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Kano Changes Prediction Thread

Circus

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
It's been about two months now and some of the dust has settled. I think it's a good time for Kano players to come together and try to brainstorm what changes Kano should get in an incoming patch that'd benefit him without making him overpowered in any way.

Kano has many useable tools, but his biggest weakness right now is that his risk/reward is heavily not in his favor.

The general opinion at the moment is that Kano needs to D1xxKanoBall to fill the holes in this game. His lack of any safe mid or low attack faster than 16frames makes it so he has to rely on his D1 much more than other characters. The issue with this is that if an opponent does anything safe vs Kano, it is generally a good idea for the opponent to just D1/D3 afterward because they only risk getting tagged by a 2% D1. The Kano player could fully commit to using F2 or B2 to check the opponent with something beefier than D1, but because both F2 and B2 are full combo punishable and don't lead to anything crazy damage-wise, it is kind of the risk-equivalent of just raw KanoBalling from point blank range. B4 is a good tool to use instead of D1 at times though.

The changes to Kano have to keep these problems in mind.

Should NRS fill the hole in Kano's entirely with some buffs?
Or should NRS buff other aspects of Kano to make up for this hole in his game?


Possible Buffs That Take Fill The Hole in His Game:

1. Make F2 a Mid instead of a Low and make it -7 on block.

2. Make F1 a Mid instead of a High
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Possible Buffs That Improve Kano's Strengths:

1. Make D1 more + on hit.

2. Make Lumbar Check do more damage (this would add onto his general combo damage and raw command grabs would be more rewarding).

3. Make the second and third hits of 241+3 hit more reliably. (At the moment there are times where the first hit of 241+3 hits and the second hit whiffs, and other times where the hits of 241+3 whiff an airborne opponent if they aren't super close and exactly right in front of Kano).

4. Make 24 safe on block (this would give him a stagger).

5. Make B3 14frame startup

6. Make Knife Toss 16 frame startup

7. Make 112 Special Cancellable

8. Make the second hit of F12 not whiff on crouch block

9. Make D1 6frame startup

10. Make the second hit of F12 a Mid instead of a High
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If it was up to me, I'd choose 3, 4, and 7 from the Improve Strengths list.

What do you other Kano players think?
Which would you choose?
Any additions to the lists?
 
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Vslayer

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
F1 being a mid is a buff that NEEDS to happen, an advancing move that's a high is pretty damn dangerous (I do F1 into grab but that's dumb as hell and once people figure that out I'm getting D2 KB'ed).

I agree with your choices, he needs more mids and he would benefit from a stagger a lot. If they give him that, fix some whiffing issues then I think he'll be really solid and won't have to rely on D1 so much.
 
CriticalDrop

CriticalDrop

Beers, grabs & dropped combos
All the changes you suggest are very accurate addressing Kano's current needs. I'll point what I think are priorities:
  • Definitely Kano needs more mids. I'd like to see either S2 or F1 (or both, but thats unlikely) being a mid.
  • If we don't have a mid S2, D1 being more plus on hit would be great in order to jail into S2 more consistently, specially online.
  • Make 24 safe on block to give him a stagger.
  • I'll add a faster B2, in order to be a better whiff punish and anti air tool
 
K

kcd117

Kombatant
Imo he is in need of some serious fixes and small buffs.

Fixes:

Give the F1 string a purpose.
Make 24 1+3 stop whiffing when the 2 connects at max range.
Make S2 jail properly after a D1 on hit.
Tweak the hitboxes on his D2 so it doesn't whiff and gets stuffed as much as it does now.
Make Air Kano Ball stop whiffing on crouching opponents.
Change F4 KB requirement to crouch blocking or third time.

Buffs:

Make S1 7 frames startup and 112 cancelable.
Make his F4 completely poke immune.
Make B3 +2 on block.
Speed up the 1+3 part of his 24 1+3 so his mix is not OSable.
Parry starts up in 8 frames.

If I'm being honest, I have to say that these changes would have a substantial impact on his first variation. Without lumbar and his extra strings, he is terrible. I don't think he'll ever be a balanced character across his variations bc if you buff his base kit to the point where he can compete, his first variation would become insane, and if buff him to make his first variation strong, the rest would still be pretty bad.
 
CriticalDrop

CriticalDrop

Beers, grabs & dropped combos
Jhonnykiller45 said:
I dunno what you guys think about this but I wish his Amplified Air Ball wouldn't whiff on crouching opponents.
Click to expand...
To be honest, I think that amplified kano air ball whiffing on crouch is a fair drawback for a move that is hyper fast, has high priority, can be delayed and is practically safe if blocked high. In addition, in my opinion the move is not so essential to his gameplan.
 
kantboy-2

kantboy-2

Ripper
Manhandled should be part of his base set of moves; no characters should have combo paths blocked off because they ran out of time and didn't have anything else to add.

He should still have 2,2,3 and 2,4,1 to mix alongside 2,2,1+3 and 2,4,1+3.

Krushing blows added to Kano ball, 2,2,1+3 and 2,4,1+3.

Amplified Lumbar Check should let you pick to which side you want to drop your opponent.

Add amplify to Eye Laser and make it like Supes heat vision. Shang can do it with freaking souls, for Grodd's sake.

