Kano Frame Traps + Antiairs Help!

[OnizukaPM]

Hi guys, Im new to Kano and i have 2 questions

1st: Is there any Kanos frametraps? Some string give me frame adv? Choke on block gives adv? I tried to figure out myself and i think that after B112 on block D1 is frame trap. Am i correct? Maybe some more traps? F11 maybe? Or d1/choke?

2nd: I know upball is Kano antiair/anticrossups, but maybe there is some normal that can lead into combo as antiair?

thx in advance

 

[PunisherAlive]

Choke is probably a AntiAir.

 

[OnizukaPM]

I tried standing 1

it works quite well, 1 dash 212 dash b12 upball
but i have hard time dealing the crossups

 

[cyke_out]

f+1 is great for anti-airs. also d+1 works too

also f+1,1 gives insane advantage on block, something i just learned from these very boards.

Just read all the threads on here and you should get most of your questions answered.

 

[Playpal]

f+1 is great for anti-airs. also d+1 works too

also f+1,1 gives insane advantage on block, something i just learned from these very boards.

Just read all the threads on here and you should get most of your questions answered.

F11 doesn't give advantage, it just has very few recovery frames.

 

[GNG Iniquity]

I'll be playing Kano exclusively at the next local, from what I can tell in the trainer, all of his strings recovery very quickly and it seems as if choke is safe on block and may give an advantage; perhaps I'm wrong. Can't accurately test this online.

Certainly jabs as AAs cannot be accurately tested online, either, which is a bummer.

 

[Feel_The_Byrne]

I'll be playing Kano exclusively at the next local, from what I can tell in the trainer, all of his strings recovery very quickly and it seems as if choke is safe on block and may give an advantage; perhaps I'm wrong. Can't accurately test this online.

Certainly jabs as AAs cannot be accurately tested online, either, which is a bummer.

Choke is safe on block, but It doesn't give advantage. It gives advantage on knockdown, as well as an untechable knockdown, but now that wake ups are fixed and some have been improved this is less useful. It's best use is d1(choke) after a blocked b112 and f11.

 

[Sao87]

b112 and f11 are +1 on block and choke is neutral.

Use f11 for throw/choke mind games and b112 d1 choke for the people that like to hold up when put in block strings.

 

[OnizukaPM]

Thx man

His 212/F3B2/B23 are neutral on block? Also if i want to cancel blockstring into choke i have to do this before last hit of string right?;]

 

[Sao87]

Thx man

His 212/F3B2/B23 are neutral on block? Also if i want to cancel blockstring into choke i have to do this before last hit of string right?;]

I'm not sure about the advantage/disadvantage on the rest of those strings. Some strings are special cancelable at the end like f11, others are cancelable mid string but not at the end.

Just need to hit training mode and trial and error strings, but in theory if you are ending strings early with choke (neutral situation) which is better then being -frames. I assume this is the type of offense you are trying to mess around with?

 

[Somberness]

b+1 - 0
b+112 - 0
f+1 - 0
f+11 - 0
d+1 - -13
d+3 - -7
d+4 - 0
choke - -1

 

[Sao87]

b+1 - 0
b+112 - 0
f+1 - 0
f+11 - 0
d+1 - -13
d+3 - -7
d+4 - 0
choke - -1

I stand corrected! This guy is a frame data wizard. Btw I have some advantage/disadvantage questions for you about other characters xxz, expect a pm from me in the near future =D.

This doesn't change the effectiveness of the d1 choke/f11 frame trap set ups though, the only things you have to fear are spin/reptile dash which is decided by a coin flip.

 

[cyke_out]

I thought 2,1,2 and f+3, b+2 are all somewhat safe on block.

 

[OnizukaPM]

b+1 - 0
b+112 - 0
f+1 - 0
f+11 - 0
d+1 - -13
d+3 - -7
d+4 - 0
choke - -1

THX

 

[cyke_out]

So let's see.

f+1,1 on hit provides great frame advatange, according to tom brady's living guide kano can do a b+1,1,2 and it can't be interupted so the opponent will have to block it, or he's eating 33%. So he blocks the b+1,1,2 and you can now check with an up-ball, a choke, a d+1 or a throw

If f+1,1, is blocked, Kano can still check with up-ball/choke/throw

I kinda want to make a Kano frame trap flow chart.

