Menu
By:
Filters
What's new

Joker Matchup Discusion (w/ Chart)

GJX7

GJX7

Your Mediocrity Is Killing Me
Welcome!

Please Note:
This chart will be constantly updated as the discussion moves forward, please share your opinions!


Joker Match-up Chart:
Aquaman 5 - 5
Atrocitus 5 - 5
Bane 5 - 5
Batman 4 - 6
Black Adam 4 - 6
Black Canary 5 - 5
Black Manta 4 - 6
Blue Beetle 4 - 6
Brainiac 4 - 6
Captain Cold 5 - 5
Catwoman 4 - 6
Cheetah 4 - 6
Cyborg 5 - 5
Darkseid 4 - 6
Deadshot 5 - 5
Doctor Fate 3 - 7
Firestorm 4 - 6
The Flash 4 - 6
Green Arrow 4 - 6
Green Lantern 5 - 5
Gorilla Grodd 6 - 4
Harley Quinn 5 - 5
Hellboy 4 - 6
Poison Ivy 4 - 6
Raiden 5 - 5
Red Hood 4 - 6
Robin 5 - 5
Scarecrow 4 - 6
Starfire 4 - 6
Sub-zero 5 - 5
Supergirl 4 - 6
Superman 4 - 6
Swamp Thing 5 - 5
Wonder Woman 4 - 6

Win: 1
Even: 13
Loss: 19
 
Last edited:
xKhaoTik

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
I haven’t played a joker since the patch but what makes the MU in his favor now against Ivy?
 
Vex

Vex

Noob
So I'm assuming you're reasoning for the Ivy mu is that Ivy has bad wakeups/anti-air, but there is no way this matchup is in our favor. Like many characters, we have to hold her zoning (especially with trait). At best, we can make a read and punish your start up for drill, but it'll not like it grants us options aside from dashing in. More importantly, ivy's neutral annihilates joker when he gets closer. Joker's jump ins (even that far ranged J3) will all get beat by ivy's B3. In addition, Joker doesn't have anything to compete in the neutral against Ivy's B2 (or B1 I forgot).

It's frustrating to get in, but we can be patient ok. Then we get in, and we have to compete in the neutral where Ivy has the strong advantage.

To me, those short two points are enough to tell me that this MU is either 5-5 or 4-6. Only reason why it'd be even is because we can destroy ivy on knockdown.
 
Vengeance135

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
GJX7 said:
Welcome!

Please Note:
This chart will be constantly updated as the discussion moves forward, please share your opinions!


Joker Match-up Chart:
Aquaman 6 - 4
Atrocitus 6 - 4
Bane 6 - 4
Batman 5 - 5
Black Adam 4 - 6
Black Canary 6 - 4
Black Manta 6 - 4
Blue Beetle 4 - 6
Brainiac 4 - 6
Captain Cold 5 - 5
Catwoman 4 - 6
Cheetah 4 - 6
Cyborg 6 - 4
Darkseid 4 - 6
Deadshot 5 - 5
Doctor Fate 3 - 7
Firestorm 5 - 5
The Flash 4 - 6
Green Arrow 4 - 6
Green Lantern 5 - 5
Gorilla Grodd 6 - 4
Harley Quinn 5 - 5
Hellboy 4 - 6
Poison Ivy 6 - 4
Raiden 5 - 5
Red Hood 4 - 6
Robin 6 - 4
Scarecrow 4 - 6
Starfire 4 - 6
Sub-zero 6 - 4
Supergirl 3 - 7
Superman 3 - 7
Swamp Thing 6 - 4
Wonder Woman 4 - 6

Win: 11
Even: 7
Loss: 16
Click to expand...
I disagree with half this chart.

Atrocitus is definitely a 5-5
Bane is definitely a 5-5
Batman wins 6-4
Black Manta definitely wins 6-4
Canary is a 5-5
Cyborg is a 5-5
Deadshot wins 6-4
Firestorm wins 6-4
Hellboy hasn't been out long enough
Poison ivy definitely wins 6-4
No idea on raiden
Robin is a 5-5
Sub zero is a 5-5, possibly a 6-4 his favor

Just curious, do you main joker or play him at a high level?

Joker can make people look free when they don't know the MU.

Win: 3
Even: 8
Losing: 20

I left out a few because I don't have enough experience or they haven't been out long enough.

@xKhaoTik nothing changed about that MU. She still wins, I agree with everything @Vex said
 
Last edited:
Tweedy

Tweedy

Champion
You guys are just really bad vs Superman imo. Joker controls the zoning easily with his gun. Superman has to spend meter on each air laser to avoid being punished and grounded lasers just get stuffed. Joker doesn't get bullied that badly because of his 6 frame d1.

I outzone Supermans all day with Hellboy who basically has the same zoning as Joker. Joker not having an upward shot is irrelevant vs Superman because he punishes non mb lasers with regular gun shot. If you don't mess up, you'll mathematically outzone Superman. There's really no debate here. He's not going to win by chipping you with mb air lasers.

I think Superman is probably 5-5. Hellboy winning makes sense, I've been grinding Hellboy and he seems to do better than Superman vs Joker. Joker's gun has a bit of recovery so he has to constantly be afraid of leaps, even if his gun does slightly out damage Hellboy's. Hellboy's anti airs are also great.
 
P

PetulantWaste

Apprentice
Tweedy said:
You guys are just really bad vs Superman imo. Joker controls the zoning easily with his gun. Superman has to spend meter on each air laser to avoid being punished and grounded lasers just get stuffed. Joker doesn't get bullied that badly because of his 6 frame d1.

