Question Intermediate Smoke Questions...

[FrothyOmen]

Hey everyone, not sure if I should revive the buried "Ask Smoke Thread" so I'm just gonna go ahead and make this new one. I've been working hard to improve my smoke the past few days and stop being a scrub, few questions for you guys.

1. Against a blocking opponent, is pressure with standing 2's, 21 bombs, 1's, and 11 bombs viable at all? Not sure if this is the correct term or not, but would it make a decent blockstring to pressure my opponent and get them to make mistakes? Especially if I mix in b2, b4, or grabs? Or is disadvantageous and just asking to get punished, or some other folly I'm not thinking of? Also how are 11, 112, and 2 on block, advantage wise?

Basically, what are my safe options on a blocking opponent? Is it ending strings in smoke bomb and then doing a d1?

2. What about crossover jump pressure? What I mean is jumping over and doing a crossover jump punch, and just doing it over and over and over. Some characters have an extremely hard time getting out of this (IE Stryker) and it allows me to mixup with sweep to play an oki game, grab, or other stuff I can name but am not good enough to do. Is this a viable tactic, or is it a bad thing to do that only works against scrubs online?

3. When am I supposed to AA with d1 dash d1 bomb? I feel like trying to do this is just gonna get me hit by a jip into combo almost every time. Is there a particularly good time to use this, like predicting somebody's jump and hitting then on startup? Or is it just inherently risky.

3.5 What is the most damaging combo off of this? Also the most consistent that deals good damage, if it is different?

4. What is the best combo off of a njp? I'm unsure of what the ideal followup is.

Thanks in advance if anyone chooses to help me out

 

[AK BeerGuyEd]

1. I like to either use b2,4 or 3, D+1, 2 as my pressure strings. I usually follow them up with low pokes similar to the video in this thread.

2. Cross over pressure is always a good thing unless its against KL or someone else that anti airs you consistently.

3. Just practice the timing with it. The D1 works great against people crossing you up more than just AA on someone that jumps in on you. You can also 2,2,D+4, Smoke Bomb crossover jumps form what I understand. I have not had enough time in the lab to test this out personally yet, but it came from NRS so it should work.

3.5 Check out the combo video thread.

4. Same answer as 3.5. The video may not cover it exactly but you should have some ideas.

 

[hardwire]

Hey everyone, not sure if I should revive the buried "Ask Smoke Thread" so I'm just gonna go ahead and make this new one. I've been working hard to improve my smoke the past few days and stop being a scrub, few questions for you guys.

1. Against a blocking opponent, is pressure with standing 2's, 21 bombs, 1's, and 11 bombs viable at all? Not sure if this is the correct term or not, but would it make a decent blockstring to pressure my opponent and get them to make mistakes? Especially if I mix in b2, b4, or grabs? Or is disadvantageous and just asking to get punished, or some other folly I'm not thinking of? Also how are 11, 112, and 2 on block, advantage wise?

NEVER TRY TO USE SOMETHING MORE THEN 1 TIME WHEN IT COMES TO STANDING ATTACKS ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS DUCK AND YOU ARE IN A WORLD OF HURT.
NEXT A GREAT PRESSURE MOVE IS YOUR 3 D1 2 STRING IT CREATES A GREAT -FRAME SITUATION.
THEN THERE IS ALWASE THE GRAB USE IT ABUSE IT.

2. What about crossover jump pressure? What I mean is jumping over and doing a crossover jump punch, and just doing it over and over and over. Some characters have an extremely hard time getting out of this (IE Stryker) and it allows me to mixup with sweep to play an oki game, grab, or other stuff I can name but am not good enough to do. Is this a viable tactic, or is it a bad thing to do that only works against scrubs online?

IT WORKS BUT IT IS NOT SAFE I WOULD SAY USE IT AS LONG AS THEY LET U BUT IF THEY CATCH ON CHANGE IT UP. REMEMBER UPERCUTS HURT MORE THEN YOU THINK.

3. When am I supposed to AA with d1 dash d1 bomb? I feel like trying to do this is just gonna get me hit by a jip into combo almost every time. Is there a particularly good time to use this, like predicting somebody's jump and hitting then on startup? Or is it just inherently risky.

YA I JUST TP PUNCH THEM ITS JUST WHAT I DO IT TENDS TO PISS THEM OFF AND ITS EASY.
BUT SOME ONE ELSE CAN ANSWER THIS BETTER THEN ME.

