Jade Buffs

[Deleted member 5032]

I play just about every character, to the point where I’ve started just using Random Select. However, Jade is my current main. I feel like this gives me decent insight into what she needs to compete with the rest of the cast. I certainly don’t think she’s as bad as a lot of the Jade community would have you believe, but it’s no secret that she’s outclassed heavily by the current top 10-15 characters.

So here is my current wishlist for the upcoming patch:

• Amplified razorrang should jail from normal rang, and possibly hit mid. Meaning if you block the first rang, you can’t poke while avoiding the 2nd. As it stands, there is no way to utilize amped rang’s +7 on block, since an opponent should never be hit by it. This is my biggest request.
• Assorted hitbox adjustment. As it stands, too many of her attacks whiff for no good reason, especially against aerial opponents. Combined with the slow recovery on most of her moves, it’s too easy for the opponent to just jump at her, avoiding her attack while landing a substantial punish.
• bf2 should be safer on block, possibly -7. It simply doesn’t offer enough damage or utility to warrant being full-kombo punishable, especially considering how often it whiffs. Compared to other characters’ tools, -7 seems totally fair.
• f2 should starts up in 21 frames rather than 28. That’s the same startup as Kabal’s Fatal Blow. For a move as unsafe and with such a big gap, I think 21 startup is totally reasonable.
• b12 should also be less negative on block, possibly -7. For a 2-hit 15-frame string that doesn’t kombo, there’s no reason for it to be full-kombo punishable.
• Glow should affect all ranged specials, including Blood Tentacle, Corpse Drop, and Sand Trap. Not working against those moves totally defeats the purpose of Glow.
• I think 18% is totally fair damage for her b343~bf1(amp) punish, which is unbreakable and ends with a +10 restand. However, I do think she needs the option to go for a damaging punish rather than the restand setup. Perhaps making one of her strings a launcher could help boost her damage without making her restand overpowered.

Some of those are just nice-to-haves. The big ones for me are amp rang jailing, hit box adjustments, and glow working on all projectiles. I wrote this from my phone so I kept it abbreviated, but I can elaborate tomorrow.

 

[Eh SnOwY]

decent points, hope she gets something atleast

 

[MagicMan357]

She actually doesnt need that much, I keep telling jade players she has an easy 31-35% combo so thats not her issue. Her issue is the same issue with most of the cast, her moves either dont compliment her playstyle or she lacks options she should have. Heres what i think.

• s1 and 2,1 should have faster recovery
• 1,2,4 should be a regular launcher
• her glaives shouldnt knock back her opponents grounded
• juggles with glaive need more air time for connections
• her low kick string should be able to stagger, and the last hit should far launch
• 2,1,2 should be special cancelable

 

[Hellbringer]

I dont think she needs buffs at all. Whats wrong with being a midtier?

 

[Hot_DNA]

She actually doesnt need that much, I keep telling jade players she has an easy 31-35% combo so thats not her issue. Her issue is the same issue with most of the cast, her moves either dont compliment her playstyle or she lacks options she should have. Heres what i think.

• s1 and 2,1 should have faster recovery
• 1,2,4 should be a regular launcher
• her glaives shouldnt knock back her opponents grounded
• juggles with glaive need more air time for connections
• her low kick string should be able to stagger, and the last hit should far launch
• 2,1,2 should be special cancelable

It's not easy to hit people with f2,1 and it's only 35% in the corner... with that being said, I main Jade and I dont think she needs many buffs at all

 

[Vhozite]

• f2 should starts up in 21 frames rather than 28. That’s the same startup as Kabal’s Fatal Blow. For a move as unsafe and with such a big gap, I think 21 startup is totally reasonable.

This change seems a bit questionable. F2 is definitely too slow but 21f seems questionable since its a launching overhead with great range.

