Joining the CSZ Unit

[Saltea Moonspell]

Hey,
So after long time i made my mind to CSZ after seeing clearly how fun and loving his fighting style can be - thank you Pig of te Hut.
UfGlue - Its you who dragged my attention couple months ago in a first place - but then i was focusing only on Kabal and Kabal only. As for today I feel like i can slow down with Kabal and work on 2nd main.

So after 2 days of looking into him and having couple of matches i have some question.
Let me start.

Q1 - How to deal with zoners (i've played average Stryker) who just killed me to death with gun shots. The freeze/Beam is so slow that get interrupted. Teleport is basically used for frozen enemies etc. I started to dash block but this is not practical.

Q2 - While i perform (after frozen opponent) jip, u4~medium bomb cancel the opponent (in this case CPU) is able to go through with ex roll (stryker). Am I to slow with an attack after bomb cancel, or this is just escapable.

Q3 - How do you guys use bombs from far/close etc, Cause right now am kinda throwing them randomly and i feel that this isnt how it is spouse to be.

Q4 - what is the best option after we do ex bomb into beam?

Q5 - with the new dashing system should i dash or teleport or maybe focus on dive kick?

Q6 - While i cancel u4~slide i miss/whiff. It seems to me like there is a specific timing for it, and i cant figure it out just yet. Any tips?

Wiithin time i will update this thread with more questions as they pop.

Thanks guys in advance,
Regards

 

[GamerBlake90]

A1: That right there is Cyber Sub-Zero's weakness: zoning. Teleporting with him is not wise, as it is very unsafe and can be punished. You could try chucking out his Ice Balls and Ice Bombs, but you risk trading projectiles if you do that. A third possible option would be to use a perfectly spaced divekick so as to approach the target, but the risk for this is also high.

A2: As of late, the Wake-Up system has been enhanced so that it has ten invincibility frames upon execution (if I am mistaken, another user may correct me), so this is certainly escapable. Trying to pressure after the u4 Bomb Cancel doesn't make it unblockable, after all. Sometimes you'll want to parry after the cancel in case they try an armored move, or try to cross 'em up, or bait out their Wake-Up and counter. Of course, this is something to worry about if you do the bomb cancel while the frozen target is airborne; if on the ground, the danger isn't as high.

A3: No, you most certainly do not throw the bombs randomly. As stated in my first answer, you risk trading projectiles by doing that. Try to adjust your timing with the bombs from a distance so that the opponent won't expect it and may try to jump or teleport to escape it, which is when you punish accordingly.

A4: If you use this tactic and they are frozen, I would follow this with a Teleport, bounce (or neutral jump-punch), and then u4 into Bomb Cancel and go from there. Keep in mind, you usually want to do the long-distance divekick following a set of Enhanced Ice Bombs as it serves as an attack trap of sorts.

A5: Cyber Sub-Zero's dash is still the fastest in the game, so don't neglect it. Dash-blocking is also potent, so practice it up. The Teleport and divekick must be used sparingly so that your opponent will learn to respect it, not expect it - shout-outs to Pig of the Hut for his guide.

Hopefully my input is accurate. If it doesn't work out, you'll want to hit up guys like Altaire, Pig of the Hut, and UsedforGlue for advice on Cyber Sub-Zero, as they are true experts with the character and I've just begun getting the hang of him myself.

 

[Saltea Moonspell]

Thanks a lot brah. I've been onto UFGlue's guide that i found while ago (before i posted these questions)
I can see that with CSZ its sorta long ride. I value such game play that requires some more thinking and practice. As Kabal is his worst mu I do main him so when it will come to face Kabal I am ready to go for a mirror. I will be practicing and observing. I would really like to operate Cyber as one of these guys.

 

[GetMindFxcked]

I'm also just getting into csz. He looks very interesting and fun to play.

 

[UsedForGlue]

One of things you have to deal with as a dedicated CSZ player is that, you will lose to players who might not necessarily be better than you, who just have the match up choice on you.