3.5 What is the most damaging combo off of this? Also the most consistent that deals good damage, if it is different?

I WOULD SAY IF YOU HIT WITH THE SMOKE BOMB PROB GONNA BE 3 D1 2 JUMP KICK GRAB BUT SOME ONE ELSE PROBLY KNOWS BETTER THEN ME.

4. What is the best combo off of a njp? I'm unsure of what the ideal followup is.

3 D1 2 3 D1 2 (I USE AT THIS POINT DASH IN 2 1 SMOKE) BUT I BET A JUMP KICK AIR THROW WORKS BETTER.

Thanks in advance if anyone chooses to help me out
YOU ARE VERY WELCOME

My answer is capitolized in the quote.

good luck and have a great fight!

 

[FrothyOmen]

1. I like to either use b2,4 or 3, D+1, 2 as my pressure strings. I usually follow them up with low pokes similar to the video in this thread

For 1, those strings seem to leave me at a disadvantage and the opponent jumps out, pokes me, or uppercuts me to get me out. Are you sure about this or am I just not pressuring correctly by letting them out like that?

 

[MagicMan357]

a great tip to get out of the stupid cross jump punch trap is do a move that gets you out lol like move away

You have to train yourself though, takes time

 

[G4S KT]

1. Against a blocking opponent, is pressure with standing 2's, 21 bombs, 1's, and 11 bombs viable at all? Not sure if this is the correct term or not, but would it make a decent blockstring to pressure my opponent and get them to make mistakes? Especially if I mix in b2, b4, or grabs? Or is disadvantageous and just asking to get punished, or some other folly I'm not thinking of? Also how are 11, 112, and 2 on block, advantage wise?

Basically, what are my safe options on a blocking opponent? Is it ending strings in smoke bomb and then doing a d1?

I actually make it a point to not use standing 1 or 2 to block pressure. Smoke really lacks in the stutter string department (and block pressure in general); his normals come out pretty slow and take a while to recover so it's best to just avoid it. Sometimes it's good for a fakeout. For example you can do 112 smokebomb and it's likely they will think the string is over and unblock. Full strings should almost always be ended with either a Smokebomb or Smoke drift. The exception is 3d12 which has slight advantage on block so you can poke afterwards.

But really, All of your up close pressure should come from pokes, sweeps, and throws. Smoke is much better at circumventing block than he is hammering away at a blocking opponent.

2. What about crossover jump pressure? What I mean is jumping over and doing a crossover jump punch, and just doing it over and over and over. Some characters have an extremely hard time getting out of this (IE Stryker) and it allows me to mixup with sweep to play an oki game, grab, or other stuff I can name but am not good enough to do. Is this a viable tactic, or is it a bad thing to do that only works against scrubs online?

With the exception of against KungWOW, crossovers are one of the most important tools in the game. After they block something of yours it's almost never a bad idea to cross up. Jumping at them from a few steps away (fishing for a cross up or jump in punch) from neutral is a good way to get AA'd, however.

3. When am I supposed to AA with d1 dash d1 bomb? I feel like trying to do this is just gonna get me hit by a jip into combo almost every time. Is there a particularly good time to use this, like predicting somebody's jump and hitting then on startup? Or is it just inherently risky.

3.5 What is the most damaging combo off of this? Also the most consistent that deals good damage, if it is different?

AA-ing with d1 is very space dependent, but the hatbox on d1 is deceptively large. There's a golden distance (right at sweep range) where they can catch you with a jump in punch before you can hit them with d1. against this it's better to (on reaction) jump at them and go for an air-to-air or whiff a TP to escape. If they jump at you from outside sweep you can step into position and d1 them and if they cross you up from right in your face you can d1 them. There is risk to this, though. Mistiming the d1 against a crossup will get you hit.

The most damaging combo off of d1 is 35% one meter, 25% meterless. They are in too high a level of fall to get any more. (I updated the jackalope video; it's in there)

4. What is the best combo off of a njp? I'm unsure of what the ideal followup is.

I'm not sure what the best is, but I normally go for nip > 3d12 > 3d12 > jkick/airthrow because it's simple. I forget how much damage it does. If anyone has better, I'm all ears.

 

[FrothyOmen]

Awesome, this answered all of my questions. Just gotta find a practice partner to grind with for a while to really learn the d1 AA

 

[G4S KT]

Interesting find:

Standing 2 is actually pretty good for pressure when you're right in their face, especially in the corner. Now, you can't dash cancel his normals to follow up and stay on your opponent (the window comes too late into the cooldown animation for it to be effective. I knew this and it's the reason I dismissed stuttered normals for Smoke's pressure).

