General/Other - Johnny Cage Johnny Cage post patch destiny

[jaylee777]

These are my ideal balance changes

Universal:
Improve hitbox of f4 to make it a reliable antiair

A list:
Make f3(4) cancel have to charge for a couple more frames (not a lot) on whiff only.

Stunt Double:
Make the first hit of ex mimic uppercut push cage back slightly more on block. (This would cause an attempted sweep afterwards to whiff)

Fisticuffs:
Give him a new string after f3 that can be hit confirmed into nutpunch. (Like his f32 from MK9) Make it like -5 or -6 on block.

Give him Ex fistbuff which has a faster startup. (Makes s4-exbuff and 114-exbuff plus on block. 113-exbuff can combo into f3 on hit, but 113-exbuff is minus on block.)

 

[ismael4790]

These are my ideal balance changes

Universal:
Improve hitbox of f4 to make it a reliable antiair

A list:
Make f3(4) cancel have to charge for a couple more frames (not a lot) on whiff only.

Stunt Double:
Make the first hit of ex mimic uppercut push cage back slightly more on block. (This would cause an attempted sweep afterwards to whiff)

Fisticuffs:
Give him a new string after f3 that can be hit confirmed into nutpunch. (Like his f32 from MK9) Make it like -5 or -6 on block.

Give him Ex fistbuff which has a faster startup. (Makes s4-exbuff and 114-exbuff plus on block. 113-exbuff can combo into f3 on hit, but 113-exbuff is minus on block.)

Agree on everything.

Your Stunt Double change would eliminate the htb without nerfing the sweep, so no collateral damage for the other varitions. Nice.

Besides the issues of speedbag, the changes you propose for Fisticuffs would solve many of his current problems. Perfect scenario would be: speedbag without whiffing issues, 9f startup, -2 on block; exfistbump with the properties you said, and your new string and/or a parry.

 

[IrishMantis]

Best fix for SD would be make the clone have extra pushback

If they make it a mid it's not a huge deal I'll lose my knockdown mix up HTB which is not guaranteed like F3 HTB

But if they do something dumb like add a gap In ex MRS SD I'll be fully done with SD unless for certain MUs

Alist needs some Adjustments for sure I'm playing him now and I ain't even crisp with him yet and having a lot easier time beating people over SD

Edit: hay I said the Fistycuff Ex buff ages ago !

Stop copying me Jaylee

 

[Zionix]

A-list will not get nerfed, that's obvious.

There are a lot of stronger variations that need attention, it's childish to think random complaints and paper theory will get A-list nerfed.

Until someone actually WINS anything with A-list, all this banter is just salty scrubs getting owned by Cage having no clue how to play the game.

I like this. Even if cage is S+ tier if nobody playing the game at the highest level is playing him to his potential then its pointless. If somebody comes onto the scene and dominates with on-paper a-list then think about nerfs but I don't see it happening.

This is MKX and 50/50s, insert random mix-up mid string and fullscreen jump-ins that gurantee follow up reign king here.

In another game a-list would be the most broken thing ever to exist lol.

 

[jaylee777]

Best fix for SD would be make the clone have extra pushback

Stop copying me Jaylee

Guess great minds think alike. Just like how you copied my sd idea

 

[ismael4790]

Guess great minds think alike. Just like how you copied my sd idea

Guys, I've been crying for an ex fistbump for ages, and I was called crazy for it xD

I'm glad that now many people see that he needs it.

 

[Vigilante24]

I would play Fisticuffs again if it wasnt bad anymore.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Are you crazy ? What would happen if he gets zoned ?

Johnny's B4 should be nerfed and you shouldn't be able to poke between the balls of SD EX forceballs.

And one last thing : Fix Johnny's Hitbox issues !

EDIT : I think they should also buff his F4 because the only able to anti air with that by accident

Fuck I don't know maybe use his full screen minus 4 armored attack that nobody else has

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Grandmaster will not get nerfed, that's obvious.

There are a lot of stronger variations that need attention, it's childish to think random complaints and paper theory will get Grandmaster nerfed.

Until someone actually WINS anything with Grandmaster, all this banter is just salty scrubs getting owned by Sub-Zero having no clue how to play the game.

