Is Kotal Kahn the "perfect" character of MKX right now?

[RM NoBrows]

Damn you have even harder time comprehending stuff than I imagined. Here I'll make it easy for you: there is a poll pinned up there with 3 simple options thats easy enough to grasp, please feel free to make your input.

I'm fully aware of what your point of the thread is. I came into this thread having no intention to vote or comment, just to merely see what people were saying because i was genuinely curious. Than I see the creator of this thread shutting people down with valid points and all you can say is "lol" or "no". I'm posting in this thread calling out your bullshit. Stop being a jackass if you want respect and people to actually be able to have an intelligent conversation about this game with you. Idc who it is I'll call anyone out on this website for shit like this. Stop being a dick and that's it. You are the soul purpose of me commenting on any of this thread.

 

[Belial]

I'm fully aware of what your point of the thread is. I came into this thread having no intention to vote or comment, just to merely see what people were saying because i was genuinely curious. Than I see the creator of this thread shutting people down with valid points and all you can say is "lol" or "no". I'm posting in this thread calling out your bullshit. Stop being a jackass if you want respect and people to actually be able to have an intelligent conversation about this game with you. Idc who it is I'll call anyone out on this website for shit like this. Stop being a dick and that's it. You are the soul purpose of me commenting on any of this thread.

I made a lot of points on the very same page you've "called out my bullshit" however you are too lazy to scroll a couple of messages up and actually read. because believe it or not, your opinion is quite common and I have been answering it since page 1

Do you seriously belive I can answer anything but "lol" to statements "we have to stop relying on results" line that abhors the very nature of scientific method? If all you people can come up with "results dont matter" its better you are "shut down", b/c of people like you we'd never make it past mideval era(probably wouldnt make it even that far), since everytime somebody lays facts down you people would say "IRRELEVANT WE CAN'T HAVE OPINIONS BASED ON RESULTS"(repeat 10 times and disregard any rational points)

You want me to comment on stuff like

Everyone in the beginning of the game used Bojutsu over shaolin with KJ

no, im not buying this trollish posts of yours

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Considering how widely Quan is played I'd say you're an exception. Apparently other players dont find any benefits of using Sorcerer. Also last time I saw you play was really long ago if you werent into ESL commentary maybe you could inspire more people to use Sorc. I still doubt it though, you yourself named the reasons already.


So far a lot of emotion and ZERO actual facts.
There are multiple ways to reach a consensus, of course, but in a competetive enviroment, results are the best objective method. Scientist do not take decisions based solely on thinking, they need testing to prove thinking correct. The question I put up is obvious and simple as are the facts supporting it. People are not happy their character are left out and try to find excuse, thats why they are atacking me. The Celebrity wanted to make a point got some proof and I agreed with him. You on the other hand, prefer to atack me and even logic itself, instead of providing proof. Why? Because there are no facts to support your claim. Hell, if we do it your way we'll end up with SubZero and Scorpion being the best-designed just because they are people favorites, that has nothing to do with game design or mechanics, but people will come up with pathetic and dumb reasons about potential.

hmmm good read, fascinating stuff there as usual belial

 

[Eldriken]

I made a lot of points on the very same page you've "called out my bullshit" however you are too lazy to scroll a couple of messages up and actually read. because believe it or not, your opinion is quite common and I have been answering it since page 1

Do you seriously belive I can answer anything but "lol" to statements "we have to stop relying on results" line that abhors the very nature of scientific method? If all you people can come up with "results dont matter" its better you are "shut down", b/c of people like you we'd never make it past mideval era(probably wouldnt make it even that far), since everytime somebody lays facts down you people would say "IRRELEVANT WE CAN'T HAVE OPINIONS BASED ON RESULTS"(repeat 10 times and disregard any rational points)

You want me to comment on stuff like no, im not buying this trollish posts of yours

Uh, how's he trolling? EVERYONE used Bojutsu at the beginning of MKX if they played Kung Jin. You saw next to no representation of Shaolin or Ancestral. Ever.

 

[Belial]

hmmm good read, fascinating stuff there as usual belial

Glad you liked it and finally come to realize I was 100% right. Thats a good start.

 

[Belial]

Uh, how's he trolling? EVERYONE used Bojutsu at the beginning of MKX if they played Kung Jin. You saw next to no representation of Shaolin or Ancestral. Ever.

Because, you do not read his post(i can see a pattern with you guys), thats why
he is assuming Bojitsu was used bc Shaolin

don't have representation due to lack of knowledge, thinking another character/variation is better.

and not because Bojitsu was absurdly broken and people started using shaolin only after massive nerfs to bojitsu as well as half other cast. The meta has changed not due to evolution or thinking process of smart guys like mr.NoBrows but b/c of TOURNAMENT RESULTS (suprise!!!) that presented broken stuff to the world which lead to patching

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Glad you liked it and finally come to realize I was 100% right. Thats a good start.

