Match-up Discussion Jade Matchup Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Jade' started by Konqrr, Aug 7, 2011.

  1. Well I know one weakness of yours that will never get old.

    You never commit to a gun shot right away, so you usually gun cancel and then gun shot.

    So if i see you pull it out, then up3 it goes.

    I really doubt I'd win anyway, but you do have casual bad habits like that. :)

    If anything, I'm just getting slaughtered because of the hole in jade's range in between staff overhead u3 and b2. when someone jumps in and I miss b2, it's just a pain to get them back out.
  2. GLoRToR

    GLoRToR The bandwagon is the best kind of dwagon. It bans.

    They need to block to get in and if you time 23f2 right, they are back out again. Remember that TheSoundOfGrowingGrass™ makes most specials including reptile's dash go right through you with 23f2's 2 and f2. So flash green and throw it out when you see them coming. It's not even baitable by too many people tbh. Teleporters can, but you can stop it at 23(-) and cancel into a shadow kick to get away. (2) crushes jumps, 3 crushes low, f2 autocancellable into df2, and 12df2_df4 is also a viable aa/upclose option. If they jump in and crouch and poke, backstep and b2. If they are too close, 4f3 them. It's all about optionselect, those are all decent chip damage too. I like to b32 but careful with that string, if they read and jump, full combo.
  3. I'm going to practice this online all the time now. Thank you! This is pretty much everything I've needed. I was terrified of reptile dash's consequences, but if I can do this... well then.
    GLoRToR likes this.
  4. GLoRToR

    GLoRToR The bandwagon is the best kind of dwagon. It bans.

    Dash is i5 but he also needs to input it. Outside sweep you have the time to b2 or u3 at the right range, or you can anticipate, block, and 12df2/df4 to position him.
    Against wild scrubs a backjump deepkick is all you need to blow it up into bjdk,4,df4,d1,df2 (~20%)
    Fun fact, u3 interrupts kabal's dash as well on startup frames.
  5. GLoRToR

    GLoRToR The bandwagon is the best kind of dwagon. It bans.

    My personal list. Most people will disagree. I'm not posting this to get attacked for it, this is how I see it right now. I'm sorry if I offended anybody.
    Jade-Kabal 4-6 NDC is troublesome but the glow guide might even make this even.
    Jade-Cyrax 6-4 Cyrax has no tools against Jade. He finds it hard to go in, can't zone her.
    Jade-Freddy 5-5 Freddy has zoning that stupidly goes through Flash, he has to keep Jade out however.
    Jade-Kenshi 4-6 This is another matchup where Jade needs to get in. Proper rushdown Jade with evading Kenshi's bullshit to be discussed.
    Jade-KungLao 5-5 His mobility and strings are on his side. But GOD he has to apply himself against a Jade that has him figured out.
    Jade-Sonya 4-6 Sonya has to apply herself or gets kept out and shut down. EnCartwheel and divekick is fully negated by Glow.
    Jade-Jax 4-6 He again has to rush in and try to deal damage.
    Jade-Cage 5-5 He struggles to get in, she struggles to keep him out.
    Jade-Kitana 5.5-4.5 Jade has slight advantage here but not too much.
    Jade-Reptile 4-6 Jade has definite advantage. Reptile's footsies are ass, his damage is equal to Jade and his zoning is null. He's shut down right where Jade excels: outside sweep.
    Jade-Skarlet 5-5 Skarlet's rushdown game is inferior to NDC. Skarlet's armor options are overpowered by Jade's but her normals are better.
    Jade-Smoke 5-5 He has good options, while Jade has raw speed and lots of armor. This matchup is really a mindgame.
    Jade-Ermac 4-6 Ermac shuts down her spacing a bit like Kenshi does. She has to get in and jump hoops to get this matchup done, but it's just a minor setback in her ever-changing game.
    Jade-LiuKang 6.5-3.5 Liu has to apply himself horribly hard to get in. By the time he gets in, he has gone through a breaker, and has three instances of glow to contend with.
    Jade-Raiden 5-5 Jade can punish everything Raiden can do, and she can glow through his strings. His teleport makes it hard to put him in a vice however.
    Jade-Rain 7-3 Rain's tools are inferior to Jade. All Jade has to do is backstep and wait for the armor to wear off for a b2 and full combo. His teleport is punished for 30+ % as well as his projectile. His lightning doesn't get ignored by Flash for some stupid reason but that's a non-issue, every move of Jade that shifts her hitbox, negates lightning, n4 especially good. Jade has no reason to spend meter on anything but glow.
    Jade-Shang 7-3 Shang has absolutely nothing going for him in this matchup. In the event that the shang player knows Jade at the Jade player's level, damage boost can be a minor problem... but even then you can just turtle it out.
    Jade-Sektor 4-6 Sektors tools make it incredibly hard for Jade to make a stand. She's free to his teleport from afar and to his superior frames upclose. Right now this is Jade's hardest matchup next to Kenshi in my opinion.
    Jade-Mileena 6-4 Mileena is all figured out and she has nothing going for her in this matchup, except for how Jade has to tread lightly not to get blown up out of her unsafe strings by Mileena's superior speed. That accomplished, this matchup is cake.
    Jade-Nightwolf 5-5 Hard to get in on nightwolf and his lightning is yet again not negated by Flash. Wtf.
    Jade-NoobSaibot 7-3 Nuff said. He has nothing he can do. Jade's 12~options shut him down upclose, and he has no business zoning her. Upknee is a good way to keep her out... unless she has meter.
    Jade-QuanChi - 5-5. His frametraps hurt, but that's all he has going for him.
    Jade-Sindel 6-4 This matchup is hard for Sindel.
    Jade-Scorpion 5-5 His vortex is a pain, but so is her glow into 40% damage.
    Jade-SubZero 6-4 He has one superior string and that's all he has going for him. Jade has no reason to get in on Sub in this matchup and if she has to, there are three ways to armor through.
    The rest of the cast are all 6-4 or lower.

