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General/Other - Scorpion Issues with Scorpion that I feel should be amended (regulations included)

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
I currently believe he is in the upper half of the tier list
29 cast members.

Halfway point is exactly #15. For Scorp to be in the top half of the cast, he has to be higher than that.

List in no order, just counting names
  1. Kung Lao
  2. Jax
  3. Sonya
  4. Cassie
  5. Tanya
  6. Kung Jin
  7. Predator
  8. Shinnok
  9. Erron Black
  10. Liu Kang
  11. DVorah
  12. Kitana
  13. Raiden
  14. Quan Chi
Which one is he better than?

I don't believe Scorpion is in the top half of the cast at all IMO. Hell I think he's likely a little bit lower still.

Just putting it out there.
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
29 cast members.

Halfway point is exactly #15. For Scorp to be in the top half of the cast, he has to be higher than that.

List in no order, just counting names
  1. Kung Lao
  2. Jax
  3. Sonya
  4. Cassie
  5. Tanya
  6. Kung Jin
  7. Predator
  8. Shinnok
  9. Erron Black
  10. Liu Kang
  11. DVorah
  12. Kitana
  13. Raiden
  14. Quan Chi
Which one is he better than?

I don't believe Scorpion is in the top half of the cast at all IMO. Hell I think he's likely a little bit lower still.

Just putting it out there.
Out of this list, he might be better than Kung Jin, Kitana and maybe Sonya. As I said though, that could change out of his favor drastically with more time, especially given that there's multiple under-explored variations within this list of characters and even some not on the list. Scorp's variations are very much laid on the table as to what they currently do, that's what I'm primarily stressing more so than his current tier position.

Besides, Eddy Wang made a thread about Scorp's issues (mainly about Ninjutsu's horrible damage scaling pre-patch) a few months ago and got crucified, I'm trying to negotiate with as much middle ground as I can, lol.


Make f4 a couple frames faster
Not sure if you saw my status about it, but I've been thinking...

What if the overhead in Ninjutsu's 212 was a single normal (hypothetically I guess it would be mapped to F1) and was special cancellable or popped up?

212 doesn't really do anything in it's current state. But would this be too busted or not do enough?
 
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I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
I know, I get what you are doing, being humble so the dbaga don't accuse you of downplaying, I don't blame you. I wouldn't worry tho, it's not like you are asking for Quan Chi buffs.

I just think his nerf was so unnecessary.
 

aieches

#freeHomelee2016
@STRYKIE

While do not agree with some of the things you have suggested.. i cant deny that some/most seem very reasonable and thought out. Also, the fact that you pointed out that you do believe that he is in the Top half, tier wise, of the cast lets me feel you are being honest and just not down playing as so many others have, ..all the luck to you guys..

btw i really hate the scorpion takeda match up lol but.. hopefully NRS pays some attention and blesses the "needed adjustments/fixes" on both our houses... maybe then.. and only then.. could the Ninjitsu VS Ronin match up be a proper fight.
 

StealthyMuffin

Earth's Mightiest Knucklehead
@STRYKIE

While do not agree with some of the things you have suggested.. i cant deny that some/most seem very reasonable and thought out. Also, the fact that you pointed out that you do believe that he is in the Top half, tier wise, of the cast lets me feel you are being honest and just not down playing as so many others have, ..all the luck to you guys..

btw i really hate the scorpion takeda match up lol but.. hopefully NRS pays some attention and blesses the "needed adjustments/fixes" on both our houses... maybe then.. and only then.. could the Ninjitsu VS Ronin match up be a proper fight.
You're on Ronin, Hs?
 

Tweedy

Champion
Scorpion isn't bottom tier, but I don't know if he's top half. I think he's lower mid. Someone with an insane neutral game like Sonicfox or DJT could make Ninjutsu look great, though.
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
@STRYKIE

While do not agree with some of the things you have suggested.. i cant deny that some/most seem very reasonable and thought out. Also, the fact that you pointed out that you do believe that he is in the Top half, tier wise, of the cast lets me feel you are being honest and just not down playing as so many others have, ..all the luck to you guys..

btw i really hate the scorpion takeda match up lol but.. hopefully NRS pays some attention and blesses the "needed adjustments/fixes" on both our houses... maybe then.. and only then.. could the Ninjitsu VS Ronin match up be a proper fight.
Hey if it makes you feel better, I don't feel comfortable using Hellfire against Shirai Ryu, lol. (it could just be a personal mental block than actual match-up tools)

But yeah, I'll return the favor if Takeda players are looking to do this. Ronin can shove it though. :DOGE
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Imo ninjitsu does not need a fast overhead option. With the way ninjitsu is played he mainly relies on whiff punishing from attempts at stopping his momentum. Conditioning is huge in ninjitsu and I don't really see a fast overhead doing anything besides shifting focus on how he should be played.

Also as unexplored ninjitsu is I wouldn't rule him out as being better than some of the characters on that list. Especially ones lacking in range.
 

aieches

#freeHomelee2016
Which one is he better than?

I don't believe Scorpion is in the top half of the cast at all IMO. Hell I think he's likely a little bit lower still.

Just putting it out there.[/QUOTE]


personally i believe hes better than Jin and Jax..and inferno can hang with Hunter no prob but thats just my opinion.