If thats what you have to tell yourself.













You're gonna be pretty unpopular after this thread bro

 

[Belial]

If thats what you have to tell yourself.













You're gonna be pretty unpopular after this thread bro

That's a cross I have to bear. Telling the truth has never been easy.

 

[imblackjames]

Abuse her +frames. Not just the ones off run cancels.

Ok i knew that i just suck as her lol

 

[Pan1cMode]

What is HT guna do against Sorcerer?

She does the same to sorcerer as she does to summoner. Once she's in, her block pressure is stupid (like good luck Quan stupid). Granted, this requires her to actually get in and also that there isn't an armour portal on the ground, but the MU can really go either way.

 

[RM NoBrows]

Please stop embarassing yourself. I am now 100% sure you are trolling and probably can't read very well (education these days)
But since you insist on "civilized dialogue" I'll do it just for your amusement

1) This thread is not about "best character" where did you get this idea from? Are you talking about completely irrelevant things now? Trying to derail?
2) I am talking about "right now" current patch/meta (look its in the header). But you bring up a year old meta somehow...

I will still answer that though
Indeed Outlaw Erron Black was (one of the) best characters in early game meta. It led to him going through massive nerfs during next few patches and even after it he is still used a lot in tournaments , where Bojitsu Kung Jin (another OP char at start which also got lots of nerfs) is almost wiped out from current meta

Apparently your "example" is as terrible as it gets. How was it.. ah here

Year old meta? This game came out over a year ago? Really? I didn't realize it was already past April of 2016

The erron black case was brought up from your fixation of tournament results is all that matters. I am not derailing I am making a VALID point that tournament results aren't everything, regardless of if it has to do with the OP of this joke of a thread.

As to what I said before, you still don't know what you're talking about

 

[Belial]

Year old meta? This game came out over a year ago? Really? I didn't realize it was already past April of 2016

The erron black case was brought up from your fixation of tournament results is all that matters. I am not derailing I am making a VALID point that tournament results aren't everything.

As to what I said before, you still don't know what you're talking about

And you Erron Black example has been proven to be completely irrelevant by my next comment.
Since all you have left is picking words I'd say you should grow yoursefl a pair of Brows and take the fact you've lost as a man instead of throwing insults around.

 

[RM NoBrows]

And you Erron Black example has been proven to be completely irrelevant by my next comment.
Since all you have left is picking words I'd say you should grow yoursefl a pair of Brows and take the fact you've lost as a man instead of throwing insults around.

I'm throwing insults around? You try insult my coherence, my reading capabilities and all I've said is the same thing, you don't know what you're talking about, which you dont. Yeah I said you're being a douche, because you are. And I said that you're being a prick to me along with a lot of others, which you are. It's irrelevant because you say so? Okay man. The fact that you've been throwing different insults at me along with everyone else in this thread who's been arguing/ making valid points to your flawed logic of tournament results or nothing shit, shows me that you lost all these arguments before you even started arguing.

@STORMS
@CrimsonShadow @Tim Static @YOMI RM JagoBlake

This thread has obviously turned into bickering between a lot of people and no longer has absolutely anything to do with this thread, please do us all a favor and close this shit.

 

[Belial]

I'm throwing insults around? You try insult my coherence, my reading capabilities and all I've said is the same thing, you don't know what you're talking about, which you dont. Yeah I said you're being a douche, because you are. And I said that you're being a prick to me along with a lot of others, which you are. It's irrelevant because you say so? Okay man. The fact that you've been throwing different insults at me along with everyone else in this thread who's been arguing/ making valid points to your flawed logic of tournament results or nothing shit, shows me that you lost all these arguments before you even started arguing.

@STORMS
@CrimsonShadow @Tim Static @YOMI RM JagoBlake

This thread has obviously turned into bickering between a lot of people and no longer has absolutely anything to do with this thread, please do us all a favor and close this shit.

It is irrelevant bc I provided you a proof that outlaw erron black was one of the best characters in early meta (please don't ask why not the best I don't want to explain correlation between quality and quantity to you) there is a process of how things work on this planet which you've shown astonishing ignorance of. Tournament results might not be everything bUT it's everything we have as a reliable source of data.

You come into my thread. Troll. Derail. And now ask it closed? Wow just wow

 

[CrimsonShadow]

This thread has obviously turned into bickering between a lot of people and no longer has absolutely anything to do with this thread, please do us all a favor and close this shit.

Or we can act like adults and just discuss the issue at hand instead of becoming sidetracked by the petty personal jabs.

So guys, let's calm down and keep this focused on what the thread was supposed to be about -- usage of variations.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Uh, how's he trolling? EVERYONE used Bojutsu at the beginning of MKX if they played Kung Jin. You saw next to no representation of Shaolin or Ancestral. Ever.

