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Breakthrough - Ruthless Is ferra torr good?

Unforgivxble

Unforgivxble

Don status KHAOTIC Jink
Hey hey, my first post on tym so bare with me but I've recently come across the realization that f/t might be very good and although many say lackey is his (theirs? It's?) Best variation I believe ruthless is by far the best and vicious would mainly only be used vs characters like sub zero and isn't needed for anything else because the command grab is worse and boss toss doesn't even go full screen.

Vicious- honestly not much needs to be said about it, I feel the command grab is awful for throw setups and just a negative and boss toss doesnt go full screen so using him for counter zoning isn't really viable.

Lackey- arguably f/t best variation, it has many tools the others don't have access to. For starters he gets the best down 1 in the game in my opinion being at 6f and at only minus 3 I believe and can lead to a lot of tricky situations for the opponent being down 1 into command grab tick throws, also he gains the 'safe' armored launcher that anti airs quite well, he gets the back forward 3 armored if timed correctly, and it can lead into wakeup reversals, although lackey has a some significant downsides. Although his back forward 3 has 2 hits of armor if meter burned it is excruciatingly slow and easy to whiff punish, he has no projectile in this variation and the biggest downside in my opinion is his overhead string is full combo punishable while the other two variations overhead options are completely safe. Lackey is a good variation but should be used only in certain matchups.

Ruthless- honestly what I believe to be f/t best variation without a shadow of a doubt. First of all ruthless has many many mind games off his cancels especially since he has access to a command grab like he does in his other variations. Many people know that in ruthless if you do pain and gain, you will get a hit of armor for a few frames but that won't be the case if run canceled so if I'm playing a Kung Lao and he does ex spin after 11 cancel (a cancel that isnt particularly plus) I can take the hit and whilst Lao is recovering I can get a full combo punish with forward 2 leading to high 30's for nour meter that works against a few other characters but you will only get a standing 1 punish on a majority of the cast, the pain and gain armor tactic can also be used to absorb wakeups and punish as well. He also gains a few jailing cancels such as standing 4 cancel back 1212 which is completely safe.

All in all I believe f/t is a fantastic character with his safe armor, good meter less damage, better than average pressure, great range, and plus zoning (excluding lackey). I think f/t is completely slept on in the mk community and should be explored way more.

Thanks for reading.
-KHTC Jink
 
Krabman

Krabman

Mortal
Yes. Ruthless has tons of potential and lackey complements ruthless sooooo good. Vicious is decent but I don't really see the need for it unless you have to utilize ferra toss to fight zoning or get in.
 
AceOfKnaves

AceOfKnaves

Hallucin8
On topic it's been discussed around here that F/T Has been slept on in the past.

He has all the tools needed to be a top tier character he's just missing, something.

However our resident F/T Champ-een BioHazard, has proven in many occasions that F/T is a character that is top 8 material by placing top 8 using all variations of ferra/torr in many events including this past weekends KiT
 
dennycascade

dennycascade

UPR_ghastem
Definitely viable but not up there with the A's and S tiers. Could use a few buffs, but it's not like the Jason struggle or anything like that lmao. The three variations complement each other so well.
 
Unforgivxble

Unforgivxble

Don status KHAOTIC Jink
dennycascade said:
Definitely viable but not up there with the A's and S tiers. Could use a few buffs, but it's not like the Jason struggle or anything like that lmao. The three variations complement each other so well.
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True, would argue he's up in the A's though I just can't think of anything he doesn't have, or needs
 
Trauma_and_Pain

Trauma_and_Pain

Filthy Casual
In my amateur opinion the character is decent. I would say best to worst is Ruthless > Vicious > Lackey, but it varies so much based on matchup that this isn't a very helpful way to look at it.
Unforgivxble said:
Although his back forward 3 has 2 hits of armor if meter burned
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IIRC the EX version has 4 hits of armor.

Unforgivxble said:
his overhead string is full combo punishable while the other two variations overhead options are completely safe
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Not completely safe. Ruthless and Vicious have a gap in close range between B23 and 2+4. The gap is not present at longer range.

But yeah, he's not as bad as many people think and sadly underrepresented. F/T has a great design.

By the by, you could just post this sort of thing in the General discussion under F/T forum, which is like an ongoing well... general discussion thread, that way we keep the number of threads down.
 
UsedForGlue

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
I had Ferra/Torr low on our UK tier list.

But once I properly learned the character to teach the EU ESL guys the MU (in which only Foxy was intent on training for) because he wanted to be prepared incase of another Jason moment, we both began to realise that Ferra/Torr is better than we thought, and defiantly should be higher on the tier list.

Across the three variations, S/he has what S/he needs to win against anyone, but all three variations must be implemented in order to win with and compete at the highest level.
 
Unforgivxble

Unforgivxble

Don status KHAOTIC Jink
Trauma_and_Pain said:
In my amateur opinion the character is decent. I would say best to worst is Ruthless > Vicious > Lackey, but it varies so much based on matchup that this isn't a very helpful way to look at it.


IIRC the EX version has 4 hits of armor.


Not completely safe. Ruthless and Vicious have a gap in close range between B23 and 2+4. The gap is not present at longer range.

But yeah, he's not as bad as many people think and sadly underrepresented. F/T has a great design.

By the by, you could just post this sort of thing in the General discussion under F/T forum, that way we keep the number of threads down.
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Yes agreed, wasn't sure if the overhead gap was worth noting because throwing it out like that isn't advised imo, but thanks, I will keep that in mind.
 