For example, you will lose to poor players who use Kabal, Sub Zero, Kitana and Mileena. Jax has also become one of his worst matches as cannot be parried anymore. These characters are notoriously known for ruining anything CSZ can do, and thats just a fact.

So you will mostly be fighting an up hill battle that you sometimes just can't win, no matter how hard you focus, and against players that are good players with those particular characters, it gets even worse. So start coming to terms with that and everything will fall into place.

The next thing is to find your own style, cyber sub zero is one of the most free form and free thinking characters.

Don't think of the parry as a good option for defence, your options will always be, block and punish, try getting your parry worked into the opponents strings, such as watching sub zero doing and parry the last , or his , then parry his next . Don't depend on the parry for full defence as it comes as the price of your pokes, so get d3 in place for protecting yourself, or use instant short dive kicks instead of using d1.

 

[GuamoKun]

Q3: I like to do bombs when the opponent is grounded, forcing the opponent most of the time to act and trying to punish any possible mistake they might make.

Some strings are good for canceling into bombs, like his f221.

I cover some uses for bombs and other less popular strings in this post.

http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?12271-Its-time-I-contribute-to-Cyber-Sub...

Q6: Well when you do the u4, the opponent has to positioned higher than you so that the slide will connect.

If the opponent is frozen and they aren't high enough for u4 slide, then do a njp.

Sometimes the opponent won't stay frozen long enough so use your own judgement.

 

[Altaire]

Q1 - Cyber Sub can punish MOST zoners with reaction divekicks, but not all. Ideally, you'll want to stay at around 4/5ths screen distance, just close enough that you can punish their projectiles on reaction. Don't even try to close in if you don't have to: Why should you, if you can just safely whittle them away with divekick pressure? If you can interrupt your opponent's zoning attempts with reaction divekicks, you'll force him to come to you, which many characters can't/shouldn't do. Once they start closing in from that distance, you can usually set up with bombs and go from there. Again, this doesn't work against ALL zoners; if you try this against Kitana, Mileena or Kabal, you'll get blown up. Even against a character like Stryker, you can punish his gun on reaction, but obviously not his bomb. As a Cyber Sub player, you really need to take it upon yourself to learn which attacks can be punished with a reaction divekick, and which ones can't. My guide is coming out on November 7th, and it'll include a full list of all the attacks that can be punished by reaction divekick, down to the distances they can be punished from.

Q2 - You shouldn't always be attacking after a bomb cancel. The idea of doing U4 into mid bomb cancel is to put some pressure on your opponent while they're in recovery, then wait for them to react to it so you can punish accordingly. You CAN try to attack them on wakeup, but if your opponent does a wakeup attack, they will beat this every time. You need to realize that this is the entire purpose of an invincible wakeup attack, they're designed to get you out of pressure on knockdown. If you anticipate an invincible wakeup, just block it, especially if it's an unsafe one.

Q3 - You should generally be using bombs to control your opponent's movement, and punish them with a divekick or anti-air slide if they try to jump out. If they try to dash block through them, you can EX divekick for the blockstun, which can be used to pin your opponent on a bomb for a guaranteed freeze. You can also use a safe poke string like F2 2 to try and push them back on the bomb, among others. There are a lot of options once you have a bomb thrown out, but generally, you want to use them to manipulate your opponent's movement and react accordingly. Learning all his setup situations takes time and practice.

Q4 - EX bomb into ice beam is rarely, RARELY ever worth it. Your best punish on an air freeze is NJP U4 slide, but that's rarely ever worth two meters. Generally, if you throw out an EX bomb, that'll be enough to force some kind of reaction from your opponent, and you can punish that with a divekick or AA slide. Even then, I don't recommend using the EX bomb too heavily, your meter is usually better spent elsewhere.

Q5 - You should NEVER teleport outside of a distance freeze and some very specific matchup situations, such as Sub Zero's ice ball. Cyber Sub's teleport is far more punishable than Cyrax's is. You can still dash + block to close the distance, and depending on the matchup, you can also whiff divekicks.