A few changes I want:

• 124 KB req. changed to CH/punish
• Glow to work on all projectiles
• Faster parry startup.
• Hitbox fixes
• Jaded: Amp pole Vault moves less far so it combos more consistently
• Jaded: Replace the amp Kick ability slot with something useful

Wishful thinking but I'd love to have Deadly Assassin in a tournament variation.

 

[MsMiharo]

Don't know much about her but her glow should be immune to pretty much anything that isn't a physical normal or special. It's what sets her apart and makes her cool

 

[Deleted member 5032]

I dont think she needs buffs at all. Whats wrong with being a midtier?

3 of those aren’t really buffs as much as fixes.

The way amp rang works just makes no sense, so allowing it to jail correctly or become a mid just allows her to actually utilize the plus on block frames.

She suffers significantly from hitbox issues. Her frame data feels correct for a character with a giant disjointed hitbox, which is what she appears to be. But in practice, her hitboxes are garbage. It’s like her staff only has a hitbox up to where her hands are. When we play her vs Kabal and I try to whiff punish with f21, how many times has your 2nd or 3rd hit of b122 blown right through her staff and landed you a punish KB? Or she’ll be super plus and you’ll just jump forward, causing her attack to pass harmlessly through your body?

The changes to Glow would simply allow it to work as intended. It makes no sense why it works against some projectiles and ranged moves but not others. Ironically, I could understand if it didn’t work on Jax’s Ground Pound, since that’s not really a projectile, but it does. So why not Geras’ Sand Trap or Shang’s Corpse Drop? It works against EB’s FB but not Cetrion’s. What?

The rest I could take or leave. I just feel like they’d bring her closer in line with the rest of the non-broken mid-upper tier for the reasons stated in the OP.

 

[xKhaoTik]

No mention to her parry? It’s pretty trash. Maybe a slight damage buff as well.

I don’t think she needs plenty of buffs tho.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Eh, I think all that's a bit much.

Speeding up the overhead is a good request and fixing the hitboxes to where people can't just jump through her staff is a good one as well.

I also like making b12 safe because it's not a launcher.

And definitely change the KB requirement on 124 to kounter/punish.

 

[Vhozite]

I'd speed her parry up to 9 frames to start with. I'm not sure what the startup/recovery of the others are.

Would also be nice if it didn't have the world's most obvious animation.

 

[deathstroke187]

people are asking for buffs that would make their main completly broken

 

[Hellbringer]

3 of those aren’t really buffs as much as fixes.

The way amp rang works just makes no sense, so allowing it to jail correctly or become a mid just allows her to actually utilize the plus on block frames.

She suffers significantly from hitbox issues. Her frame data feels correct for a character with a giant disjointed hitbox, which is what she appears to be. But in practice, her hitboxes are garbage. It’s like her staff only has a hitbox up to where her hands are. When we play her vs Kabal and I try to whiff punish with f21, how many times has your 2nd or 3rd hit of b122 blown right through her staff and landed you a punish KB? Or she’ll be super plus and you’ll just jump forward, causing her attack to pass harmlessly through your body?

The changes to Glow would simply allow it to work as intended. It makes no sense why it works against some projectiles and ranged moves but not others. Ironically, I could understand if it didn’t work on Jax’s Ground Pound, since that’s not really a projectile, but it does. So why not Geras’ Sand Trap or Shang’s Corpse Drop? It works against EB’s FB but not Cetrion’s. What?

The rest I could take or leave. I just feel like they’d bring her closer in line with the rest of the non-broken mid-upper tier for the reasons stated in the OP.

I think that things like corpse hit not affected by glow where intented. That matchup would be really bad for shang if he cant use skulls or corpsedrop. Like playing a variationless character...

 

[Elias6999]

Yall are asking too much for glow. It already changes the course of the matchup, your entire gameplan shouldn’t revolve around it. I get asking for some things not to destroy glow like Cetrion’s FB, but making it immune to all ranged shit would break Jade. And she’s already pretty fine.