Not Chris G

I vividly remember watching Texas Showdown and wondering why he wouldn't go to Bojutsu. But it's probably his affinity for GA and those magic arrows.

 

[Eldriken]

Not Chris G

Oh, right. He used Ancestral, right? Whoops. =P

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

My hope is that all variations will be one day like Kotal Kahn. You can main one exclusively or you can use all adjusting to MU - your call.
Right now all this talk about "potential" doesn't hold any credit since only Kotal has solid proof. It's a shame really I have to explain such basic concepts

I'd say Kung Lao is pretty close, Buzzsaw works, but not as well as tempest, but hat trick sucks right now.

 

[Belial]

I'd say Kung Lao is pretty close, Buzzsaw works, but not as well as tempest, but hat trick sucks right now.

Buzz saw was used before tempest buff iirc. Now everyone use tempest you of all people know this best.
If variation B is just bad compared to A it can be fixed by buffs. However if variation B is just as good but still unused that's definitely poor design. Nerf tempest now - people go back to buzzsaw

 

[RM NoBrows]

It is irrelevant bc I provided you a proof that outlaw erron black was one of the best characters in early meta (please don't ask why not the best I don't want to explain correlation between quality and quantity to you) there is a process of how things work on this planet which you've shown astonishing ignorance of. Tournament results might not be everything bUT it's everything we have as a reliable source of data.

You come into my thread. Troll. Derail. And now ask it closed? Wow just wow

Me bringing that up had nothing to do with when it happened. Your basing all of your stuff off of tournament results. I understand that you're talking about the meta right now, but you can't disregard other tournaments months ago because it's not the meta it is now. Tournament results are tournament results regardless of what patch it was on, the meta of the game, etc. Every single one of my points I made have been valid. Yes, not all of my points had to do with variations rather than characters, that doesnt mean im derailing. I've never posted in a thread with the intention to be a jackass and derail. I put in my input about this thread talking abiut variations. I said in my very first post in this thread that along with kotal, quan chi, sonya blade and cassie cage also have an answer to the entire cast with their three variations. You may want just tournaments results from the last patch, but you gotta consider every tournament if "tournaments is the only reliable source of data we have"

I asked for this thread to be closed because of the ignorant arguments between me and you, @I GOT HANDS and you, you trying to call out @Eldriken saying you "see a pattern with us". I guarantee there's more than these 3 examples but for the sake of time I'm not going to check. I asked for threads to be closed once the thread no longer is talking about what the thread has been made for. Me asking for this thread to be closed has nothing to do with our argument(s). I've argued with people from this site for days/weeks at a time that was 100x worse than ours. If this thread can happen to get back on topic I have absolutely no problem with it staying open and actually discussing variations.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

But I play and have placed in every tournament I've ever entered with Sorcerer ;.;

Win something butthole

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Buzz saw was used before tempest buff iirc. Now everyone use tempest you of all people know this best.
If variation B is just bad compared to A it can be fixed by buffs. However if variation B is just as good but still unused that's definitely poor design. Nerf tempest now - people go back to buzzsaw

If Buzzsaw could get 30% meterless then we'd be talking. But yeh I get what you mean.

If they nerfed tempest you'd probably just see people jump off the band wagon. Cause I know 0 other players that play Buzzsaw properly.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Nothing obviously
because they will never meet in a tournament. Because nobody plays either.

Yeah because ketchup didn't take top 8 evo with sorcerer.

 

[SylverRye]

She does the same to sorcerer as she does to summoner. Once she's in, her block pressure is stupid (like good luck Quan stupid). Granted, this requires her to actually get in and also that there isn't an armour portal on the ground, but the MU can really go either way.

Her cancels take stamina? If so then shouldn't she be done after 2-3 run cancel loops? That would be quans chance to escape if so.

 

[SaSSolino]

If you look above I've provided points on why I think KK is unique:
Each variation is standalone-effective(doesnt need other variations)
But at the same time each variation can/is used to support another

Cowboy used necromancer a couple of times against tanya, which is counterpicking basically, I'd doubt we'd see him succeed using necro-only
Nevermind that when it comes to popular characters like Shinnok, KL, Quan etc we have a really large piece of data to look upon and we clearly see them have only 1 truly used variation. like 99% Quans are Summoner and 99% KL are Tempest and 99% Shinnok are bone shapers. This remaining % is mere deviation.

Shinnok's just the same actually. A single variation should not cover all matchups (like pre nerf bone shaper did), and neither of Shinnok's or KK's do so; and about what you said for necromancer, I could say the same with sun god actually. I'd also like to point out that Shinnoks that only play bone shaper aren't loyalists, so it's pointless to bring them out there.