Unforgivxble

Unforgivxble

Don status KHAOTIC Jink
UsedForGlue said:
I had Ferra/Torr low on our UK tier list.

But once I properly learned the character to teach the EU ESL guys the MU (in which only Foxy was intent on training for) because he wanted to be prepared incase of another Jason moment, we both began to realise that Ferra/Torr is better than we thought, and defiantly should be higher on the tier list.

Across the three variations, S/he has what S/he needs to win against anyone, but all three variations must be implemented in order to win with and compete at the highest level.
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Yes! Couldn't agree more.
 
Krabman

Krabman

Mortal
UsedForGlue said:
I had Ferra/Torr low on our UK tier list.


Across the three variations, S/he has what S/he needs to win against anyone, but all three variations must be implemented in order to win with and compete at the highest level.
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That's what I really like about F/t. He's one of the few characters that gives you a HUGE pay out for being a character loyalist.
 
Skedar70

Skedar70

Warrior
Yess I agree. I started using ruthless after the awesome cancel buff. I realized the character is very good and that the tier list putting them so low was simply lack of exposure and exploration since only biohazard plays him competitively. I found Vicious only useful against Cyberkano because of the knife, but in all other cases, Ruthless. I haven't learned lackey but from what I see its pretty good also.
 
Unforgivxble

Unforgivxble

Don status KHAOTIC Jink
La
Skedar70 said:
Yess I agree. I started using ruthless after the awesome cancel buff. I realized the character is very good and that the tier list putting them so low was simply lack of exposure and exploration since only biohazard plays him competitively. I found Vicious only useful against Cyberkano because of the knife, but in all other cases, Ruthless. I haven't learned lackey but from what I see its pretty good also.
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Lacky is best used against high pressure characters like Liu or someone like that because for a bar you will get damage As apposed to like 13 percent
 
Trauma_and_Pain

Trauma_and_Pain

Filthy Casual
Unforgivxble said:
La

Lacky is best used against high pressure characters like Liu or someone like that because for a bar you will get damage As apposed to like 13 percent
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I think the reason he's preferred against pressure characters is that d1 is so good for getting them off your ass, and ex-Torryuken slips between any gaps nicely.

Ruthless can still punish harder than Lackey and do it without spending any meter, but the best it can do between gaps is probably ex-dbf1.
 
Unforgivxble

Unforgivxble

Don status KHAOTIC Jink
Trauma_and_Pain said:
I think the reason he's preferred against pressure characters is that d1 is so good for getting them off your ass, and ex-Torryuken slips between any gaps nicely.

Ruthless can still punish harder than Lackey and do it without spending any meter, but the best it can do between gaps is probably ex-dbf1.
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Yes, so if you are playing like Lao and there are gaps lackey might be the better choice since getting zoned out isn't going to be a problem in that mu
 
Sutter Pain

Sutter Pain

Your mothers main.
F/T is just flat out fun to play, how good he\she is largely depends on your skill and matchup knowledge. While probably not at the top of any list they remain very viable but takes a bit more work.

That is just my opinion anyways!
 
Trauma_and_Pain

Trauma_and_Pain

Filthy Casual
Unforgivxble said:
Yes, so if you are playing like Lao and there are gaps lackey might be the better choice since getting zoned out isn't going to be a problem in that mu
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I do best with Vicious or Ruthless against Lao, that's just the way the cookie crumbles in my experience. I think part of the reason why is that a lot of Laos are jumping beans because of the divekick, and db2b deals with that really well.
 
Wetdoba

Wetdoba

All too easy...
Ferra Torr is absolutely good and like others have said they stand out as one of the best designed characters in terms of uniqueness and complementary variations. The Ferra based attacks are designed to be very good on their own because there is a restriction on how often you can use them (she has to be on Torrs back). However a lot of people really have no idea how Ferra really works right now both the good and the bad parts. For instance most people dont know that the overhead close Ferra toss is plus 6 on block. On the other hand most people dont know that Ft has no overhead, command grab, or armor without Ferra, and cannot use her on wake up (except charge and grab) or immediately after because she will not be on his back right away. Ruthless is best exemplifies this since the pain n gain cancels are another thing that makes you give up Ferra based attacks for plus frames and damage boosts. Ruthless has huge meterless damage potential if you get your pain n gain stacks and is definitely the best variation overall atm. Vicious has the boss toss which is great for a few match ups but its not really worth it over the damage and pressure of Ruthless unless it completely shuts down certain tools in a match up like Reptile force balls/spit. Lackey is the best complementary variation ever since it removes that restriction of not having access to all your moves at once. Lots of armor options and D1 mixed with command grab at max range with B12 staggering is great pressure and being able to confirm off B121 into EX Torryuken into full combo is great too.

Overall the are very good Lackey and Vicious just need a little something more to complete the character. Id say their biggest weakness is having to rely on low pokes as their best anti airs. Vicious could benifit from an anti cross up normal like an U1 since its the full space control variation, I'd also like to see a MB boss toss so they have something to spend meter on too to get a little extra damage. Lackey has EX Torryuken to anti air with but a grappler really shouldnt have to spend meter to anti air so the best thing they could do is give more anti air priority to normal torryuken. After that if they made roll a little better somehow thats all they really need nothing huge. They already have amazing pokes, good pressure and space control, and are overall safe on just about everything unless you have a reversal like Cassies flipkick or a 6 frame normal punish like Jax, Shinnok, Raiden etc.
 
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