Interesting Question

[Big Pampering]

To be clear, I was sarcastic about F3 sucking ass.

oh yeah I know lol, I just wanted to add more information to your post.

 

[Ray'sGoodLiquor]

poor kenshi must be hard throwing everyone back to fullscreen with 1 move over and over .. you forgot to mention his shitty b2 also. it's so bad like... why does anyone play this guy

Kenshi is free to crossovers, too.

 

[STRYKIE]

This thread is asking for a clusterfuck of misinformation.

Technically, Kenshi is the most 'broken' character listed here... it's just the Edenian drama queens are so busy wetting their tampons over how hard done by their characters are that they fail to acknowledge the aspects where that same brokenness can come back to bite Kenshi in the ass, even against characters in the lower half of the tier list.

Kabal beating everyone at least 6-4 still seems like some laughable Trojan horse to make NRS feel bad and patch the game. Historically, when a character has that distinction in a fighting game, it's because of an overwhelming and absolute tool that nothing or nobody can do anything about. Kabal is more about the quantity of tools he has, collectively and in conjunction with each other. Statistically, the most OP character, for some reason there seems to be some stigma towards drawing the line between broken and OP, or that broken doesn't always supersede OP.

Cyrax... Pretty much sums up that human error is a thing, and that "at the highest possible level" will never be a completely valid talking point.

Any reason to ban any of these characters essentially contradict each other.

 

[JTB123]

I voted for Cyrax, Kabal and Kenshi are all kinds of dumb but it is pretty saddening to watch someone quite literally die off a 1 bar combo from Cyrax. But LBSH all 3 of them are complete horse shit.

 

[STRYKIE]

Also Kenshi struggling to build meter might just be my favorite TYM comment of 2014.

I dunno about "struggling" to build meter but there is some exaggerations concerning Kenshi's meter build, I suppose it's another one of those 'through your main's view' arguments.

 

[KH_Seraph]

Having played Cat's Kabal offline on a consistent basis, the Liu Kang / Kabal matchup is definitely 5-5, but it's a bastard 5-5 to deal with because if Kabal's armored NDC. He can't really zone Liu out as badly because of his own instant air fb, low fb, and other tools to get through. The LK / Kenshi matchup in contrast is nearly unwinnable.

I also feel like the Kabal Cyrax matchup is 5-5 as well. Only character that needs banning is Cyrax imho because even if you drop his reset, you could do around 50% damage still.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

It didnt' let me vote for "all of the above"

 

[Justice]

I vote Quan. Dat rune trap is soo OP yo!

 

[WakeUp DP]

How about Kenshi, Cyrax, Kabal, Sonnya and Kitana?

 

[FOREVER PERSEUS]

I don't think you should ban any of them they have all been beatin even on a top lvl so why ban someone's main charecter. If you do so a lot of people I think would not play over the fact that could be the only one they use. My thing is if they have been beatin on a top player such as reo kabal or maxter Cyrax or pigs Kenshi they have all been beatin I say none

 

[JTB123]

I dunno about "struggling" to build meter but there is some exaggerations concerning Kenshi's meter build, I suppose it's another one of those 'through your main's view' arguments.

I'd never really tested his meter building before this thread as I'd never seen Kenshi's meter building be described as anything but great.

This is only for his main 3 specials though:

It takes 7 blocked TK Flurries to build 1 bar of meter. 14.28% per blocked.

It takes 8 blocked TK slashes to build 1 bar of meter. 12.5% per blocked.

It takes 9 blocked barges to build 1 bar of meter. 11.1% per blocked.

If you block one of each of these special moves trying to get in on Kenshi he will have built a minimum of 37.78% of one bar.

His meter building is pretty damn good, definitely not the best in the game, but very good.

 

[coolwhip]

I'd never really tested his meter building before this thread as I'd never seen Kenshi's meter building be described as anything but great.

This is only for his main 3 specials though:

It takes 7 blocked TK Flurries to build 1 bar of meter. 14.28% per blocked.

It takes 8 blocked TK slashes to build 1 bar of meter. 12.5% per blocked.

It takes 9 blocked barges to build 1 bar of meter. 11.1% per blocked.

If you block one of each of these special moves trying to get in on Kenshi he will have built a minimum of 37.78% of one bar.

His meter building is pretty damn good, definitely not the best in the game, but very good.

