General/Other - Kano KANO IS LIKE, BOTTOM ZERO GUYS

[Oh My Zod]

Nice picture, it has meaning too. Kano hanging out with last ranked Goro eating a turkey leg arguing over who is the leader of the "Underworld". A place better known as DEAD FREAKING LAST on the tier list. A fitting scene for this thread. Hopefully they dont die off in MKX as easily as they did in this movie.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Did you see what Ketchup was pulling off consistently? When he wasn't in the corner, he was just doin' work. He would land a hit and it would be over just like that.

Once Quan is in the corner, he doesn't have anything to mix his opponent up with to get out.

That's all good and fine, and completely irrelevant. I don't think you know what the words "absolute ceiling" mean

It's fine if you were just using it as a buzzword

But otherwise, he could be the best in the world by twice the next guy and still not be close to the skillcap of the character

 

[LEGI0N47]

Nobody says kano is top 5, he's pretty much agreed to be mid tier. The thing is Mid tiers can compete in this game if the player is using them to their full potential. We have a 1 Frame armor move that we can cancel to interrupt any gap, go back and watch the matches and tell me how many times Kanos used this OR our 2/4 frame parries that can be used in a similar way, the same with the tick throws Youphemism pointed out. It's possible that many characters are not being used to their absolute full potential still right? and that is what is happening here and with other characters who were not as prominent in the top 64 that is pointed out. It does not mean they are bad. People put so much stock in the character over the player. Obviously there are objective arguments based on characters' tool sets that can be made, but even they are hypothetical when you add in the element of human reaction and execution. Nobody is executing absolutely perfectly all the time yet, so I don't think we can really judge JUST the character so blankly until the Gap between what they theoretically can do and what is actually executed lessens. Kanos will figure it out in time with or without changes, just gotta keep playing.

I can get down with this. One thing that I think hurts him is the inability to interrupt or punish for big damage, one of the biggest contributors to winning match's IMO. We literally have a couple combo's that go over 30% and are rather conditional. But I agree that when players begin to hit these gaps or make reads with parries or MB Ball (wish it didn't scale like it does) the damage will add up quite a bit and make up for it, but nobody is doing it...yet.

 

[DFC]

I can get down with this. One thing that I think hurts him is the inability to interrupt or punish for big damage, one of the biggest contributors to winning match's IMO. We literally have a couple combo's that go over 30% and are rather conditional. But I agree that when players begin to hit these gaps or make reads with parries or MB Ball (wish it didn't scale like it does) the damage will add up quite a bit and make up for it, but nobody is doing it...yet.

If I played commando more I'd probably make it my goal to find gaps and punish with parries. Commando really seems like my goto variation for learning and improving. I went to it to grind out a footsies game, and I might go back to it to maximize my abilities to punish gaps.

 

[EMPR_FEAR]

I'll leave it at this:

Fixes - fine, by all means request them
Buffs - unnecessary, he's not broken nor unviable and he's not shit tier. Luxury buffs are fine if they happen but the people who'd rather just work on winning and agree that the character's fine like Coach Steve and I don't find he needs them for us to win. The character has great footsie tools for one thing, abuse them. In Commando work on getting tick throw mixups going and parry what you can as much as possible so they get scared to try and hit you. (Side note: is there even a thread detailing what can be parried and with what parries? Because that's kind of really important). In Cybernetic focus on getting them to respect blockstring/throw mixups (which are mixups by the way). In Cutthroat try and get in on the opponent then chuck them into the corner where your B1 is most effective, land hard knockdowns and run in if it'll help your B1 midscreen, and go for the big boy damage.

Stop crying about kano he's fine... Nobody think kitana can win evo, and a good player can do that. U have to study more ur character guys

 

[DFC]

Stop crying about kano he's fine... Nobody think kitana can win evo, and a good player can do that. U have to study more ur character guys

Erron Black won EVO, actually!

 

[GAV]

That's all good and fine, and completely irrelevant. I don't think you know what the words "absolute ceiling" mean

It's fine if you were just using it as a buzzword

But otherwise, he could be the best in the world by twice the next guy and still not be close to the skillcap of the character

I'm thinking that he has reached it. The game is still early, but what more could have been done by him?

Let those that know more than I weigh in, but that corner weakness isn't going away.

If you can see mistakes that he made, then so be it. What I saw was nearly flawless play from him.

 

[GAV]

Erron Black won EVO, actually!

Who is widely considered to be upper-mid tier. He has tools and weaknesses. Hey, he sounds kind of like Kano.