Make Molotov an actual useful move that can be amplified with lighter like Bo Rai Cho does in MKXL.

He needs mids and F4 should be faster, but get screwed if it's blocked.

He's still my favorite character even if the tournament variations are lacking. (Not the one with Lumbar Check)
 
DanCock

DanCock

Cock Master!!
dirtbag main here, all i honestly want to be buffed is the second hit of the f1. 2, B2 string to be a mid. this above all else.

second thing id like to see is the air kano ball amp to not whiff on ducking foes :( its a mid attack, not a high O_O

3rd thing, make d+1 plus 12 on hit.
 
Malec

Malec

Apprentice
The main problem with Kano is the lack of good safe mids. Kanos D1 is good but he has pretty much no advantage on hit, cause every followup is getting low profiled or uppercutted. The opponent is just disrespecting kano, cause they can. Sure kano can follow with another D1 of his own or D1 into kano ball, but D1 has no reward and kano ball is to riski for what it dose.
I pretty much don't care about what they might change, but something has to.

-F1 mid and while we are at it, F1,2 should jail if the f1 was blocked
-B3 beeing neutral or +1/2 on block
-f2/b2 beeing safe
-lumber jack beeing a mid

Any of those or a combination of those would help a lot
 
LEGI0N47

LEGI0N47

I like to play bad characters
Great breakdown on his issues. I'm pretty in line with the OP and I think any way you cut it Kano should get a few buffs and no one can really argue majority of these suggestions would be too much.

The thing that irks me the most is how F4, 3 is not a standard string. I am fine with 22 and 24 1+3 being unique to manhandled. Main reason I want it standard is so that Dirtbag, as well any customs created, can have a KB besides D2, throw, or B3. Honestly only other ones he has are from equipped moves so this would help him overall. There could be even more help if the conditions of it where tweaked. He has a bit of a KB problem compared to many.

Totally agree on the BS that is F1,2 being changed to AT A MINIMUM not whiff on crouch block and the 2 in that string to be mid!

If F1 was made mid that would be great and I see no issue with it being mid, (as well as the 2 being mid and not whiffing on crouch block) since the last hit of the string has a large gap and since most on TYM and twitter can flawless block punish every time there should be zero issue there.

Break.

Most of the thread is talking about general changes that will affect Kano overall. Which I think is great! But since Tourney variations are a thing I have not seen much about the Dirtbag set up. Yes general things will help it but the selectable moves in Dirtbag are so bad! I have posted before that the hitbox on chemical burn is laughably bad. just try it out for 5 min is practice. even in the corner there are so many juggles you can try that it completely whiffs on. further you can attempt to amp it and throw the lighter hitting nothing. Next look at the frame data on it combining it with it's hit box....it's so bad! Yes I know it is possible to the get unblockable damage off a couple normals that actually combo with chem burn IF they press buttons or don't block your D1 and just take the burn. That's if you find an opponent who will let you throw a molotov in the corner which is spacing dependent and has over 1 full second of recovery no matter which knockdown you use it after, not to mention on block or just raw.

There needs to be a hitbox change on chem burn OR give it better frames and a huge recovery buff to molotov. I can't see a way to give those specials KB's and the damage is fine. The frames and hitbox are just so bad. It's too bad because the concept of dirtbag fits him so well.

Guess that became more ranty than just here are my suggestions.
 
Gaxkang

Gaxkang

Banned
It'd be nice if he had something that doesn't start with a high...so I guess that will get changed. Since the whole only highs thing doesn't work in the way the game is set up.

And when I checked out a combo vid for Kano most of them come from like a j2 which is just...not that great.
 
DanCock

DanCock

Cock Master!!
updating my original thoughts

second hit of the f1, 2, B2 string to be a mid and not be treated like a projectile vs jades glow :confused:
make d+1 plus 12 on hit.
dirt bag specific, 1 or 2 krushing blows be added to just this variation. ripper has 5 where this one has 3. dvorahs second variation is the only one with less, with 2. the rest of the kast has 4 (9 variations) or more.
 
Beef Supreme

Beef Supreme

Noob
What about changing Vege-Mighty to effect more than just Kano ball? What if vege buffed chemical burn, knives, molotovs, or f2 to allow for a full popup?

Vege-Mighty now applies the following buff on the following use:
  • Chemical burn range expanded
  • Molotov start up reduced
  • F2 pop now allows for combo followup
  • Knives travel faster
  • etc
And I second adding F43 to base kit but leaving 241+3 and 221+3 in manhandled
 
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E

Erotic_Walrus

Noob
Among other, great ideas I've seen posted here, I would like to see the damage scaling on B2 fixed. Currently, it absolutely guts all damage from follow-up hits, making it far less useful than it appears to be at face value. And it's completely unsafe on block, to boot. One or the other, NRS--but never both.
 
ZATA

ZATA

Noob
F12B2 is 8% of damage, GTFO, B3 is 11% -____-
D1 more hit advantage
F1 a mid
fatal blow is trash
 
Vslayer

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
Circus said:
I just want him to be able to complete better. It sucks knowing well in the back of my mind that I'd be way more successful if I just switched to Jacqui or something.
Click to expand...
Been playing him only in the KL and the struggle is real. Wins are really rewarding tho. He really doesn’t need much to make a big difference. More mids, fixing whiffing issues would help a lot.
 
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