You're on Ronin, Hs?
yeah man.. i been labbing him a lot lately and taking him out in the open range more...id probably be using him solely today if i get on had not @Pleasa hand me my ass over the past few days in SR mirrors..lol..i gotta focus on some knowledge he dropped on me in the past 2 sparring sessions we had..

But im def starting to gel more with ronin.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
To be more clear I don't think a fast single hitting overhead that knocks down would be a good addition to compliment ninjitsus playstyle.
 

aieches

#freeHomelee2016
Hey if it makes you feel better, I don't feel comfortable using Hellfire against Shirai Ryu, lol. (it could just be a personal mental block than actual match-up tools)

But yeah, I'll return the favor if Takeda players are looking to do this. Ronin can shove it though. :DOGE
yeah as a tip, id prob use ninjitsu or inferno against SR takeda.. i feel the tools of these are alot harder to deal with ..
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
To be more clear I don't think a fast single hitting overhead that knocks down would be a good addition to compliment ninjitsus playstyle.
I agree, and that's why I'm unsure about it, that it would deter people from using Ninjutsu for it's established tools. But my line of thinking is that it gives Scorp an overhead option in 1 variation if people feels he needs it for a matchup, it just happens to be in Ninjutsu. I think because F4 is a universal normal, less start-up on it would have to be seen in practice in all variations and would be a far riskier buff IMO.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
I agree, and that's why I'm unsure about it, that it would deter people from using Ninjutsu for it's established tools. But my line of thinking is that it gives Scorp an overhead option in 1 variation if people feels he needs it for a matchup, it just happens to be in Ninjutsu. I think because F4 is a universal normal, less start-up on it would have to be seen in practice in all variations and would be a far riskier buff IMO.
Imo ninjitsu is fine as is. Especially if we want use out of the other variations. This is just how I feel as of now, the game is still very young.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
What I would like though is a proper fix for the nerfs scorpion got in june. It fucked up too much imo.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
I've been thinking about those nerfs lately and I'm not too sure about that, he was pretty fucked pre-patch.
I'm not saying to go back to pre patch. It's just that juggles off of 214 are very inconsistent. If they can do something about that it would be nice.
 

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
I'm not saying to go back to pre patch. It's just that juggles off of 214 are very inconsistent. If they can do something about that it would be nice.
Oh nvm then, thought there was gonna be a pre-patch discussion.

And the 214 thing seems to be an unintended glitch, I'm pretty sure it'll be fixed in the next huge patch.
 

Matix218

Get over here!
29 cast members.

Halfway point is exactly #15. For Scorp to be in the top half of the cast, he has to be higher than that.

List in no order, just counting names
  1. Kung Lao
  2. Jax
  3. Sonya
  4. Cassie
  5. Tanya
  6. Kung Jin
  7. Predator
  8. Shinnok
  9. Erron Black
  10. Liu Kang
  11. DVorah
  12. Kitana
  13. Raiden
  14. Quan Chi
Which one is he better than?

I don't believe Scorpion is in the top half of the cast at all IMO. Hell I think he's likely a little bit lower still.

Just putting it out there.
IMO he might be as good as quan chi and possibly Liu kang? The rest I'd say pretty much no way he is better. He's def right in the middle somewhere

Edit: I don't think he is better than quan after thinking more about it lol. scorp is on the lower side of the middle of the pack characters most likely
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Oh nvm then, thought there was gonna be a pre-patch discussion.

And the 214 thing seems to be an unintended glitch, I'm pretty sure it'll be fixed in the next huge patch.
That would be nice considering that they didn't wait to fix dvorah lol.
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
Imo ninjitsu is fine as is. Especially if we want use out of the other variations. This is just how I feel as of now, the game is still very young.
Of course, I'm just saying it's more of a utility improvement than a direct Ninjutsu buff.


I'm not saying to go back to pre patch. It's just that juggles off of 214 are very inconsistent. If they can do something about that it would be nice.
If they fixed up 123's collision issues on hit, that would be a good remedy, it can actually lead to more damage than 214 as a starter.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
I would say give back a few frames of cancel advantage on 214 enough to not cause jails outside of 214 fbc d1 or d3. It will make the juggles work again without getting the jailing 214. If that doesn't make his fbc broken it would be fair imo.
 

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
IMO he might be as good as quan chi and possibly Liu kang? The rest I'd say pretty much no way he is better. He's def right in the middle somewhere

Edit: I don't think he is better than quan after thinking more about it lol. scorp is on the lower side of the middle of the pack characters most likely
Scorp in his current state is as mid tier as you get, which in this game is a pretty good thing.

Characters I have better than him
For sure
Raiden
Quan Chi
D'vorah
Erron Black
Kung Lao
Rooooooo Kang
Tanya
Shinnok
Predator
Cassie Cage
Jax
Kung Jin
Johnny Cage
Sonya

Most Likely Better than Scorp
Kenshi
Kano
SZ
Ermac
So he's around 18th on the Tier list, this of course as with all tier lists is just my opinion.
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
yeah as a tip, id prob use ninjitsu or inferno against SR takeda.. i feel the tools of these are alot harder to deal with ..