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General/Other - Cybernetic Kano buffs

thlityoursloat

kick kick
*none of these apply to cutthroat so calm your tits if the title triggered you*
What buffs should Cybernetic and Commando receive? As of now, they're not terrible variations but are still very lackluster.

My list:
-b1 is now 5% damage up from 3%
Explaination: This will make B13 a harder hitting punisher and will improve Cyber and Commando's meterless damage, which is something they both lack in.

-b1 is 8 frames
Exp: b1 just isn't all that good any more, it's a GREAT mid, don't get me wrong, I just don't think it's good enough when there are mids like Jason's b3 and Kotal's b1 in the game.

-b1 is safer.
Exp: -8 just.. no.

-b1 can no longer be low profiled.
Self explainatory

-Cyber knife toss does 6% and does 1.5% chip up from 5% and 1% respectively.
Explaination: Disrespecting Cyber's knife toss is as is too easy, trades are too lop sided for a variation that's supposed to specialize in zoning/space control.

-Cyber knife toss is -7 again and ex knives are +7 again.

-Commando's power slam has decreased recovery, WHY is it -40 exactly?

-Cyber db1 is either safer on block or a mid, it just doesn't make sense being a -11 high.
 

MK_Al

Noob
TBH, of all characters in the rooster kano is one of the last on who needs some extra help. The base character is really good and Cybernetic is a very good variation.
b1 is already a very good normal; and it really doesn't mean anything if there are a handfull of other pokes that are better, because it's about the overall character design. Not to mention that this would also mean a buff for Cutthroat (I am not aware that properties of normals change from variation to variation).
The concept of "true mids" with the property of "can not be low profiled" does simply not exist in this game, so the move "works as intended" (and imo it would look stupid if the head high b1 would hit a d4).
As for the power slam recovery I don't really know why say -30 would be much better. I think it's ok for command throws to be full combo punishable on whiff, and a good player will full combo punish it either way.
I also don't understand the idea of making knife toss -7. It is obviously not intended to be used up close on block; at the same time kano has already good and safe strings.
I think I wouldn't care about Cypernetics db1 being a mid though if it really helps.
 

Cashual

PSN: Cansuela
TBH, of all characters in the rooster kano is one of the last on who needs some extra help. The base character is really good and Cybernetic is a very good variation.
b1 is already a very good normal; and it really doesn't mean anything if there are a handfull of other pokes that are better, because it's about the overall character design. Not to mention that this would also mean a buff for Cutthroat (I am not aware that properties of normals change from variation to variation).
The concept of "true mids" with the property of "can not be low profiled" does simply not exist in this game, so the move "works as intended" (and imo it would look stupid if the head high b1 would hit a d4).
As for the power slam recovery I don't really know why say -30 would be much better. I think it's ok for command throws to be full combo punishable on whiff, and a good player will full combo punish it either way.
I also don't understand the idea of making knife toss -7. It is obviously not intended to be used up close on block; at the same time kano has already good and safe strings.
I think I wouldn't care about Cypernetics db1 being a mid though if it really helps.

Here's my issue. You just wrote an entire paragraph from a seemingly "knowledgable" position. However, you don't even realize that kano's b1 is completely different from cybernetic to cutthroat. Diff frame data, different animation. Just stop. And, this isn't unique to Kano. Mileena, Scorpion, Kenshi, and many other characters have totally different buttons and command normals from variation to variation. It's just irritating that you go in to this big rant and explanation about your POV, yet you've spent such little time with the game that you don't know that normals vary from variation to variation.
 

Solomon Gorondy

Should Goro be top 5?
Anyone notice how all 3 of Sonya's variations are powerful, all 3 of Aliens variations are powerful, all 3 of Mileena's variations are powerful, but only one of Kano's variations is powerful? Seriously, Cybernetic and Commando are not very good. Here are the main issues in my opinion...

Commando issues; relies only on his command throws to open people up dealing less than 20% on hit and being full-combo-punished on whiff. Also his high and low parries deal less than 20% and are full-combo-punishable not to mention that many attacks just can't be parried for no logical reason. These moves all end in hard knockdown but at a distance that Commando really isn't comfortable at.

Cybernetic Issues; I'm less experienced with this character but I think the main problem is a lack of an overhead other than air Kano-Ball which is full-combo-punished on block and can be blocked on reaction. The other mix-ups he has are basic hit or throw mix-ups which are pretty cabbage since the throw whiffs against crouching, jumping, and armor, for a measly 12%. His Zoning, while annoying, lacks the damage to make up for his weak offense. His combo damage is nice though and online lag usually favors full-screen zoning.
 

