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Joker MU Chart 12-3-17

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
Okay Doctor Fate is going to zone every character in the game, lets get that out there first. Just because Fate is zoning you doesnt mean it's a bad MU -- please try to understand this. So joker gets zoned by Fate like every other character, he has to respect the F2 like every other character and he has to deal with the wakeup like every other character (except not really cause he has teeth to throw down).

So every point you've made does not relate to joker v fate specifically (zoned out, beaten by f2, has to deal with wakeup). Every character has these problems against Doctor Fate, as they should, its up to you as a player to find specific answers with your character. All the points you made are relevant to why Doctor Fate is a good character and on the other side you essentially say nothing about the Joker as a character and what his gameplan is. You seem to have a tenuous understanding of what the joker is supposed to do in general since you offer no insight.

This is your breakdown of the MU:

Doctor Fate's fireballs (joker has no options)
Fate's f2 (no options)
Fate's Wakeup (no options)

So why see why its tough to believe you or even think you have the right intentions here..

No I get what you're saying. I was simply putting what beats joker and as I stated prior about f2 and etc, joker has to make the proper read to handle that and the big ankh, like parry the f2, but if the fate reads that, it's a full punish so it's not a favorable option. Also mb f/b3 but f2 cancel to big ankh breaks armor so again unfavorable. Just some examples.

The only tool joker has to combat all of fates zoning tools is mb gun to stop fate, however Fate recovers fast enough on most of his projectiles to block it and once trait is out and fate has his stuff going, nothing is favorable for joker full or midscreen. Mb rolling in gets joker hit with f2 and joker has to take it, rather blocking or being punished for the roll. Basically, the only way joker is going to successfully get in is by making the proper read.

Now, Fate getting knocked down. As I said earlier, Fate has a wake up that needs to be respected. Jokers go to option, mb f/b3. Teeth can be ignored by delayed wake up. The teeth f3 setup can be whiffed over delayed wake up and punished or fate can start to apply pressure. Now of course joker can make the read on fates delayed wake up and delay teeth but that, again, is a READ.

This is very much a read-based MU heavily favorable to Fate. Was that a bit better?

I'm being very general but if there's something specific you would like to talk about I'm open to that as I stated in my thread.
 
Okay Doctor Fate is going to zone every character in the game, lets get that out there first. Just because Fate is zoning you doesnt mean it's a bad MU -- please try to understand this. So joker gets zoned by Fate like every other character, he has to respect the F2 like every other character and he has to deal with the wakeup like every other character (except not really cause he has teeth to throw down).

So every point you've made does not relate to joker v fate specifically (zoned out, beaten by f2, has to deal with wakeup). Every character has these problems against Doctor Fate, as they should, its up to you as a player to find specific answers with your character. All the points you made are relevant to why Doctor Fate is a good character and on the other side you essentially say nothing about the Joker as a character and what his gameplan is. You seem to have a tenuous understanding of what the joker is supposed to do in general since you offer no insight.

This is your breakdown of the MU:

Doctor Fate's fireballs (joker has no options)
Fate's f2 (no options)
Fate's Wakeup (no options)

So why see why its tough to believe you or even think you have the right intentions here..
Just stop it. Joker doesn’t have much if anything to reliably get past Dr Fates orbs or ankhs. This is not even getting to where Fate gets much better trades off of his projectiles, sends joker full screen with his wake up, and outspaces joker with his F2 to send him fullscreen into an orb ankh or trait. Jokers best chance in the MU is to hope for trades with mb gun or regular gun to push you into the corner and that’s the only reason why it’s not a 2-8 MU or worse. You think you’re really getting in on Fate with Joker’s sluggish walkspeed ? Dr Fate beats Joker anywhere on the screen except during the unlikely chance you get to corner Fate.

Joker’s ways to get in ?
Jump like a maniac to get in cause he has bad neutral ?
Hopefully get on an interactable depending on the stage ?
MB Roll in and eat a MB orb or throw or F2 glyph ?
 

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
Just stop it. Joker doesn’t have much if anything to reliably get past Dr Fates orbs or ankhs. This is not even getting to where Fate gets much better trades off of his projectiles, sends joker full screen with his wake up, and outspaces joker with his F2 to send him fullscreen into an orb ankh or trait. Jokers best chance in the MU is to hope for trades with mb gun or regular gun to push you into the corner and that’s the only reason why it’s not a 2-8 MU or worse. You think you’re really getting in on Fate with Joker’s sluggish walkspeed ? Dr Fate beats Joker anywhere on the screen except during the unlikely chance you get to corner Fate.

