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General/Other - Takeda Kano B1 abuse vs Takeda

Kanos b1 is 9 frames, his zoning is just ok. Idk why everyone is losing their shit over this character? It's going to become ares all over again, you guys complaining are going to turn a mid tier character and make him shit tier at this point and he hasn't even had a chance yet. In mk9 zoning was really strong as well but as time went on we discovered ways around a characters dirt, even in a bad matchup. Have you guys forgotten about block breakers? I'm sure we aren't properly using all the tools and mechanics this game has to offer. I mean I know we want to play our mains and some matchups are challenging but that's what the different variations are for. If b1 is such a problem find ways around it, I'm sure there are more options. Wether it's a different variation, armored move, throw, or breakers, there's gotta be something better than complaints for characters, just sayin.
His zoning is very strong an its 8f.

Ares was diff. I thought ares was trash day 1, it was 1 stupid thing. He had nothing solid, no mobility spacing or strong zoning.

Kano has good air control, mobility footsies strong zoning, and pressure that can't be escaped by some
 

TheIrishFGCguy

Pew pew pew
What if he had a slower mid hitting projectile with good recovery? Along with fast high.
Not a bad idea. You're right about the laser being point blank too, and I've seen others also bring that up. Considering Cybernetic is a zoning variation, that feels like such a missed opportunity.
 
Not a bad idea. You're right about the laser being point blank too, and I've seen others also bring that up. Considering Cybernetic is a zoning variation, that feels like such a missed opportunity.
I'm not saying it's impoosible to deal with, I'm saying its design is utterly lazier and not even though about and uninteresting.
 

Smoke_Of_Finland

Believe in the hop kick
LOOOOOOOOOL i just went into his Commando variation. not only does he keep b1, but he has an 11 frame command throw, so while i'm sitting there block b1's all day he can just open me up with a command throw!!! THE FUCKING NERVE some of you have over here saying kano doesn't have options without b1 WOW.
You don't need to use combo breakers against commando, midscreen he will only do 26% max with one bar from 1,1,2-ex choke. You can armor him anytime you want and he won't even punish you hard if he blocks. Without b1 he can't force you to block and you are free to go full retard with bunny hopping in an attempt to avoid his command grabs which can be njp'd or crossover jump punch punished on a read.
 

ando1184

Noob
His zoning is very strong an its 8f.

Ares was diff. I thought ares was trash day 1, it was 1 stupid thing. He had nothing solid, no mobility spacing or strong zoning.

Kano has good air control, mobility footsies strong zoning, and pressure that can't be escaped by some
His zoning is overrated , you wanna talk about good zoning look at liu kang with his low FB it does more DMG, is really fast, and has great recovery. Reptile his spit is just as fast as kanos knives, yes it's high but he can have 2 orbs on screen while spitting at you. Jacqi's machine gun, does liu kang FB DMG and can convert into a combo setup if you get too close. Those are good zoners, you guys need to stop complaining about a 5% mid that only gets a situational combo if it's MB and at a specific distance and does 18%. It's week 3, let's not destroy a character because we are too lazy to go to training mode and deal with the situation. Let's also not base our experiences online as a deciding factor, we know all zoning is stupid there.
 
His zoning is overrated , you wanna talk about good zoning look at liu kang with his low FB it does more DMG, is really fast, and has great recovery. Reptile his spit is just as fast as kanos knives, yes it's high but he can have 2 orbs on screen while spitting at you. Jacqi's machine gun, does liu kang FB DMG and can convert into a combo setup if you get too close. Those are good zoners, you guys need to stop complaining about a 5% mid that only gets a situational combo if it's MB and at a specific distance and does 18%. It's week 3, let's not destroy a character because we are too lazy to go to training mode and deal with the situation. Let's also not base our experiences online as a deciding factor, we know all zoning is stupid there.