MK_Al

Noob
Here's my issue. You just wrote an entire paragraph from a seemingly "knowledgable" position. However, you don't even realize that kano's b1 is completely different from cybernetic to cutthroat. Diff frame data, different animation. Just stop. And, this isn't unique to Kano. Mileena, Scorpion, Kenshi, and many other characters have totally different buttons and command normals from variation to variation. It's just irritating that you go in to this big rant and explanation about your POV, yet you've spent such little time with the game that you don't know that normals vary from variation to variation.
Huh, how is this a rant? I simply don't agree.
You're right that that the b1's are different, didn't notice. But I don't see how that invalidates my points.
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
Revert all B1 changes to pre-XL and increase the startup of one of the command grabs in Commando to 17 frames.

That's the only thing Cyber really NEEDS per se.

Just give him back his B1 Jesus Christ.

There's literally no reason why that shit is -8.
Remember that part when the Kano community wanted B1 to tick into command grabs in Commando? Yeah, that's why they had to modify B1 as much as they did.

That said, read above for solution.

Cybernetic Issues; I'm less experienced with this character but I think the main problem is a lack of an overhead other than air Kano-Ball which is full-combo-punished on block and can be blocked on reaction.
 

Solomon Gorondy

Should Goro be top 5?
You do understand that can be blocked on reaction does not equate to always blocked on reaction right? If Kano is not near instant with his input, Air Kano Ball is react-able.

Even the great Sonic Fox is not 100% reliable with instant air special moves. Watch his footage using instant air gun-shots; he whiffs or is late with the input on a regular basis. The difference is; if Cassy whiffs, she is full-screen and unlikely to be punished, if she is late, she still fires shots and is unlikely to be punished. Air Kano Ball on the other hand is punished on whiff and punished if late because he is at point blank range at minus 46 frames.
 
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Cashual

PSN: Cansuela
Huh, how is this a rant? I simply don't agree.
You're right that that the b1's are different, didn't notice. But I don't see how that invalidates my points.
Because you're engaging in high level discussion about character balance and changes needed and you are unaware that normals are not universal across variations. It's an epidemic in this community that many of the people with the loudest voices and staunchest opinions about balance and fairness within the game don't even have a basic level of understanding about how the game works.

I'm sorry, but I don't think you or anyone that fails to notice such a basic aspect of the game should be clamoring for one change or another.

And of course it's relevant!! This is a thread about how cybernetic needs changes made to the frame data of his b1, and a crux of your argument is that such a change would inadvertently buff a really strong character in cutthroat. They don't share that move, so your premise is based on a lack of information, which basically to be blunt, means that your opinion is frankly not worth much.

I'm not saying you're bad, not a nice guy, shouldn't have any opinions or anything, but I see it daily that people speak so confidently about the way things SHOULD be, yet they aren't even aware of things actually ARE.
 

Cashual

PSN: Cansuela
You do understand that can be blocked on reaction does not equate to always blocked on reaction right? If Kano is not near instant with his input, Air Kano Ball is react-able.

Even the great Sonic Fox is not 100% reliable with instant air special moves. Watch his footage using instant air gun-shots; he whiffs or is late with the input on a regular basis. The difference is; if Cassy whiffs, she is full-screen and unlikely to be punished, if she is late, she still fires shots and is unlikely to be punished. Air Kano Ball on the other hand is punished on whiff and punished if late because he is at point blank range at minus 46 frames.
You do understand that blocking while standing doesn't necessarily mean you "reacted" to the oh right? People claim that 16f OHs are reactable because they occasionally block them correctly, totally ignoring the fact that sometimes people just guessed correctly. In other words, blocking an IA ball roll doesn't just mean that the player reacted to it. They might have been anticipating the OH ball roll or another high.
 

Cashual

PSN: Cansuela
I apologize. In reading some guy try to justify nerfing scorpion's teleport in the 5 characters who need nerfs thread the other day, and then another guy claiming that ninjutsu scorpion is OP has me totally triggered. Both were completely serious and thought they were making strong points.

I just can't anymore.
 

llabslb

R1D1_998
B1, a 9f advancing mid with a disjointed hit box that can lead into a tick throw and can be meter burned to both break armour and connect on hit. B13 is -2 and can be cancelled into DF1 and be -4. B1 leads into plenty of mind games and is a great normal it self. But it needs buffs? Cool.
 

C88 Zombieekiler

Up and coming sub zero
Yes I do. I agree with the rest of your post.
But do you agree that if Kano waits too long after jumping, air ball can be reacted to?
it cant be reacted to as they could easily do a delay ball or air normal and you dont know if it will be a low or an overhead so no you cannot react and block kano ball.