The weird thing is, you can cancel standing 2 into more standing 2's much more quickly. You can throw a few if you're right in their face, like after a blocked jump in punch or something, but they get pushed out of range quickly.

HOWEVER, if you have them cornered you can just spam standing 2's at them for good pressure fishing for a 214 started corner combo. Check it out.

 

[SZSR]

Interesting find:

Standing 2 is actually pretty good for pressure when you're right in their face, especially in the corner. Now, you can't dash cancel his normals to follow up and stay on your opponent (the window comes too late into the cooldown animation for it to be effective. I knew this and it's the reason I dismissed stuttered normals for Smoke's pressure).

The weird thing is, you can cancel standing 2 into more standing 2's much more quickly. You can throw a few if you're right in their face, like after a blocked jump in punch or something, but they get pushed out of range quickly.

HOWEVER, if you have them cornered you can just spam standing 2's at them for good pressure fishing for a 214 started corner combo. Check it out.

So are you saying we can't dash cancel into 2's but we can "cancel" into them by just spamming 2? I know you can pseudo-pressure someone by dashing up with d1's and d3's and throwing in 2's to keep them in check, but how effective can this be?

 

[G4S KT]

Well, what I mean is standing 2 comes out really fast if you tap 2 while stationary. It's slower if you try to follow it up with a dash cancelled into another 2. This is why its good for corner pressure because you don't have to follow up you can just throw 2 at them over and over and they come out quickly.

You can't mash 2 either, you gotta find the rhythm pocket.

Sent from my Eris using Tapatalk

 

[FrothyOmen]

If you find that rhythm pocket, you can double that rhythm and still have it come out at the same speed. In case mashing like that helps somebody <_<

 

[Dan]

Awesome, this answered all of my questions. Just gotta find a practice partner to grind with for a while to really learn the d1 AA

What is AA? Anti-Air?

 

[InstantClasSiik]

AA = Anti Air, you are correct

 

[TrickyNick]

Hey guys I have a question about smoke as I just picked him up a few days ago.

When im in footsie range with my opponent alot of times I will F4 into smoke towards if they block then I end up crossing them over. Now after the F4 on block my opponent has time to hit me out of the smoke towards but in most cases there attacks wiff and they punch the air as I creep up behind them with a quick 2,1 smoke bomb. After further experimenting with smoke towards to cross the opponent up after blocked combos ive noticed it to be pretty effective. I like to add in D4 smoke towards, B2,3 smoke towards to catch them off guard and mix in throws. The smoke toward after combos can be punished but they need to time it right and use a fast move.

Also in the corner ive not yet been able to figure this one out. Sometimes after F4 or other combos if I do Smoke Towards when my opponents back is to the wall instead of me appearing behind them I stay infront, but here is the cool thing if they try to hit me after smoke towards there hits register as im in the corner but I reappear in front of them while they punch the wall open for a full combo by smoke. This only happens occasionally can't figure out the correct circumstances yet.

Just wanted to post this and see if anyone has found a valid strategy with this for pressure. I realize its a risky move but I feel like it could be effective. Has anyone else noticed these things?

 

[shoshinsha]

Hey guys I have a question about smoke as I just picked him up a few days ago.

When im in footsie range with my opponent alot of times I will F4 into smoke towards if they block then I end up crossing them over. Now after the F4 on block my opponent has time to hit me out of the smoke towards but in most cases there attacks wiff and they punch the air as I creep up behind them with a quick 2,1 smoke bomb. After further experimenting with smoke towards to cross the opponent up after blocked combos ive noticed it to be pretty effective. I like to add in D4 smoke towards, B2,3 smoke towards to catch them off guard and mix in throws. The smoke toward after combos can be punished but they need to time it right and use a fast move.

Also in the corner ive not yet been able to figure this one out. Sometimes after F4 or other combos if I do Smoke Towards when my opponents back is to the wall instead of me appearing behind them I stay infront, but here is the cool thing if they try to hit me after smoke towards there hits register as im in the corner but I reappear in front of them while they punch the wall open for a full combo by smoke. This only happens occasionally can't figure out the correct circumstances yet.

Just wanted to post this and see if anyone has found a valid strategy with this for pressure. I realize its a risky move but I feel like it could be effective. Has anyone else noticed these things?

