocking will nullify it and you are now at jump distance from Kabal
5 NDC into Jip < Any anti air normal (into AA combo) or special
6 Naked ND < Block and punish for full combo

Good luck reacting to all of those options in a heated battle.

1 f32 NDC into db2 is interrupted by everyone with d1 ( actually i think you can interrupt him with any move faster than 12 frames and maybe it can be cross jumped , needs more testing tho )
2 f32 NDC into bb3 cant be interrupted but it can be punished by fast advancing specials
3 f32 NDC into another f32 is interrupted by any 10 frames or faster normal/special
4 f32 into ND ( huge risk ) can't be interrupted but if ya were trying to fuzzy guard his 50/50 you will block it and punish it

Kabal's NDC mix ups are certainly not limited to those four options. Kabal can NDC every one of his strings to fool you into jumping or attacking at the wrong time. For example, OnlineTony incorporates 1,1,b+4 to his mix up game. Other Kabal players have also started using b+1,2,1. Something like b+1 -> NDC -> f+3,2 can catch you by surprise. Kabal's up close game is very good. Only the very best characters in the game have superior options. Kano, on the other hand, almost exclusively relies on b+1,1,2. b+1,1,2 is +1 on block. b+1 -> throw is nice. b+2,f+1 and f+3,b+2 are decent. That is about the extent of Kano's mix up game, though. Of course, Kabal has superior options.

Kabal is one of the best characters in the game. I am talking top 3. I am not suggesting that he should be toned down, but it is kind of ridiculous that he can rush down very well and zone very well. iAGB recovers extremely fast when done correctly. If Kabal and Kano are 5-6 characters away from each other and Kano throws a knife while Kabal does an iAGB, not only does Kabal have enough time to block, he can also jump forward. Kano gets hit of course. Kano has a difficult time getting close. Even when he gets close, it is not like he has an advantage. Kano loses to Kabal 6:4 at least.

 

[MagicMan357]

kano is ass against kabal, just sayin

 

[KanoSlayedYou]

you play shitty kabals

Maybe I'm just better.​

​

 

[Massive Kano]

Thanks to m2dave. One of the few people who consistently talks good sense.

 

[Massive Kano]

Maybe I'm just better.​

​

Say the guy who brags constantly but won't give out his online ID or play anybody. The only think you're slaying is credibility, pal.

 

[shura30]

Good luck reacting to all of those options in a heated battle.

good post but you still miss something

each kabal player i've seen right now (including me) is able to NDC out each normal
BUT
only for pressing and deception
we will mostly confirm the spin out f4 or f3,2 (mainly because it's easier to see if they hit or not)

you can just sit and wait for them to come out then it's your call to poke/jump out or not

for the rest, it's a guessing game that every character with highs and lows can pull off (mayble less strong than kabal but still..)

always remember that crashing on opponent's block (due to a bad guess on NDC, at some time you gotta spin the enemy) can cost a full combo
and nowadays decent players can pull off nice 35-40% constantly that compared to the risk and low kabal's damage output are good enough to maintain for long most of those 5-5 matchups he has now

 

[KanoSlayedYou]

Say the guy who brags constantly but won't give out his online ID or play anybody. The only think you're slaying is credibility, pal.

You sound jealous. Also, you may try to spell correctly next time; it's slaying your credibility.​

​

 

[NogunYesknife]

Good luck reacting to all of those options in a heated battle.



Kabal's NDC mix ups are certainly not limited to those four options. Kabal can NDC every one of his strings to fool you into jumping or attacking at the wrong time. For example, OnlineTony incorporates 1,1,b+4 to his mix up game. Other Kabal players have also started using b+1,2,1. Something like b+1 -> NDC -> f+3,2 can catch you by surprise. Kabal's up close game is very good. Only the very best characters in the game have superior options. Kano, on the other hand, almost exclusively relies on b+1,1,2. b+1,1,2 is +1 on block. b+1 -> throw is nice. b+2,f+1 and f+3,b+2 are decent. That is about the extent of Kano's mix up game, though. Of course, Kabal has superior options.

Kabal is one of the best characters in the game. I am talking top 3. I am not suggesting that he should be toned down, but it is kind of ridiculous that he can rush down very well and zone very well. iAGB recovers extremely fast when done correctly. If Kabal and Kano are 5-6 characters away from each other and Kano throws a knife while Kabal does an iAGB, not only does Kabal have enough time to block, he can also jump forward. Kano gets hit of course. Kano has a difficult time getting close. Even when he gets close, it is not like he has an advantage. Kano loses to Kabal 6:4 at least.

You know, I've always seen you talking about how kabal is too good/ridiculous. So i thought "man, this guy must be good with kabal to be able to react on noob's clones, to pull off IAGB's 100% of the time, to be able to cancel nomad dashes effectively, to never mess up block strings, etc."

Then I realized you played Reptile. Now I'm starting to wonder if you know how hard kabal is to learn. he is NOWHERE near reptile. Erik Warda/Mike/Online T. worked sooo hard to get that good with kabal. To this day I still see all of them mess up on IAGB, and dash cancels. I'm really starting to hope that we incorporate human error into matchup charts. Because Kabal is just too high execution. And frankly, Who ever learns kabal deserves a top tier character.

 

[M2Dave]

You know, I've always seen you talking about how kabal is too good/ridiculous. So i thought "man, this guy must be good with kabal to be able to react on noob's clones, to pull off IAGB's 100% of the time, to be able to cancel nomad dashes effectively, to never mess up block strings, etc."

Then I realized you played Reptile. Now I'm starting to wonder if you know how hard kabal is to learn. he is NOWHERE near reptile. Erik Warda/Mike/Online T. worked sooo hard to get that good with kabal. To this day I still see all of them mess up on IAGB, and dash cancels. I'm really starting to hope that we incorporate human error into matchup charts. Because Kabal is just too high execution. And frankly, Who ever learns kabal deserves a top tier character.

Would you use a character who is execution heavy yet has access to all tools (i.e., Kabal)? Or would you use a character who is moderately easy to use yet clearly lacks certain tools (i.e., Kano)? Personally, I would choose the former. If I lose because of execution errors, that is my fault. If I lose because my character lacks tools, how is that my fault?

I do not have a problem with Kabal or Kabal players. Instead, I have a problem with the balance of the game. In this game, you have a character like Kabal who has the ability to zone and rush down. Then, on the other hand, you have one dimensional characters like Stryker, Sindel, Baraka, Noob, etc. who can only play a single way. You have no right to complain about execution and human error when you use Kabal because many characters lack half the tools he has.

I am not a Reptile player, by the way. Admittedly, I am just tier whoring, hoping that one of my main characters (i.e., Kano, Noob) will get some buffs in the next patch.

 

[Big Frog]

D1/D3 and constant aggressive pressure is the only thing I can hope for. Forget about zoning him.

 

[Doctor_V]

I think if your a High level Kano player playing a high level Kabal player than you should just put the controller down and leave the building. Its that bad.