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Johnny Cage General Discussion

Rizz091

Rizz091

Mortal
Wigy said:
Haven't looked through the thread but Lao looks crazy with cage. 2144 214(low hat) is a mix and low hat is plus.

Off his trait midscreen he gets a hard to blockable from NP low hat into f4
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I've been finding Lao to be the best pick for me with Johnny. The hat adds so many layers to his pressure which is his strongest trait. And it gives him help that he needs in the neutral game to get in. The hat comes back so quick it's practically always available. My opponents are blocking and getting tagged constantly and they are most importantly left standing and close to keep the pressure going.

I very rarely find myself building enough hype to hit a hype combo with this setup, but it doesn't feel like he needs it or that it's worth the effort most of the time.
 
Mikemetroid

Mikemetroid

Who hired this guy, WTF?
Lead Moderator
Rodney Quillz said:
Bro the mashing feels worse than mk11, you can only make them regret neutral ducking if you are up close, if you are out of f3 range everyone just neutral ducks and mashes 3/4 this feels exactly like mk11 Johnny lmao.

Ashrah is a big problem for me right now.
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Instead of crushing pokes with f3, take a step back and b3 them. Ashrah is annoying because of her sword (turns out blades beat fists), but there are some things you can do like d3/d4 under her highs, bait her to whiff a poke (punish with b3), etc. Its an annoying MU for sure though
 
Wigy

Wigy

There it is...
Rizz091 said:
I've been finding Lao to be the best pick for me with Johnny. The hat adds so many layers to his pressure which is his strongest trait. And it gives him help that he needs in the neutral game to get in. The hat comes back so quick it's practically always available. My opponents are blocking and getting tagged constantly and they are most importantly left standing and close to keep the pressure going.

I very rarely find myself building enough hype to hit a hype combo with this setup, but it doesn't feel like he needs it or that it's worth the effort most of the time.
Click to expand...
I'm leaning towards lao right now I think he's just more consistent.

Hat saw allows Johnny to approach with his god awful reach
Hat creates mixes off his strings and pressure on block.
Spin tag in gives extremely easy trait combo meterlessly off any normal.
Ending everything in a held hat in the corner gives you ridiculous oki pressure.
Midscreen hard to blockables. Even simple stuff like f321 hold hat f4 release hat is like 2 frame fuzzy launcher
Teleport I'm still labbing but has potential

You can also do trait np low hat and hold it into pressure or f4 for a reset mid trait combo
 
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F

Frank Reed

Noob
Wigy said:
I'm leaning towards lao right now I think he's just more consistent.

Hat saw allows Johnny to approach with his god awful reach
Hat creates mixes off his strings and pressure on block.
Spin tag in gives extremely easy trait combo meterlessly off any normal.
Ending everything in a held hat in the corner gives you ridiculous oki pressure.
Midscreen hard to blockables. Even simple stuff like f321 hold hat f4 release hat is like 2 frame fuzzy launcher
Teleport I'm still labbing but has potential

You can also do trait np low hat and hold it into pressure or f4 for a reset mid trait combo
Click to expand...
Kung Lao is absolutely the best option at the moment. You get zoning, pressure and mixups. Kano if you feel like you need the damage and his ball is similar to the hat in terms of pressure and takes up more of the screen at the loss of mix and the hat just being a damn obstacle on the ground. Nothing better than when they jump onto your stationary hat for a full combo punish. Also Kung Lao allows you to actually zone and trade reliably in a zoning war.
 
R

Roosta

Noob
Realizing you can just fuzzy Johnny's 214/212 mix which makes opening good players up a lot more difficult. If someone has learned to fuzzy that - he just has grabs/staggers/pressure, meanwhile if u get touched by someone like Raiden u eat a 50%+ 1 bar. Then characters like Ashrah and Reiko can just control neutral and play keep away from him all day. JC also needs to spend 2 bars for any good damage...I don't understand why people are putting him S tier but maybe I'm just ass or need to try other kameos lol

also - setting up plus frames into backdash~F3,4 seems to work great on some of the cast for punishing d1 mashing into full combo.
 
R

Roosta

Noob
Wigy said:
Lao and cage is the most broken shit together I've seen. No cameo comes close. If you haven't tried go lab it.

I think lao low hat will get a big recovery nerf in the future. Its utterly broken.