 

[Vhozite]

I think that things like corpse hit not affected by glow where intented. That matchup would be really bad for shang if he cant use skulls or corpsedrop. Like playing a variationless character...

Ok I can get behind this.

But what about Frost DB2? It works on Jax slam but not Geras sand?

It's not so much about corpse drop as it is consistency. I just want the ability to be intuitive. I'm not tryna have to pull out a spreadsheet every MU to see what it does and doesn't work on.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Ok I can get behind this.

But what about Frost DB2? It works on Jax slam but not Geras sand?

It's not so much about corpse drop as it is consistency.

Shouldn't work on jax ground pound tbh. Not a projectile.

 

[Vhozite]

Exactly that's dumb as hell. Which is why I'm saying i just want it to be consistent.

 

[GLoRToR]

Jade's main problem is that she has shit frame data and she deals no damage. Risk Reward.
On the same token, Air Glaive dominates too much and overshadows the character's comparatively bad performance in relation to the upper echelon of characters in the game.
All she needs is the following imo:

• BF2 to be -5 on block, down from -13
• BF2 MB to exist in her standard kit, at -13 and able to launch for a 25-30% punish.
• Glow 7f, 18f idle after activation
• Her FB U2 fixed so it works. Currently it whiffs on a lot of things and sucks as an anti-air.
• Moves that lead to nothing such as B12, F41, etc. to not be suicide on block.
• Hitboxes fixed on F2, F41, and other staff moves that whiff inside their own hitboxes at certain heights and certain frames
• F4 to be in-line with other F4 in the game, either start up faster or be better on block.
• B3434 changed into 3434 where 3 is a 10f mid. Jank removed. This would eliminate issues with B3434 regularly reading as b4 after a downpoke as an input error

Emerald Defender:

• Air Glaive needs looked at, it's a very powerful tool that currently makes or breaks the character.
• Upglaive replaced with a functional, working teleport. (Not the shit that we have in her misc skills right now that only teleports on mb, that's wack)

Jaded:

• Vault's many issues with its hitbox, low profiling, etc. fixed.
• Cancels made better, in-line with other cancels in the game.
• Shadowkick Change removed, replaced with something worth having
  
  Frankly, though, as long as Glow is 56f and there are moves that just literally ignore it, I don't think Jade will ever be in her rightful place.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

I think that things like corpse hit not affected by glow where intented. That matchup would be really bad for shang if he cant use skulls or corpsedrop. Like playing a variationless character...

I wouldn't call it "really bad". He just wouldn't be able to mindlessly zone. And she still has to get Glow out, it's not like she's just always immune to his zoning.

She still wouldn't be able to use any specials on him because of how unsafe they are and how much damage he gets off his b3 punishes; she literally can't cancel into any of her specials or use half her strings without risking an easy 30%+ punish. And since glow goes away on hit, he'd still have access to all of his braindead 30%+ pressure. He just wouldn't be able to hide behind db1 like he can against most of the rest of the cast. I think Baraka/Shang is a legit 7/3 or 8/2 in Shang's favor. If Glow worked on Corpse Drop, I'd put it at most 6/4 in Jade's favor.

 

[Afumba]

I hope they dont give her additional launchers on her base kit. Fixing her staff hitboxes and maybe speed F2 up by a couple of frames is enough in the launching department. Jade doesnt need to launch she needs more good options. Making F41 and B12 more useful, adjusting KB requirments and making her parry/U2 worth using is a better route. It would also be nice for F3 to have a bit more range than T-Rex limb range.

About Glow - the only thing that bothers me is how arbitrary it works. It shouldnt work on Jax Groundpound but it does, on the other hand it should work on sandtrap but it doesnt. While super annoying its ok that it doesnt work on things like Corpse/Sonya turret. Cetrions FB falls in the same category so it makes sense that it isnt affected by Glow. I think Glow should work on all projectiles (including all projectile strings) beside the ones that come from above (like from outside the screen) and earthquake/shockwave type moves (fyi i dont consider Skarlets tongue a projectile). Glow also shouldnt be much faster or safer.