 

[ETC AdmiralAugustus]

Yo Kano confirmed in "Da Split"

 

[KH Showtime]

I got top 32 with cybernetic kano at Evo. He can use a couple little buffs but nothing to crazy. One of the most solid characters in the game tbh

 

[Mortal Komhat]

That's a horrible argument. When GAV flooded the Kano Buff thread with whiny pictures, nobody went at him. If you feel that they are shitposting, you should also feel that they're doing it for attention. And why would you give someone like that the attention they crave?

because shitposting can be quite fun!

 

[DFC]

I got top 32 with cybernetic kano at Evo. He can use a couple little buffs but nothing to crazy. One of the most solid characters in the game tbh

Boy if I ever see someone get taken advantage of like that Liu Kang you smacked around, I will personally fly to wherever they are and tell them that knife is unsafe on block. And your post is almost 100% inline with what the board wants. Fix all the busted junk, and a little dink buff for each variation, two for commando.

 

[M2Dave]

Who is widely considered to be upper-mid tier.

High mid tier? LOL. You are reading too much into Yomi's tier lists.

 

[LEGI0N47]

If I played commando more I'd probably make it my goal to find gaps and punish with parries. Commando really seems like my goto variation for learning and improving. I went to it to grind out a footsies game, and I might go back to it to maximize my abilities to punish gaps.

You can punish many gaps in Cutthroat as well with the EX power up. But yeah IMO playing commando improves your game.

 

[SaltShaker]

I play this guy that has a nasty Cybernetic Kano. He has consistent 40%+ combos with one bar with Cybernetic Kano and he mixes up off of them.

Situational corner combo you mean? Now I'm convinced you're just a scrub who has no idea what he's talking, or just a troll, or both. Please, enlighten us all on these "consistent 40%+ combos with one bar" Cyber has that he "mixes up off of them". Lmao! I'd love to level up my Kano with these combos your "friend" can do.

I got top 32 with cybernetic kano at Evo. He can use a couple little buffs but nothing to crazy.

I didn't realize you made it that high. Congrats on the placing!!!

Also, you said the exact words I've been saying for a month.

 

[ando1184]

Who is widely considered to be upper-mid tier. He has tools and weaknesses. Hey, he sounds kind of like Kano.

No no Mr. That sounds nothing like Kano. This is the second time someone has compared Kano to the evo winning characters, wth guys?!? EB has a universal OH/low mixup, a projectile the gives him plus 7, dot upon dot damage, a nearly fullscreen armored low that's a hard knockdown, and more tic throw setups than a street fighter character. Let's not forget 21122 builds meter as fast as raidens lightening attacks and creates one of the best pressure mixups in the game. Please don't compare Kano to this or any other character like this again.

 

[GAV]

Situational corner combo you mean? Now I'm convinced you're just a scrub who has no idea what he's talking, or just a troll, or both. Please, enlighten us all on these "consistent 40%+ combos with one bar" Cyber has that he "mixes up off of them". Lmao! I'd love to level up my Kano with these combos your "friend" can do.

Play it off any way you like. I know I'm right. These are mid-screen combos. The Reptile one was only once and with an X-ray, but the Cybernetic Kano ones have been doin' work against me for a long time. I play guys in ESL. I play guys that played MKX at EVO. I always look to play guys that are better than me and I'm never satisfied. I recognize tech when I see it even if I can't recreate it.

Of course, you just want what you want. Kano doesn't need an overhaul at all. He's very viable. A few tweaks here and there wouldn't hurt, but saying he isn't viable are the words of a child.

 

[VoyagersRevenge]

Every one of our strings are like 2-3 hits with no overhead options, we can sort of be predictable unless were Commando. Amp up the plus on Ex knives for Cyber, Eye laser damage scaling can stay the same, and yo why when I zone out with knives to bait out a jump and fling towards my opponent with kano ball.. I just get jump kicked out of it on reaction. I'm probably not timing the ball right? Up ball and up laser can be a bit silly too, one of them are supposed to be my Shoryuken! El diablo I'm losing hair playing this character to death. I'm even starting to look like him, strands of hair just giving up. The stress lol

 

[GAV]

No no Mr. That sounds nothing like Kano. This is the second time someone has compared Kano to the evo winning characters, wth guys?!? EB has a universal OH/low mixup, a projectile the gives him plus 7, dot upon dot damage, a nearly fullscreen armored low that's a hard knockdown, and more tic throw setups than a street fighter character. Let's not forget 21122 builds meter as fast as raidens lightening attacks and creates one of the best pressure mixups in the game. Please don't compare Kano to this or any other character like this again.