Quans zoning is ten times better than all of those combined and imo Kanos is stronger than Kangs. I'm also complaining about the laziness of its design. Also jaqcuis can be neutral ducked, also my char outzones Kano.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
You realize that he has no 50/50 mixup.. -4 is too much and will render his b1pressure useless.. -2 at most and with same recovery. Already at -1 every character would be able to get out and even punish staggers.. See absolutely no point in making it -4.
Do your research, fool. b+1,3 is already -1. If b+1 is -3 or -4 on block, the new meta game could potentially be b+1, b+1 or b+1,3 or b+1, d+4.

You want to have access to one of the best zoning games. Then, when your opponent closes the cap, you want to have access to Cage's Mortal Kombat 9 f+3. I mean, you are just a spoiled brat who, I hope, quits Kano and moves onto the next top tier character. You could not win with broken ass Martian Manhunter, so now you are essentially trying to justify a block infinite combo to hide the fact that you are a mediocre fighting game player.

lMM at Combo Breaker, Cyber Kano vs Shirai Ryu Takeda, Ft10 character lock, NAME THE TIME, NAME THE AMOUNT SON!!!!
I am not traveling, much less accepting money matches in which my character is locked, until I know exactly what will happen to Kano and b+1. When I find out, I am down for FT10 for $100.
 

Smoke_Of_Finland

Believe in the hop kick
Please NEVER suggest d2 as a counter poke move or a solution for someone's pressure again. This isn't MK9/IGAU. D2s are VERY punishable on whiff/block.

As far as I'm concerned, d2s should only be used to anti-air.
Takeda's d2 is only -11 on block. Kano can't punish it. Considering the huge pusback, Maybe Lao, Reptile or Mileena can, but it's practically safe since d4 is the worst thing he'll eat for having it blocked most of the time and even that is inconsistent.
 

ando1184

Noob
Quans zoning is ten times better than all of those combined and imo Kanos is stronger than Kangs. I'm also complaining about the laziness of its design
Yeh I do agree with you there but he definitely needs all the tools he has. Cyber probably would have been better if it had more cyber-esc lazers for zoning instead of knives. His mid knives could have been better directed to cutthroat since it's heavily designed on his knives. But because he is now what he is, I don't think anything should be unnecessarily nerfed. That's my only argument in all of this. B1 may be a problem for takeda but it's not OP and I'm sure later down the line someone will find an answer for it.

Edit: I honestly think block breakers should only be one bar
 
Yeh I do agree with you there but he definitely needs all the tools he has. Cyber probably would have been better if it had more cyber-esc lazers for zoning instead of knives. His mid knives could have been better directed to cutthroat since it's heavily designed on his knives. But because he is now what he is, I don't think anything should be unnecessarily nerfed. That's my only argument in all of this. B1 may be a problem for takeda but it's not OP and I'm sure later down the line someone will find an answer for it.

Edit: I honestly think block breakers should only be one bar
If you want the mechanic in, make it useful.
 

Gengar

Hypnosis > Dreameater (its a reset)
N even freaking eye laser are safe as long as you are not bumping chests with the opponent lol. I
Do you not know how High attacks work? fucking neutral duck, problem solved. 112~lazer whiffs if you neutral, just like sub ice ball. stand and punish accordingly.

its alarming the kind of shit people bitch about with out actively trying to find an answer. also, regarding the main topic of the thread, does takeda have any normals that lower his hitbox enough to avoid the b1? i know that cassie can duck certain mids
 
Yeh I do agree with you there but he definitely needs all the tools he has. Cyber probably would have been better if it had more cyber-esc lazers for zoning instead of knives. His mid knives could have been better directed to cutthroat since it's heavily designed on his knives. But because he is now what he is, I don't think anything should be unnecessarily nerfed. That's my only argument in all of this. B1 may be a problem for takeda but it's not OP and I'm sure later down the line someone will find an answer for it.

Edit: I honestly think block breakers should only be one bar
Takeda has no answers, the only answer to kanos b1 now, is looking like this stupid of while blocking where you can mash normals, funny thing is quan can't hit confirm and half the time it trades.
 