I outzone Supermans all day with Hellboy who basically has the same zoning as Joker. Joker not having an upward shot is irrelevant vs Superman because he punishes non mb lasers with regular gun shot. If you don't mess up, you'll mathematically outzone Superman. There's really no debate here. He's not going to win by chipping you with mb air lasers.

I think Superman is probably 5-5. Hellboy winning makes sense, I've been grinding Hellboy and he seems to do better than Superman vs Joker. Joker's gun has a bit of recovery so he has to constantly be afraid of leaps, even if his gun does slightly out damage Hellboy's. Hellboy's anti airs are also great.
Click to expand...
Joker does not outzone Superman because of the sheer damage that his lasers do when they hit. It's for real not even close. I feel like you are seriously underselling Superman here.

I have to land 4 shots for every laser.
 
Vengeance135

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
Tweedy said:
You guys are just really bad vs Superman imo. Joker controls the zoning easily with his gun. Superman has to spend meter on each air laser to avoid being punished and grounded lasers just get stuffed. Joker doesn't get bullied that badly because of his 6 frame d1.

I outzone Supermans all day with Hellboy who basically has the same zoning as Joker. Joker not having an upward shot is irrelevant vs Superman because he punishes non mb lasers with regular gun shot. If you don't mess up, you'll mathematically outzone Superman. There's really no debate here. He's not going to win by chipping you with mb air lasers.

I think Superman is probably 5-5. Hellboy winning makes sense, I've been grinding Hellboy and he seems to do better than Superman vs Joker. Joker's gun has a bit of recovery so he has to constantly be afraid of leaps, even if his gun does slightly out damage Hellboy's. Hellboy's anti airs are also great.
Click to expand...
I agree with the zoning... sort of.

There's more to the MU then just zoning though.

Superman can handle jokers zoning much better the other characters with his mobility. The only threat to superman is gunshot. However, superman players can jump, air dash, air dash then mb laser to stay safe, or just dash in after a gunshot whiffs. Joker can't just recklessly be throwing out gunshot because if it whiffs while superman is in the air, lasers punish the recovery of gunshot from up to 3/4's the screen away.

Also, supermans neutral runs this MU. F23 is strong vs joker. I get joker can d1 after f23 when trait is popped but f23 on block and superman can just backdash, throw an armor move to button check joker or neutral jump to button check just to name a few. On block superman can punish almost everything joker throws. Example, jokers blockstrings into crowbar can be punished, into canister can be interrupted or neutral jumped for a full combo punish, into teeth is stupid dangerous vs superman. The only thing superman can't punish consistently is a blockstring to deathspin, which is -7 with some pushback, though the pushback can be inconsistent. @x TeeJay o punished deathspin with canary. In short, joker has to rely on unsafe gimmicks to open superman up and his only semi safe option gives up his turn.

Joker can't jump on superman. Supermans d2 is hella strong in the MU and can be used on reaction, while jokers only way to anti-air is read the jump and d2 or challenge with his j1. But since superman is such a strong whiff punisher, you read wrong and you're getting blown up.

Superman outdamages joker.

In the corner, superman wins. He outdamages joker and has great ways of opening people up. Joker has a strong corner game but joker has to still account for supermans wake ups. Now the only wake up that is of concern to joker is supermans uppercut, which can be stuffed but gives up jokers corner positioning.

If there's anything I haven't covered please let me know lol

I believe I have you added, we should play sometime.
 
Last edited:
GJX7

GJX7

Your Mediocrity Is Killing Me
Vengeance135 said:
By chance are you on PSN? I can give you some joker games if you are ever in the need
Click to expand...
I've been playing joker since the patch so not high level at all, I just realised there was no amazing match up thread and I'm looking to learn him until I do have him at a high level.
My PSN is: GJ_jenko
 
Vengeance135

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
GJX7 said:
I've been playing joker since the patch so not high level at all, I just realised there was no amazing match up thread and I'm looking to learn him until I do have him at a high level.
My PSN is: GJ_jenko
Click to expand...
Join our discord bro, we are more then happy to help!!!
 
Vengeance135

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
PetulantWaste said:
What do you guys do against Black Adam in neutral?
Click to expand...
Honestly, nothing. Try your best to keep him in d2 range but not too close. Have teeth out but don't be reckless because his forward advancing can punish raw teeth throws when in range. My best advice for neutral is play a reactionary game.
 
foxof42

foxof42

Thanksgiving corner game, going ham and stuffing
Just curious, why do you think Cold is 5/5? I've always seen it as 6/4 Joker. Joker's zoning shuts his neutral down pretty hard and he has a stationary wakeup that doesn't knock back so setups on knockdown are pretty much given. I've been counterpicked with Joker when I used Cold regularly. (RIP the Captain.)
 
Vengeance135

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
foxof42 said:
Just curious, why do you think Cold is 5/5? I've always seen it as 6/4 Joker. Joker's zoning shuts his neutral down pretty hard and he has a stationary wakeup that doesn't knock back so setups on knockdown are pretty much given. I've been counterpicked with Joker when I used Cold regularly. (RIP the Captain.)
Click to expand...
We had a discussion with the cold community about this MU. It's pretty much down to a whoever gets started first is most likely going to win. They both don't have a strong neutral. Once both of them start in the corner, they are pretty much eating it. If joker has a decent health lead, he can keep cold out, but if cold has a health lead, he can keep joker out. Both have good ways of controlling the air (colds d2 is hella strong and jokers d2 actually works well because of colds floaty jump). Joker and cold in general can counter each other in the zoning war. Joker with gunshot and d2 and cold with trait, d2, ice wall, ice block, puddle and mb gun to keep joker in check.

There's really nothing in this MU where one excels vs the other imo. Jokers wake up is stationery as well and easier to deal with, though joker can maneuver around it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.