Kano Matchup Discussion Thread

[cyke_out]

Has anyone used ex ball successfully to go through fireballs? does it have full armor or only on start up? I'm so inconsistant with I'll never learn for myself.

I'd give anything to trade armor on ex ball and give it to ex choke.

 

[cyke_out]

vs. Stryker: not sure but less than 6-4 (don't know how the zoning goes but at least he has a great armor move)

6-4 vs Kano

Roll Toss goes under knife on reaction. High grenades discourage the use of air cannon balls. Low grenade beats cannon ball and on block, you recover quickly enough to block his balls in time. A well timed Gun Shot or EN Gun Shot can also stop cannon balls and air cannonballs and be followed by a juggle. Basically, Gun Shots and Grenades force Kano to burn meter on EN Up Ball and EN knives if he wants to keep up with Stryker's superior zoning.

At mid-range and up close, Kano's pokes are slow compared to Stryker. Up Ball on block can be punished with: D1 xx Gun Shot, D4 xx Roll Toss (20%). So every time we block an Up Ball we can send Kano full screen where he struggles the most. Finally, Kano has no reset that leave Stryker standing or deprive him of an invincible wake up attack. Which means Stryker can easily and safely get out of Kano's oki game.

Kano can barely build up any meter without putting his ass on the line and he has to constantly burn meter if he wants to keep up with Stryker. On the other hand, Stryker doesn't even need to burn any meter at all in this matchup so he can save it all on breakers, X-ray or on abuse EN Grenades which completely lock Kano down.

I honestly believe Stryker outplays Kano in every possible range now. Before the patch, Kano's mixup and oki was kind of scary. We needed meter for armored Roll Toss but it often got stuffed by Kano's low string. But now it's no longer a problem.

So both sides of the Kano vs Stryker match up see it as 6-4 for their respective character.

I want to address the point that Vulcan Hades makes about Kano pokes being slower than Stryker

here are both characters frame data, compared side to side kano on the left/ stryker on the right

Kano / Stryker

1- 11 / 10
2- 10 / 18
3- 18 / 13
4- 15 / 8

b+1 - 12 / 16
b+2 - 23 / 19
b+3 - 18 / 26
b+4 - 21 / 17

d+1 - 6 / 6
d+2 - 11 / 7
d+3 - 7 / 7
d+4 - 12 / 12

f+1 - 12 / na
f+2 - 12 / na
f+4 - 28 / na
f+3 - 17 / na

To me it looks like Kano still comes out on top in the pokes department, he has faster longer reaching pokes, a faster low starter and great frame traps, Stryker has a better uppercut and sweep and his 4 is amazing, but is it really enough to say Stryker wins the up-close battle?

 

[Vulcan Hades]

he has faster longer reaching pokes, a faster low starter

You're comparing the speed of combo starters lol. That's not how it works Just because Kano's low starter has 17 start up doesn't mean he outpokes Stryker or that he has better footsies. You also have to take into consideration the way their hittable boxes are modified, active frames and advantage on hit/block.

I guess I should've looked at Kano's frame data before saying Stryker had faster pokes lol. Looks like they're pretty equal in speed actually. But I'm still convinced Stryker has better footsies overall.

but is it really enough to say Stryker wins the up-close battle?

I didn't mean it like Stryker wins vs Kano up close because he has a better offense. Just that it is pretty easy to space his offense out. Unlike vs Sonya and Jax for example were Stryker is pretty much helpless unless he has meter and makes a good read.

Forgot to mention a few details like:

-4 stuffs cannon balls
-Sweep avoids Up Ball, beats choke and beats your X-ray

Details, details.

 

[Flagg]

In the last few days ive learned that:

Noob Saibot, Cyrax, Smoke and surprisingly, Jade, are really hard match up's for the Kanemeister.