If this gets a bunch of likes to show interest I'll do a big writeup and videos.
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Yeah I think you are right. All those options are worth way more than the conversions kano gives u. Having ur opponent constantly worry about the hat opens other stuff up too. I got blown up by it a ton myself before realizing it was plus
 
F

Frank Reed

Noob
Roosta said:
Realizing you can just fuzzy Johnny's 214/212 mix which makes opening good players up a lot more difficult. If someone has learned to fuzzy that - he just has grabs/staggers/pressure, meanwhile if u get touched by someone like Raiden u eat a 50%+ 1 bar. Then characters like Ashrah and Reiko can just control neutral and play keep away from him all day. JC also needs to spend 2 bars for any good damage...I don't understand why people are putting him S tier but maybe I'm just ass or need to try other kameos lol

also - setting up plus frames into backdash~F3,4 seems to work great on some of the cast for punishing d1 mashing into full combo.
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I was fighting a Li Mei last night who knew this. That’s not to mention the up block punish of the 212. Having Kung Lao as your kameo gives you proper mix and ways to open up the opponent. Once I started using 214 hat in this particular situation I could better start using 212 without as much worry of fuzzy or upblock. Plus I would catch her with raw hat a lot and full combo punish.
 
F

Frank Reed

Noob
Another good option with Johnny is to cancel blocked d1 into meter burn rising star. If they are immediately reacting to a blocked d1, punish them. I’ve also seen this work on specific wake-up attacks like Raiden’s electric fly where you d1 the armor and hit him with the rising star.
 
Bucketfeet

Bucketfeet

Apprentice
Did they remove the nut punch hype move? The one where he doesn't actually punch you but instead winks at you and builds hype meter?

I remember from the beta is was something like db1 + L2 or something
 
Rizz091

Rizz091

Mortal
Bucketfeet said:
Did they remove the nut punch hype move? The one where he doesn't actually punch you but instead winks at you and builds hype meter?

I remember from the beta is was something like db1 + L2 or something
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It's still in the game but Johnny needs to be wearing sunglasses.
 
Mikemetroid

Mikemetroid

Who hired this guy, WTF?
Lead Moderator
Jax lets Johnny get a fully charge b2 on hit. This is important because it allows you hype charge/activation but side switching as well. Im working on notations...
 
Wigy

Wigy

There it is...
Mikemetroid said:
Jax lets Johnny get a fully charge b2 on hit. This is important because it allows you hype charge/activation but side switching as well. Im working on notations...
Click to expand...
There is a very specific timing of trait into nut punches you can get an unblockable reset with his ground pound as well. I recorded the AI and couldnt get out of it.

Also just generally doing ground pound as an oki ender then going into f4 creates situation where if you dont stay down its a guaranteed reset.

 
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Derocus

Derocus

'The Cage Mage'
Alright, boys. How in the heck do I deal with Johnny's tiny t-rex arms?
Almost all my games, my opponent is walking backward waiting for a whiff-punish. I try to play it patiently, "Yeah ok, let's walk you to the corner buddy."
But that just ain't working.
 
Rizz091

Rizz091

Mortal
Derocus said:
Alright, boys. How in the heck do I deal with Johnny's tiny t-rex arms?
Almost all my games, my opponent is walking backward waiting for a whiff-punish. I try to play it patiently, "Yeah ok, let's walk you to the corner buddy."
But that just ain't working.
Click to expand...
Kung lao low hat helps me get in. I can dance around working my way in while occasionally throwing out low hat.

B3 is also ridiculous in the footsie game. People be walking back to bait a wiffed poke then press a button. If they wiff that button or string, b3 blows up a lot of stuff.
 
R

Roosta

Noob
Derocus said:
Alright, boys. How in the heck do I deal with Johnny's tiny t-rex arms?
Almost all my games, my opponent is walking backward waiting for a whiff-punish. I try to play it patiently, "Yeah ok, let's walk you to the corner buddy."
But that just ain't working.
Click to expand...
kameos and F1/F3 staggers. If they are mashing D1 after every block u can check them with grab / dash back ~b3 / rising star
 
Mikemetroid

Mikemetroid

Who hired this guy, WTF?
Lead Moderator
Space Cadet said:
Oh whoa, I'm gonna have to lab this. This would be big for me because I love choosing the worst time to activate Hype (Not every time but too much ahaha).
Click to expand...
Its a tight window for the activation. You can activate hype mid screen with f12hype shadow kick...
 
Rizz091

Rizz091

Mortal
How much are you guys actively trying to build hype meter and activating star power mode in matches? When using Lao kameo I don't really ever find a window to build or activate it. With Cyrax it seems more worth it but still I feel like I'm more going out of my way for it because it's fun to do than it actually being the optimal way to play.

I can say in ranked games I more or less ignore it.
 
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