The safe and meter-less vortex is dumb, but Quan Chi has one major weakness - he cannot get up from the ground in a heavy 50/50 mix up and rush down oriented game.
Well that makes him stupidly polarizing and is the definition of a lack of balance. Maybe nerf is dumb shit and buff his wake up.

If you really wanted too you could probably master son unblock able reset with quan...
 

MrInsaynne

PG Coach Steve
I lol'd at many things I've just read. Please continue to entertain me, people. Thank you!

Zyphox trust me I understand your frustration and I understand where Takeda is weak. He needs a little more than what he has. B1 makes that match near impossible it seems.
 

TotteryManx

cr. HP Master
Do you not know how High attacks work? fucking neutral duck, problem solved. 112~lazer whiffs if you neutral, just like sub ice ball. stand and punish accordingly.

its alarming the kind of shit people bitch about with out actively trying to find an answer. also, regarding the main topic of the thread, does takeda have any normals that lower his hitbox enough to avoid the b1? i know that cassie can duck certain mids
As I stated. Eye laser can be pretty safe at maximum reach. Your whole, "crouch under it" does not change that. I'm pointing out the safeness of it all, not how to crouch under it. Keep reaching ppl.
 

Gengar

Hypnosis > Dreameater (its a reset)
As I stated. Eye laser can be pretty safe at maximum reach. Your whole, "crouch under it" does not change that. I'm pointing out the safeness of it all, not how to crouch under it. Keep reaching ppl.
At bare minimum you can poke it every time with d4/3. Its range is not that absured that it out ranges these normals, maybe a few characters but the majority of the cast can do this. And you can do this as soon as youre done blocking since d4/3 will maintain your crouched status and will not allow the high lazer to hit you. No need to wait for the active frames to fade so you can stand up and do your punish, you can simply poke him out of it if you feel hes too far or are not confident in the punish.
 

Zyphox

What is going on guys, Ya Boi Zyphox here.
I lol'd at many things I've just read. Please continue to entertain me, people. Thank you!

Zyphox trust me I understand your frustration and I understand where Takeda is weak. He needs a little more than what he has. B1 makes that match near impossible it seems.
thanks man, all i want is an option, you played against art, was it ever super hard to get in on him using takeda? and with cyber kano you dont even have to approach takeda. people make is seem like takeda has a godlike tool thats broken in b21, and that if they were to get in they should be rewarded LOL, but as soon as you block anything i do you can start pressure against me, well certain characters. so takeda has to suffer because people dont know how to deal with him yet.
 

Lord Hollow

The Sage Of Michigan.
Cyber Kano has no overhead. No real way to open the opponent other than forcing you to make mistakes, then capitalizing off them. His B1 is a part of that strategy. With the training mode this game provides, there are absolutely no excuses any player can have about that one normal. If they spent half the time complaining and put it towards finding a solution, they would have been deleted this thread. Suck it up and figure it out. Not sure what the original poster was looking for, here. Sympathy?
 

Apex Kano

Kano Commando main MKX
I knew this was gonna be a problem when I was messing around with Kano's b1 and thought about Takeda. I think Takeda's character design is cool but this is the reason I didn't want to pick him up. He needs faster crouching normals and at least one of his standing mids or jab string needs to be faster. 6 frame d1 would be a saving grace for this character.

As for people saying Cybernetic/commando Kano b1 needs to get nerfed... I seriously implore you to never have children or operate any heavy machinery. You should also sell your car and turn in your driver's license at the nearest police station. B1 can be backdashed midscreen, even by Takeda if timed properly and the range is correct. The worst thing that Kano can do is keep repeating this, or throw you. If b1 gets nerfed Commando Kano becomes absolute gutter tier. B1 by itself can not be hitconfirmed into the 3 follow-up, this isn't a big deal come on.
Thank you! This game is only 3 weeks out and people want nerfs for things they refuse to learn not to beat. #NoNerfKano