 

[I$AAC]

I'm actually in the middle of making a complete Kano guide for TYM. I'm compiling everything I seein the Kano forums as well as personal experience with him in tourneys. Should be up in about a week or 2.

 

[Feel_The_Byrne]

@ cyke _out
Not only that once your opponent starts blocking the d1(choke) after your strings, you can:
Tic throw after a f1 , f11 , or b1
Put your opponent into a 50-50(I find this easiest after f11, especially when your opponent blocks low to try and avoid the string) Now this isn't a true 50-50 but it still catches people out.
Repeat either f11 or b112 again.

 

[Ruuku1012]

I'm actually in the middle of making a complete Kano guide for TYM. I'm compiling everything I seein the Kano forums as well as personal experience with him in tourneys. Should be up in about a week or 2.

If you do that, I think it would be a great idea to make it a community guide to replace the incomplete one we currently have. I see a lot of individual threads talking about combos or mix ups when it probably would be better to have it all in the same thread.

 

[funkdoc]

Florida doin work in this forum, I see! I'm down to help if you all want.

Also, 212 and f3b2 are safe but - on block. It's a decent enough disadvantage that you can't comfortably poke afterward, which is why I generally stick with b+112. Same goes for b2f1.

Oh yeah, and I'm pretty sure that f+12 is also 0 on block. It has a much longer recovery though, so it's not nearly as effective for tick throws and such.

Also, I find myself using a lot of d3 in pressure these days. Even though -7 looks bad on paper, it has almost no blockstun so it's hard for the opponent to counterpoke afterward on reaction. And it's +3 on hit, and it avoids the jabs which will beat your other main pressure tools. Against the likes of KL/Sonya/Sektor this is pretty much all you have, lol.

One last bit of frame data from Somberness which he hasn't posted: d4 is +12 on hit! Too bad it's kinda hard to set up in your routine offense...

EDIT: Oh yeah, and I haven't used d1 -> choke in forever. It whiffs on everyone if they crouch block, even the characters on whom choke by itself connects on crouch block (e.g. Raiden, Freddy, Sheeva). However, I just figured out that d3 -> choke connects on these characters from point blank range...that's actually useful since dashing d3's are so common, have to start working that in now!

Weird thing is, d3 -> choke won't connect on Noob even though choke by itself will. Guess it's time to make another thread...

 

[cyke_out]

According to Tom Brady's living guyide, d+4 on hit gives enough advantage to where b+1,1,2 is unescapable by jumping or interupting, so they are forced to block, setting up more frame traps/mix-ups.

 

[Sigmar]

try doing 212 i find people like to move right into it, it's really good.. no need for any 1s..

 

[cyke_out]

Haha, Sigmar, nice name, but Khorn is where it is at! Kano would totallty whrship that god.

 

[Full Boat]

So let's see.

f+1,1 on hit provides great frame advatange, according to tom brady's living guide kano can do a b+1,1,2 and it can't be interupted so the opponent will have to block it, or he's eating 33%. So he blocks the b+1,1,2 and you can now check with an up-ball, a choke, a d+1 or a throw

If f+1,1, is blocked, Kano can still check with up-ball/choke/throw

I kinda want to make a Kano frame trap flow chart.

If you do 212 or b112 on block, they can't interrupt an up-ball EXCEPT if they do a 6 or less frame move. I've been hit many times by a KL spin before my upball comes out after a blocked string. Against Kung Lao, don't do anything after a blocked string except d1.

 

[cyke_out]

If you do 212 or b112 on block, they can't interrupt an up-ball EXCEPT if they do a 6 or less frame move. I've been hit many times by a KL spin before my upball comes out after a blocked string. Against Kung Lao, don't do anything after a blocked string except d1.

Interesting, I've been hit after b+112 by a spin a few times, I just assumed it was lag or user error on my part. Now I know it was just good old fashoined ignorance.