One of my common practices is to poke with b23 or 214 and use it to confirm: go into smoke bomb on hit or smoke towards on block. You just have to know the character you're facing and not get predictable. Against a (good) Reptile or Kung Lao, it's a bad idea to do such a thing more than once or twice a match.

 

[TrickyNick]

One of my common practices is to poke with b23 or 214 and use it to confirm: go into smoke bomb on hit or smoke towards on block. You just have to know the character you're facing and not get predictable. Against a (good) Reptile or Kung Lao, it's a bad idea to do such a thing more than once or twice a match.

Yea due to the spin and dash. Maybe after 214, block everyonce in a while to bait it out for a 2,1 smoke bomb punish of course this is just situational. So you would say its a decent Mix up if used sparingly?

 

[FrothyOmen]

I really should mix that smoke towards cross up into my play, sparingly. Never really thought about doing that before, thanks for the idea. I assume that it's risky since it can be beaten by fast specials/pokes?

PS Nick You have an amazing Rain. I remember playing you a couple weeks ago, you felt pretty much untouchable D:

 

[TrickyNick]

I really should mix that smoke towards cross up into my play, sparingly. Never really thought about doing that before, thanks for the idea. I assume that it's risky since it can be beaten by fast specials/pokes?

PS Nick You have an amazing Rain. I remember playing you a couple weeks ago, you felt pretty much untouchable D:

Hey thanks alot man lol. Ive been using Rain and Smoke alot here lately. I remember playing you as well nice smoke by the way.

Yea I think the Smoke towards after a blocked combo has its advantages especially if they time it wrong and began there combo with me going behind them lol. Maybe if we can condition the opponent to let there guard down after a blocked combo in to smoke towards they will be open for a combo ending in smoke bomb. Just brainstorming though

 

[sumkindofdemon]

still reading most of this thread but i just wanted to ask it is in regards to the otg smoke bomb. i know the ex is still otg. but didnt the normal one get patched?

or can u still otg on normal smoke bombs but just under certain situations?

 

[FrothyOmen]

You cannot OTG after an air throw. You can OTG after an air to air punch for a 24%-ish combo. You can OTG one time mid combo, for example b2 3 smoke bomb or 3 d1 2 bomb or b1 4 EX bomb. You can throw a bomb after an air throw, but it will not OTG, it will either whiff or be blocked.

 

[arydious]

You cannot OTG after an air throw. You can OTG after an air to air punch for a 24%-ish combo. You can OTG one time mid combo, for example b2 3 smoke bomb or 3 d1 2 bomb or b1 4 EX bomb. You can throw a bomb after an air throw, but it will not OTG, it will either whiff or be blocked.

I really thought i could throw an otg smokebomb after an air-throw i guess that is just a training mode glitch then. At the same time if you mix it in after the air throw every now and then i can see it being effective either A stall it just a little and you can catch the person standing up to head towards you are B if they decide to lay there it will mess with them. I was almost positive i was hitting otg smoke bomb after an airthrow though, but maybe i was just wasting meter. Im going to have to test this now.

 

[TrickyNick]

The more I play smoke I realize just how much of a time based character he is. The hardest character ive played with online. I honestly beleive he relies more on timing then any character in the game. His combos with smoke bomb, his shake, anti-airs from a d+1. All of smokes punishes have timing issues compared to the rest of the cast. The slightest bit of lag throws me off like crazy. Hes turning out to be one of my favs though.

 

[FrothyOmen]

Arydious, are you using the MK2 costume? it's bugged and allows an OTG after air throw, which has been patched out, that may be where your confusion is coming from. With his normal costumes you cannot OTG after air throw. EX Smoke Bomb after an air throw, if timed correctly, gives a free 10% damage instead.

Nick, I can't wait to play you again and get beaten down with my own main this will be bad lol

 

[TrickyNick]

Arydious, are you using the MK2 costume? it's bugged and allows an OTG after air throw, which has been patched out, that may be where your confusion is coming from. With his normal costumes you cannot OTG after air throw. EX Smoke Bomb after an air throw, if timed correctly, gives a free 10% damage instead.

Nick, I can't wait to play you again and get beaten down with my own main this will be bad lol

nah I still have alot of work to do with him lol, but up for some matches when you want. Hopefully you could show me a few good tricks:top:

 

[FrothyOmen]

Man you could beat me with sheeva. In those rain games you were so far inside my head that it wasnt even worth playing haha. But once I get my roommate's Xbox working on campus internet I'll be back online to play some more.