There i fixed it for you buddy

 

[SmokingWarrior]

Fuck I don't know maybe use his full screen minus 4 armored attack that nobody else has

Yeah and taking a risk to get whiff punished ? Why not

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Yeah and taking a risk to get whiff punished ? Why not

Yeah why should Johnny have to risk anything?

 

[SmokingWarrior]

But you would have more to loose

 

[Wigy]

Buff f4
Add recovery frames to f3rc
Make b12 on fisticuffs 9 frames and give him on s4, 145 +ex fistbuff and a f324 string thats hitconfirmable with fist buff up.
Make it so xrays and parrys dont fuck jcs clones.
Add knockback to overhead clone
Personally wouldnt touch his zoning. Most characters dont have an issue.

 

[Rude]

Yeah and taking a risk to get whiff punished ? Why not

How DARE Cage players have to make a read??

Also, the whiff recovery on shadow kick isn't that bad. Your opponent has to be very on point to full punish it.

 

[Tweedy]

So last time I checked this forum, Johnny loses to D'vorah because he can't mash D4 and win the neutral.

Today Johnny is not top tier because no Johnny player is good enough to use him at a high level.

Gotcha

Johnny might have an execution barrier, and we might not be a huge community, but that doesn't mean that F3 whiff canceling isn't super unbalanced. It's not less unbalanced than Mileena's B1 recovery, because Johnny doesn't win. That's just grasping at straws so hard, that you might as well just say that you're grasping at straws.

 

[MKCastiel]

So last time I checked this forum, Johnny loses to D'vorah because he can't mash D4 and win the neutral.

Today Johnny is not top tier because no Johnny player is good enough to use him at a high level.

Gotcha

Johnny might have an execution barrier, and we might not be a huge community, but that doesn't mean that F3 whiff canceling isn't super unbalanced. It's not less unbalanced than Mileena's B1 recovery, because Johnny doesn't win. That's just grasping at straws so hard, that you might as well just say that you're grasping at straws.

It was my thread you posted that moronic comment on. I listed a bunch of valid reasons in the OP, which was then validated by plenty of solid A - List players. All you had to say was " so because he can't mash d4 and win neutral its a bad MU ". Again, i i listed plenty of reason as to why he struggles against Dvorah. Stop talking about a character you know nothing about.

 

[Wigy]

So last time I checked this forum, Johnny loses to D'vorah because he can't mash D4 and win the neutral.

Today Johnny is not top tier because no Johnny player is good enough to use him at a high level.

Gotcha

Johnny might have an execution barrier, and we might not be a huge community, but that doesn't mean that F3 whiff canceling isn't super unbalanced. It's not less unbalanced than Mileena's B1 recovery, because Johnny doesn't win. That's just grasping at straws so hard, that you might as well just say that you're grasping at straws.

That MU is bad for a number of reasons, you play captain braindead (alien) not jc stop pretending you know anything about him you're just salty

 

[Dankster Morgan]

This thread is giving me syphilis

 

[ismael4790]

This thread is giving me syphilis

Some people are derailing it, the original purpose can be read in the op.

 

[M.D.]

Is there any video proof, i mean, not in tourney, in ANY match, even with the AI, when someone won or clutched or dodged punishes because of that f3 whif cancel crap everyone is complaining about?

I have never seen anyone use it to gain advantage or get out of punishes in any matches, EVER, so..yea.

NO.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Some people are derailing it, the original purpose can be read in the op.

Yeah it's not your fault. All these threads more or less dissolve into garbage.

 

[Wigy]

Fuck I don't know maybe use his full screen minus 4 armored attack that nobody else has

It also launches them way too far back for any followup. And is pretty whiff punishable.

 

[ismael4790]

Yeah it's not your fault. All these threads more or less dissolve into garbage.

Yeah, it happens.
I have seen some interesting ideas in this post so far, that if become a reality would help all variations of Cage to become more reasonable. So at least in this aspect the thread has been useful.

 

[M.D.]

Fuck I don't know maybe use his full screen minus 4 armored attack that nobody else has

Ah the one that's a high and gets duck full combo punished, sure.

And if you use it on reaction to a projectile, it would still hit if it was minus a bazillion so that doesn't count.


P.s. BUFF IT AND MAKE IT A MID.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

It also launches them way too far back for any followup. And is pretty whiff punishable.

How spoiled do you guys have to be? Most other characters couldn't dream of this? Use it on reaction to a projectile, not just throw it out. I'm sorry that you might have to make a read.