 

[BEENEEWEENEES]

agree with noob and jade, smoke is probably 5-5 and cyrax should be in kano's favor. knife recovers before net can hit him if they're thrown simultaneously and upball punishes teleport (unless human cyrax). he can ball over bombs too.

edit: an interesting thing; when playing a smoke offline a few weeks ago, i discovered that if i really concentrated on the match, i can ball over smoke bombs on reaction. if you're an offline player, you should to make this a habit.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Ive been facing a plethora of smoke's lately. Havent really struggled. KL is a pretty tough matchup, he just kills me with his pressure.

 

[Flagg]

Really? I don't find KL that much of a problem, at least KL's teleport gets shut down by Kano. However, KL down kick beats his upball which is BS. With Kano, you gotta wait to get that chance to land D1 or D3 and then away you go. What I like about Kano is that he may not be the best zoner or the best rush down, but he is good at both, something a lot of characters cant say.

I've been having more luck against Smoke and Cyrax now, I do like to troll a Smoke player and do a "Smoke combo" on them with Kano, ala, 212, 212, jk grab. I keep seeing people say that SZ is hard for Kano, but for now I have to say I disagree. His knives kill SZ! It's easy enough to bait a slide. Even though I like to rush, im more than happy to zone SZ and then wait for my opportunity to rush in and pressure. Been playing around with ex knife and dash in, as I believe Kano has frame advantage on ex knife.

Kanos ball goes over LK and Sindels low fireballs...this does not work with NS slide shadow unfortunately. A good NS is one of Kanos hardest match ups, and I can't believe how hard it is to take down Jade with him! Funny enough, against some of the heavy hitters like KL, Raiden, Reptile, even Kitana, Kano is pretty effective. He seems to totally dominate Ermac as well.

[MENTION=1688]BEENEEWEENEES[/MENTION], as basic as Kanos specials look, they are amazing at punishing other characters specials. Ball beating smoke bomb on reaction is epic.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Do we have anywhere close to an updated chart yet? I could make one if some info is available. Here are some I would start with:

Cyrax: 4-6
Kabal: 4-6
Smoke: 5-5
Raiden: 4-6(maybe 3-7)
Kung Lao: 4-6
Sektor: 6-4
Sheeva: 6-4

Ill add on later. Feel free to add/discuss.

 

[Flagg]

I genuinely think Jade is a bad match up for Kano.

 

[BEENEEWEENEES]

Do we have anywhere close to an updated chart yet? I could make one if some info is available. Here are some I would start with:

Cyrax: 4-6
Kabal: 4-6
Smoke: 5-5
Raiden: 4-6(maybe 3-7)
Kung Lao: 4-6
Sektor: 6-4
Sheeva: 6-4

Ill add on later. Feel free to add/discuss.

kano is one of kabal's only unfavorable matchups, actually. you can ball over buzzsaw on reaction offline; it also goes under iAGB. kabal also can't consistently punish upball because of the tech crouch during its recovery frames.

raiden is definitely not 3-7. 5-5 imo.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Alright so:
Raiden: 5-5
Kabal: 5-5
Sheeva: 6-4
Sektor: 6-4
Smoke: 5-5
Cyrax: 4-6

I Disagree with the Jade matchup being bad. Up close I think Kano owns her, I dont think she can really do anything major to him if he plays smart and punished. Plus if she tries to glow you can ball on reaction. Id say 6-4 or 5-5. Thoughts?

 

[M2Dave]

kano is one of kabal's only unfavorable matchups, actually. you can ball over buzzsaw on reaction offline; it also goes under iAGB. kabal also can't consistently punish upball because of the tech crouch during its recovery frames.

You can definitely not ball over well-executed iaGBs, and up ball is easily punished by Kabal's f+4, which has a 9F start up.

Kano loses the fireball war in this match up and also loses up close. Kabal's pressure is superior to anything Kano has.