Erron Black is considered upper mid tier by most of the lists I've seen. Kano is considered mid tier on these same lists. EB has better rushdown, but Kano has decent rush down and better zoning. I also think Kano's Cannonball is getting overlooked. It takes away a lot of the escape routes.

 

[VoyagersRevenge]

Play it off any way you like. I know I'm right. These are mid-screen combos. The Reptile one was only once and with an X-ray, but the Cybernetic Kano ones have been doin' work against me for a long time. I play guys in ESL. I play guys that played MKX at EVO. I always look to play guys that are better than me and I'm never satisfied. I recognize tech when I see it even if I can't recreate it.

Of course, you just want what you want. Kano doesn't need an overhaul at all. He's very viable. A few tweaks here and there wouldn't hurt, but saying he isn't viable are the words of a child.

Unless 3 bars are being spent on combos, which is highly unlikely for a Cybernetic player. I can see the 40% accumulating off of an opening after some staggers or a reset but honestly.. Kano can get the damage in the corner if he works his ass off to actually get anything started. This variation seems to be a mix of zoning and destroying when the opponent is vulnerable (Meterless, scared of knives, respectful etc.)

 

[VoyagersRevenge]

Erron Black is considered upper mid tier by most of the lists I've seen. Kano is considered mid tier on these same lists. EB has better rushdown, but Kano has decent rush down and better zoning. I also think Kano's Cannonball is getting overlooked. It takes away a lot of the escape routes.

I've gotten dive kicked out of cannonball, received an uppercut to the forehead, johnny cage jabbed me out of it, Ermac just disappeared I was curled up in the corner for days bruh

 

[ando1184]

Erron Black is considered upper mid tier by most of the lists I've seen. Kano is considered mid tier on these same lists. EB has better rushdown, but Kano has decent rush down and better zoning. I also think Kano's Cannonball is getting overlooked. It takes away a lot of the escape routes.

Tier lists don't mean crap at this point because no one is testing things properly or looking at the characters and comparing their tool kits. Instead we have tiers based on tourney placings and by tourney placers that people only listen to word of mouth instead of physically understanding why a character is good/bad in X matchup. You mentioned cannonball, which ball move were you referring to exactly?

 

[Derptile]

Cybernetic is a variation where if you outplay your opponent through a solid understanding of footsies and whiff punishing you'll win. The zoning he has is not for damage, but is to annoy your opponent into making a mistake and then punishing them for it.

Cutthroat is balls to the wall rushdown and nothing but, you want them to wakeup so you can ex buff in their face and destroy them. You have to play with absolutely no fear.

Commando is for shit's and giggles, this is a character that will never ever be higher than bottom 10 in a game with 70 characters. Props to whoever is sticking with him.

Also, is there someone really suggesting Erron Black is not top 5?

 

[GAV]

Unless 3 bars are being spent on combos, which is highly unlikely for a Cybernetic player. I can see the 40% accumulating off of an opening after some staggers or a reset but honestly.. Kano can get the damage in the corner if he works his ass off to actually get anything started. This variation seems to be a mix of zoning and destroying when the opponent is vulnerable (Meterless, scared of knives, respectful etc.)

Well, I've been using mostly Pumped Up Jax against his Cybernetic Kano and I'm a super-aggressive player. I get caught pushing buttons when I shouldn't, but being overly timid or respectful isn't anything anyone would ever say about me in-game - especially with Jax. It's all about attacking while moving forward without giving up frames predictably to get punished with Jax. Once you land a hit, keep him up as long as you can with one-ones and end it with style.

Now, I'll admit - a good Cybernetic Kano is kind of an anomaly, but he can be played well. I've seen it.

I had a lot of success with Commando Kano when I played him. I played very aggressively with him and just zoned enough to keep the pressure on. He's good, flat out.

I know the least about Cutthroat. If someone speaks on Cutthroat, I'll abstain from speaking on it. Still, this is believed to be the most viable variation here - so I don't know what is really even being argued anymore.

Tweaks to Kano? Fine. Overhauling Kano completely? Absolutely not.

 

[GAV]

Tier lists don't mean crap at this point because no one is testing things properly or looking at the characters and comparing their tool kits. Instead we have tiers based on tourney placings and by tourney placers that people only listen to word of mouth instead of physically understanding why a character is good/bad in X matchup. You mentioned cannonball, which ball move were you referring to exactly?

The horizontal one...

I had a lot of success using the Up-Ball too though. I was just using it for anti-air, but it was great for stuffing jumpers.

I know a lot of people complain about it, but don't really know the issue. Do they want to use it to punish grounded opponents?