Joker’s ways to get in ?
Jump like a maniac to get in cause he has bad neutral ?
Hopefully get on an interactable depending on the stage ?
MB Roll in and eat a MB orb or throw or F2 glyph ?
Jesus my dude went in lmao @DubiousShenron in short, if you're a fate player and your getting blasted by joker, he's outplaying you to the max. If your doing bad vs joker and want some games I'm down to help. Add me on PSN: Vengeance135
 

Vex

Noob
@Vengeance135 Fate wins 3-7 cause he has better zoning? Fate is obviously supposed to have better zoning than Joker so let’s reset it to 5-5.

Want to try again?

Edit: So Fate 3-7s all the characters with lesser zoning tools cause he out zones them? You should be ashamed of yourself honestly..
Wanted to throw up after seeing this comment.
 

DubiousShenron

Beware my power.
No I do not main doctor fate and the point is now irrelevant because the text has been changed. In short @Vengeance135 stated that Joker lost to Fate 3-7 because Fate ‘out zoned him’. My point was that by that logic, or lack thereof, Fate 3-7s the entire cast because he out zones them too. Just pointing out that the statement is either, “a” incomplete or “b” makes no logical sense. That is all.
 

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
No I do not main doctor fate and the point is now irrelevant because the text has been changed. In short @Vengeance135 stated that Joker lost to Fate 3-7 because Fate ‘out zoned him’. My point was that by that logic, or lack thereof, Fate 3-7s the entire cast because he out zones them too. Just pointing out that the statement is either, “a” incomplete or “b” makes no logical sense. That is all.

I see, well I hope I clarified any confusion as to what I meant.
 

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
Agree with Cheetah
Look, Idk if you get this a lot but can we get some games in? Lol the bulk of what I got as to why cheetah wins is through labbing and any cheetah I ran across online.

Idk why but cheetah players only do a couple games then leave rather they win or lose. I would like to get a better understanding of this MU. I don't think I'm entirely that bad lol
 

RevetLeafing

Tanya, Tanqui, and Kaprisun Specialist
Look, Idk if you get this a lot but can we get some games in? Lol the bulk of what I got as to why cheetah wins is through labbing and any cheetah I ran across online.

Idk why but cheetah players only do a couple games then leave rather they win or lose. I would like to get a better understanding of this MU. I don't think I'm entirely that bad lol
Sure, add me on PSN Revetleafing, let me knwo your psn so I can look out for it
 

DeftMonk

Noob
Okay Doctor Fate is going to zone every character in the game, lets get that out there first. Just because Fate is zoning you doesnt mean it's a bad MU -- please try to understand this. So joker gets zoned by Fate like every other character, he has to respect the F2 like every other character and he has to deal with the wakeup like every other character (except not really cause he has teeth to throw down).

So every point you've made does not relate to joker v fate specifically (zoned out, beaten by f2, has to deal with wakeup). Every character has these problems against Doctor Fate, as they should, its up to you as a player to find specific answers with your character. All the points you made are relevant to why Doctor Fate is a good character and on the other side you essentially say nothing about the Joker as a character and what his gameplan is. You seem to have a tenuous understanding of what the joker is supposed to do in general since you offer no insight.

This is your breakdown of the MU:

Doctor Fate's fireballs (joker has no options)
Fate's f2 (no options)
Fate's Wakeup (no options)

So why see why its tough to believe you or even think you have the right intentions here..
So obviously you have a much greater understanding...Why don't you try a ft10 in a joker mirror? if omgxbidon and veng both say its 3-7 ill just assume it is.
 

DubiousShenron

Beware my power.
So obviously you have a much greater understanding...Why don't you try a ft10 in a joker mirror? if omgxbidon and veng both say its 3-7 ill just assume it is.
No I do not main doctor fate and the point is now irrelevant because the text has been changed. In short @Vengeance135 stated that Joker lost to Fate 3-7 because Fate ‘out zoned him’. My point was that by that logic, or lack thereof, Fate 3-7s the entire cast because he out zones them too. Just pointing out that the statement is either, “a” incomplete or “b” makes no logical sense. That is all.
 

Savage8-8

Premium Supporter
Premium Supporter
This is the kind of shit that irks me. A joker player makes a tier list based off his opinion and is open to discussing it, then people who come in the thread with no contribution talk shit about the player base. Knowing Damn well y'all don't play the fucking character but quick to tell us how good the character is and we don't know shit about the matchups. Y'all need to take a back seat with this bullshit. There isnt much joker discussion on this forum bc his player base is small. So id love to know why joker players don't know shit about the character. If you can't tell anybody why then shut tf up.