Kano loses this match up 4:6 at least.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Baraka: 6-4
Cyrax: 5-5(Net is the only thing Cyrax has in this matchup IMO, but it leads to 60% damage so it is significant)
Cyber Sub Zero: 5-5
Ermac: 6-4(Kills him up close, can knife out of Ermac's range)
Freddy: 5-5
Jade: 5-5
Jax: 4-6
Johnny Cage: 5-5(OFFLINE)
Kabal: 4-6
Kitana: 4-6(maybe 3-7)
Kenshi: 4-6
Kung lao: 5-5
Liu Kang: 6-4(can outzone him, doesnt get overwhelmed up close.)
Mileena: 4-6
Nightwolf: 6-4(maybe 5-5)
Noob Saibot: 5-5
Quan Chi: 6-4
Raiden: 5-5
Rain: 5-5
Reptile: 6-4(I think he beats him up close and can zone him, maybe)
Scorpion: 5-5
Sektor: 6-4
Shang Tsung: 5-5
Sheeva: 6-4
Sindel: 6-4
Skarlett: 5-5
Smoke: 4-6
Sonya: 4-6
Sub Zero: 6-4

That is all off the top of my head. THERE IS NO WAY it is 100 percent correct. I am just trying to get some good discussion going so we can get a good matchup chart going. Ill try to post this on MKU and TRMK as well.

 

[Flagg]

Hmm. I actually think Kano has a 5:5 or maybe 6:4 against Kitana but stuggles against Baraka.

Interesting to hear why you think the opposite.

I think a good Freddy using pure zoning could be trouble for Kano as well.

 

[xenogorgeous]

The Kung Lao's matchup is accurate .... A well played Kano can keep up with KL's best game

 

[Zoidberg747]

So Ive already seen Macewind on MKU and Flagg say Freddy beats Kano, and im inclined to think they are right. Same thing with Noob, the chip will eventually get them. Will Update original posts.

Kitana im going to say 4-6, as Macewind was saying the same thing that Kit cant zone him but he cant really beat her up close game. I dont think he struggles against Baraka at all, even though you beat me in our matches flagg. Kano can zone Baraka out until he gets meter, then once he gets in close Baraka has an even or slight disadvantage against Kano. Even if Baraka gets an EX blade charge off it still knocks Kano backwards as well. The only thing Baraka has an advantage in is in the corner, but Kano can EX upball out of it or block the resets.

Actually I changed like 6 matchups so Ill post this one and edit this post:
Baraka: 6-4
Cyrax: 5-5
Cyber Sub Zero: 5-5
Ermac: 6-4
Freddy: 4-6
Jade: 5-5
Jax: 4-6
Johnny Cage: 5-5
Kabal: 4-6
Kitana: 5-5
Kenshi: 4-6
Kung lao: 5-5
Liu Kang: 6-4(can outzone him, doesnt get overwhelmed up close.)
Mileena: 4-6
Nightwolf: 5-5
Noob Saibot: 4-6
Quan Chi: 6-4
Raiden: 5-5
Rain: 5-5
Reptile: 6-4(I think he beats him up close and can zone him, maybe)
Scorpion: 5-5
Sektor: 6-4
Shang Tsung: 5-5
Sheeva: 6-4
Sindel: 6-4
Skarlett: 5-5
Smoke: 4-6
Sonya: 4-6
Sub Zero: 6-4

Freddy and Noob have an advantage, Kitana and Nightwolf are 5-5

 

[BEENEEWEENEES]

You can definitely not ball over well-executed iaGBs, and up ball is easily punished by Kabal's f+4, which has a 9F start up.

Kano loses the fireball war in this match up and also loses up close. Kabal's pressure is superior to anything Kano has.

Kano loses this match up 4:6 at least.

...oh x: let me fix my face then. only kabal i have experience against offline is lord of the fly's and that's only a couple times.