    Jade is solid mid-tier but she takes way too much effort to get right with having several, more competent characters in the cast that do not need to justframe or watch out for making mistakes all that much.
  6. GLoRToR

    GLoRToR The bandwagon is the best kind of dwagon. It bans.

    Matchup appendix:
    Jade's optionselect.


    1.a.50. Poke out
    1.b.50. Armor out

    1.aPoke out:
    50. d1df2
    50. d3,4~
    <~ Take frame data into account and who you are facing, too.

    1.bArmor out:
    33.Overhead~full combo
    33.Kick~lesser combo
    33.Glow~possibility of full combo
    <~ All of these can be countered, this is a high-yomi factor mindgame.

    2.a.50.Zone back
    2.b.50.Move in

    2.a.Zone back
    33.Shadowflash, boomerangs
    33.Shadowflash, b2~full combo
    33.Shadowflash, u3~oki

    2.b. Move in
    This is character dependent.
    But most of them can be blown up by shadowflash and a combo starter. Faster recovery characters are a pain though. Moving in and then using armor is not a bad idea in many cases.
    Okay guys, in that order, those are my worst matchups.Please take into account that they are being used in the hands of a really good player.Not someone who is okay with them.Im fine with other characters who are used by really good players but I feel so damn helpless in these three match ups.The biggest issue with these characters is that I just never have the opportunity to get anything going.I may get lucky every once in a while but that just won't cut it.Majority of the things I do whiffs,but when they whiff something,I never have the opportunity to punish it.Am Im the only one having this problem with mileena and nightwolf?Im sure that Lao gives most of us a hard time.I just can't get control over the match when faced with these opponents.Maybe Im just not good at making reads against them.I don't know.But Im not complaining.I never seen these matchups played at a the highest level nor do I ever hear people talk about these matchups because most of the focus is either on Kabal,Kenshi,and Smoke,and a couple of others.Anything would be helpful guys.(Well not anything of course but something that will make me feel more comfortable with these matchups.Thanks
  8. Espio

    Espio Event Horizon
    Lead Moderator

    Could you be more specific on what the problem is?

    If you're whiffing stuff that usually means your opponent is baiting you and forcing you to whiff strings/specials/normals and playing stronger footsies.