Q6 - Whoops, missed this. The slide after U4 WILL whiff if your timing is off, yeah. The easiest way to land the U4 slide cancel is to input the dash before the 2 1 1+2 ends (near the second half of the 1+2 animation), which will cause Cyber Sub to dash immediately out of the 1+2. As soon as you see the dash animation come out, immediately input the U4, then input the slide as soon as you see the U4 animation come out.

 

[Saltea Moonspell]

UFGlue

Thanks for the tips and heads up. I will main CSZ regardless of his bad MU. To deal with nasty zoners i have Kabal.

[Sir] Altaire

You thrown out some good info. Yesterday i played a friend of mine with whom i spar and it was the first time when i played Sub with a decent player and decent connection. Like you said the Divekicks are effective. I dealt with Kitanas fans well, i dealt with annoying Cyrax (this was/still is hard Mu for me)
I found some bomb use too. The Bomb trap after frozen opponent seems to not work for me. It appears that he could jump out. I will have look into this.
I will be coming back here.

GuamoKun

Thank you, thanks guys for support.

 

[GamerBlake90]

Just to add to my post, since I noticed your sixth question just now:

A6: The timing for successfully connecting the u4 into Cold Slide is indeed very tight, and is usually only possible after a 2 to 1 to 1+2 combo string or a bounce. You must immediately input the u4 after coming out of Cyber Sub-Zero's dash so that the target has plenty of height for you to land the Cold Slide afterwards. If you are late by any amount of time, the slide will completely whiff and go right through your opponent. In my opinion, you're better off using the u4 Bomb Cancel technique.

 

[Saltea Moonspell]

Thanks Blake. I will look further into it.

 

[Altaire]

[Sir] Altaire

You thrown out some good info. Yesterday i played a friend of mine with whom i spar and it was the first time when i played Sub with a decent player and decent connection. Like you said the Divekicks are effective. I dealt with Kitanas fans well, i dealt with annoying Cyrax (this was/still is hard Mu for me)
I found some bomb use too. The Bomb trap after frozen opponent seems to not work for me. It appears that he could jump out. I will have look into this.
I will be coming back here.

Be warned, a good Kitana is all but impossible for Cyber Sub. I manage to hold my own against 16 Bit's Kitana whenever we do this matchup, but honestly, I have a feeling that's more so because neither of us has any experience with it in high-level play. I'm sure once I figure out how to combat him, I'll do a little bit better, and once he figures out how to combat me, uh... He'll be doing so much better that I might as well skip Cyber Sub and go straight to Noob. Fuck Kitana.

Cyrax is honestly 5-5 with Cyber Sub, as far as I'm concerned. Bombs AND nets can be punished by reaction divekick, and Cyrax can't even punish a safe divekick (contacts the lower 2/3 of their hitbox) without spending meter; he has to use an EX ragdoll, which is seldom worth it unless he's really in a pinch. The trick to cheesing your way through Cyrax's setups is to find that sweet spot for divekick timing (length of time into your jump) where you'll clear the net every time, like you want to jump after it's "too late" for him to safely land a net (he can potentially catch you at any point during the kick, but it's going to be much harder when your divekick is about quarterscreen distance from him). This is basically the only way I can deal with J360's Cyrax, because if I don't keep the pressure on, he will set up the most ridiculous fucking contraptions and I'll be bouncing all over the place like a rubber ball.

 

[Saltea Moonspell]

I've played some more yesterday and what i noticed is that i relay on his mixups (3,4,slide. 3,3,2,slide/3,3,ex beam) also on slide and dive kicks. I played wooth Sektor, Smoke, Stryker. I wanted to focus more on bombs and freeze but its unreliable as much as the things i mentioned earlier. I've watched the videos available in Cyber section i see that a play alike though i still got lost here and there. I also believe that He lost so much with improved wake up attack. I still believe that NRS did good but its a damage to his rush down. And on top that the funny shit that happens when you wanna dash in and perform 3,3 and you get a bomb. I am aware that i need to cancel it with <- in order to get the string started, other wise the bomb pops out.