Damage-wise i agree that her restand damage is fine as is. For damage options i would like Shadowkick or Butterfly to do more damage (like 21-23%). Butterfly could get a save AMP that does a few extra % or Shadowkick damage could be raised to be similar to Kangs flying kick. The butterfly option coupled with better KB req would give us a restand, a damage and a load KB option. As said earlier i am against more launcher.

 

[WhamBamThanxSam]

Ok I can get behind this.

But what about Frost DB2? It works on Jax slam but not Geras sand?

It's not so much about corpse drop as it is consistency. I just want the ability to be intuitive. I'm not tryna have to pull out a spreadsheet every MU to see what it does and doesn't work on.

It shouldn't work on Ground Pound. GP has already been nerfed into the ground as is.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

I just don't get what the fuck they were thinking when they designed some of her moves. Her dash kick does 6% damage, hits high, and only travels maybe half screen. Ok, why is it more punishable than Scorpion's teleport, Shang's Upskulls, Johnny's amp nut-punch, and all of these other moves that do more damage, have more utility in the neutral (other than nut punch), and launch for full kombos? That shit does the same damage as landing two d4's. No special in the game should do so little damage.

Same goes for her bf2. If the opponent isn't literally just standing on the ground, several hits will whiff, putting Jade at disadvantage while only dealing around 4.5%. 4.5% for landing a special move. WTF, NRS? That shit absolutely needs to be addressed in the upcoming patch.

 

[Vhozite]

Yeah it secretly irritates me that glaive, spark, and shadow kick all do the same damage.

 

[GLoRToR]

I just don't get what the fuck they were thinking when they designed some of her moves. Her dash kick does 6% damage, hits high, and only travels maybe half screen. Ok, why is it more punishable than Scorpion's teleport, Shang's Upskulls, Johnny's amp nut-punch, and all of these other moves that do more damage, have more utility in the neutral (other than nut punch), and launch for full kombos? That shit does the same damage as landing two d4's. No special in the game should do so little damage.

Same goes for her bf2. If the opponent isn't literally just standing on the ground, several hits will whiff, putting Jade at disadvantage while only dealing around 4.5%. 4.5% for landing a special move. WTF, NRS? That shit absolutely needs to be addressed in the upcoming patch.

This.

Why is BF2 even unsafe when it doesn't lead to anything?
Low Spark is lowkey a shit move and she's even standing when she's using it so no ducking under high projectiles like better low projectiles in the game.
It's like they slapped her with air glaive and went like, yeah we don't need to design a good character at all.
Don't even get me started on her normals. Why is B2 a high? Why is b12 shit? Why does F2 even exist lol

If I had my way, I'd get all her moves brought to game standards where Erron and Sonya reigns with their ridiculous normals.
Then again I'd also destroy Air Glaive. Or rather, I'd make a variation where she's this versatile balanced "no losing or winning mu" purely skill based character that can take a risk and do damage, play safe and poke away, keep out and run the risk of getting blown up, get in and get the risk of being shanked type character a bit like Liu in mkx

 

[Deleted member 5032]

This.

Why is BF2 even unsafe when it doesn't lead to anything?
Low Spark is lowkey a shit move and she's even standing when she's using it so no ducking under high projectiles like better low projectiles in the game.
It's like they slapped her with air glaive and went like, yeah we don't need to design a good character at all.
Don't even get me started on her normals. Why is B2 a high? Why is b12 shit? Why does F2 even exist lol

If I had my way, I'd get all her moves brought to game standards where Erron and Sonya reigns with their ridiculous normals.
Then again I'd also destroy Air Glaive. Or rather, I'd make a variation where she's this versatile balanced "no losing or winning mu" purely skill based character that can take a risk and do damage, play safe and poke away, keep out and run the risk of getting blown up, get in and get the risk of being shanked type character a bit like Liu in mkx

You had me until that 2nd paragraph.