    If you're not comfortable in these match ups that makes it more overwhelming too.
  9. miloPKL


    jade doesnt have an answer for lao, sorry.
  10. It's mainly the specials and footsies.sometimes I try to bait them and I still come out unsuccessful.Mileena just seems like she have an answer for everything I do.I always fall to night wolf's pressure and shoulder charges.Maybe I need to learn his frame data.But Im fine against these two when I use Sindel though.I know that may sound crazy but Im actually better off using her in these matchups(except lao).But I still wanted to step my game up with Jade though.
  11. Espio

    Espio Event Horizon
    Lead Moderator


    Shoulder charge is punishable on neutral duck if you read it correctly or if they're being predictable. His pressure is a guessing game, gotta figure out when to poke and how to read their pressure game

    Mileena you have to lame her out and bait her to blow her up, that's what I always do and have fairly consistent success. She blows up impatience and aggression.

    Kung Lao I play a very reactionary playstyle and I have footage of some matches of Jade versus Kung Lao and one match versus Nightwolf, not saying I play them great or perfectly, but it could be fruitful feedback.
  12. most of the time whenever i anticipate a shoulder charge and i neutral duck,he does the enhanced that's just my luck.That footage would be great also.I never seen these matchups played so it would be some help.
    STB Espio likes this.
  13. Espio

    Espio Event Horizon
    Lead Moderator

    9:41 is the start of the three matches. I didn't play these as ideally as I could have and the footage is quite old as June old lol so pardon my scrubtastic characters.

    14:09 one match

    GLoRToR likes this.
  14. RiBBz22

    RiBBz22 TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
    Premium Supporter

    OMFG, is the last post in the MU discussion seriously all the way back in October?

    Does anyone think that the Smoke MU could be worse than 7-3 Smoke? After hearing about all this Kenshi 9-1, I really don't understand how Jade can win this MU either even though it is not quite at the Kenshi sad face level.

    What do you guys think?
  15. BillStickers

    BillStickers Do not touch me again.

    I think I have it 7-3 actually. It's bad but it doesn't quite make me want to kill myself. IMO Jade needs to use her resets here because meter is so essential to overcoming this MU.

    Definitely open to hearing about why you think it's 8-2, though.
  16. RiBBz22

    RiBBz22 TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
    Premium Supporter

    It just feels like a heavy advantage MU to me. Smoke Toward/Away are the best tools that he has in the MU and Jade has no way to to really stay in or do great damage against him. She is having to constantly chase him and leaves herself open to big damage if she is not careful. Also, flash does not avoid getting hit by Smoke bombs which seems like total BS.
  17. Jade loses 3-7 to Smoke.
    I don't think it's that horrible Ribbz
  18. RiBBz22

    RiBBz22 TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
    Premium Supporter

    I am not saying it is I am just trying to randomly spark some MU discussion since I saw there were no posts for a few months. xD
  19. BillStickers

    BillStickers Do not touch me again.

    Yea, the Jade player just has to be on point with throws and shadow kicks. You're right that she can't do any of her usual tricks, though.

    Mr. Mileena lol it's a sad day when we're calling 3-7 'not that horrible' :) jade 4eva
  20. Would someone please tell me why she's listed at a 6-4 for mileena.I know this is old but does that still stand?I honestly don't see anything that would make this a favorable matchup for jade.I would much rather fight a lao then a mileena.
  21. Dude, that MU is terrible.
    mileena wins 7-3 imo
    BlaqandMild15 likes this.
  22. I would have to agree with ya.I personally struggle against her more than any other character in the game.Im much more comfortable using sindel in this matchup.
  23. Prinz

    Prinz watch?v=a8PEVV6tt14

    Due to low tier tournament, this is my extreme tier list for the tournament for fun. First nr. is the worst possible, second - the best.
    vs Sub-Zero 3-7/6-4
    vs Scorpion 4-6/5-5
    vs Baraka 2-8/5-5
    vs CSZ 2-8/4-6
    vs Rain 3-7/5-5
    vs Nightwolf 3-7/5-5
    vs Sindel 4-6/6-4
    vs Noob 4-6/6-4
    vs Kano 4-6/5-5
    vs Quan Chi 3-7/4-6
    vs Stryker 5-5/6-4

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