 

[I$AAC]

Here are my takes on the kano matchup chart


6-4 vs Baraka
5-5 vs Cyber Sub-Zero
5-5 vs Cyrax
6-4 vs Ermac
4.5-5.5 vs Freddy Krueger
6-4 vs Jade
4-6 vs Jax
6-4 vs Johnny Cage
5-5 vs Kabal
5-5 vs Kenshi
6-4 vs Kitana
4.5-5.5 vs Kung Lao
5-5 vs Liu Kang
4-6 vs Mileena
5-5 vs Nightwolf
5-5 vs Noob Saibot
6-4 vs Quan Chi
5-5 vs Raiden
5.5-4.5 vs Rain
5-5 vs Reptile
5-5 vs Scorpion
6-4 vs Sektor
6-4 vs Shang Tsung
6-4 vs Sheeva
6-4 vs Sindel
6-4 vs Skarlet
5-5 vs Smoke
6-4 vs Sonya Blade
5.5-4.5 vs Stryker
4-6 vs Sub-Zero

 

[Derptile]

Here are my takes on the kano matchup chart


6-4 vs Baraka
5-5 vs Cyber Sub-Zero
5-5 vs Cyrax
6-4 vs Ermac
4.5-5.5 vs Freddy Krueger
6-4 vs Jade
6-4 vs Jax
6-4 vs Johnny Cage
5-5 vs Kabal
5-5 vs Kenshi
6-4 vs Kitana
4.5-5.5 vs Kung Lao
5-5 vs Liu Kang
4-6 vs Mileena
5-5 vs Nightwolf
5-5 vs Noob Saibot
6-4 vs Quan Chi
5-5 vs Raiden
5.5-4.5 vs Rain
5-5 vs Reptile
5-5 vs Scorpion
6-4 vs Sektor
6-4 vs Shang Tsung
6-4 vs Sheeva
6-4 vs Sindel
6-4 vs Skarlet
5-5 vs Smoke
6-4 vs Sonya Blade
5.5-4.5 vs Stryker
4-6 vs Sub-Zero

I agree with most of this, except I think Freddy and Lao are both 5-5, and Reptile and Nightwolf are 4-6

Down ball against freddy stops AA ground claws, and Upball is very annoying to any Kung lao. Nightwolf normals are faster than ours and he has relfect, plus reptiles balls shut down out zoning.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Plop]

Upball is very annoying to any Kung lao. Nightwolf normals are faster than ours and he has relfect, plus reptiles balls shut down out zoning.

Just my 2 cents.

I dunno bout that. Kung Lao's divekick almost always beats my upball. It drives me round the bend...saying though, upball is really handy for punishing his telport.
I havent played any Freddys, but as for Nightwolf, i completely agree

 

[THTB]

Reptile and Nightwolf are 4-6

Reptile doesn't beat Kano. It's hard for Reptile to get in without playing risky, because knives, as nerfed as they are, still cut off Reptile's main advancing option well, especially from range. And he has to avoid getting hit by Kano, because that's pretty much a push to fullscreen.

 

[Derptile]

Reptile doesn't beat Kano. It's hard for Reptile to get in without playing risky, because knives, as nerfed as they are, still cut off Reptile's main advancing option well, especially from range. And he has to avoid getting hit by Kano, because that's pretty much a push to fullscreen.

Don't dash unless you have a slow ball on the screen or Kano's knocked down. You have to play very patiently and walk(really annoying) to him until in dash distance. Most of the time I find reptile's standing 3 beats Kano's b1, and besides that Kano's normals are slower and have less range than reptiles. The match could go either way but I think it's 5.5-4.5 reptiles favor.

And watch out for upball and xray.

 

[GUNZaBLAZE]

Skarlet matchup is 5-5

 

[G4S Claude VonStroke]

PL said the matchup against Raiden is like 5.5 to 4.5. He said it wasn't as bad as the sonya match up but he did say that this is advantage Kano. Actually he said these are the only two bad match ups for Raiden. I think this is advantage Kano as well.