To be clear, I never said best in the game. I said "one of the best." Kenshi as you pointed out, builds plenty of meter. But it's not just that. The nature of many of his match-ups gives him an even easier time building meter. In other words, a move can build a lot of meter but not easily abused (say Kung Lao's 2121 string. Not saying it's not good, but you certainly don't use it left and right), but the way Kenshi controls space and makes it difficult for characters to get in on him means he has an even easier time using these moves and building meter.

 

[Peckapowa]

LOL @ Kenshi's normals "sucking ass." If someone says that, they really don't understand how Kenshi works. Kenshi doesn't need overwhelmingly good normals. He intends on keeping you out, and the moment you're within dash range he can just dash in and do his 50/50 (you know,by actually using his normals). Yeah, Kenshi's f3 with its great range and phantom hitbox totally "sucks ass." His d3 is great for lowering his hitbox, both his standing 1 and standing 2's are really good anti-airs, and the moment you're in on him, d3/d1 into ex shoulder and you're either out again, or he's at +8. And of course, nobody mentions Kenshi's corner game too much because well, he doesn't even need it in most match-ups. But it's pretty damn good.

Also Kenshi struggling to build meter might just be my favorite TYM comment of 2014.

its not like kenshi doesn't have an advancing safe mid launcher, an advancinghit confirmable safe low launcher, a 13% advancing anti-air hitbox overhead which at the proper distance jails into shoulder, and a 3 hit string with delayed cancel advantage for the ability to mix up pressure and shoulder which ends in an overhead and can be staggered at all 3 phases because its always neutral. plus its not like he has an anti-airing armored frame trap to follow them up with incase he wants ot pretend he's johnny cage... oh did i forget re-mention he pretty much has the second most op d3 in the game outside of shang tsung. for crying outlou dhe barely needs strings when he can just shoudler and poke shoulder the whole game

 

[Peckapowa]

This thread is asking for a clusterfuck of misinformation.

Technically, Kenshi is the most 'broken' character listed here... it's just the Edenian drama queens are so busy wetting their tampons over how hard done by their characters are that they fail to acknowledge the aspects where that same brokenness can come back to bite Kenshi in the ass, even against characters in the lower half of the tier list.

Kabal beating everyone at least 6-4 still seems like some laughable Trojan horse to make NRS feel bad and patch the game. Historically, when a character has that distinction in a fighting game, it's because of an overwhelming and absolute tool that nothing or nobody can do anything about. Kabal is more about the quantity of tools he has, collectively and in conjunction with each other. Statistically, the most OP character, for some reason there seems to be some stigma towards drawing the line between broken and OP, or that broken doesn't always supersede OP.

Cyrax... Pretty much sums up that human error is a thing, and that "at the highest possible level" will never be a completely valid talking point.

Any reason to ban any of these characters essentially contradict each other.

pretty sure if we had a larger community and more money involed and more talent, kabal would have run shit so free. Literally the only character that could fight reo towards the end was the fucking 100% mongoloid and maybe a tidbit of shang tsung. He made kung lao look helpless in the fight. My ass kabal had any 5-5s

 

[Peckapowa]

Having played Cat's Kabal offline on a consistent basis, the Liu Kang / Kabal matchup is definitely 5-5, but it's a bastard 5-5 to deal with because if Kabal's armored NDC. He can't really zone Liu out as badly because of his own instant air fb, low fb, and other tools to get through. The LK / Kenshi matchup in contrast is nearly unwinnable.

I also feel like the Kabal Cyrax matchup is 5-5 as well. Only character that needs banning is Cyrax imho because even if you drop his reset, you could do around 50% damage still.

liu kang does not 5-5 kabal i am sorry, i will never believe a high hitbox character that outzones kabal by the skin of his teeth goes 5-5 with kabal. kabal outpressures him, out turtles him with the life lead, out armors him, and outfootsies him with ndc, i just don't buy it. sorry

 

[Dizzy]

Having played Cat's Kabal offline on a consistent basis, the Liu Kang / Kabal matchup is definitely 5-5, but it's a bastard 5-5 to deal with because if Kabal's armored NDC. He can't really zone Liu out as badly because of his own instant air fb, low fb, and other tools to get through. The LK / Kenshi matchup in contrast is nearly unwinnable.

I also feel like the Kabal Cyrax matchup is 5-5 as well. Only character that needs banning is Cyrax imho because even if you drop his reset, you could do around 50% damage still.

This bill of goods was already attempted to be sold to us by @MITDJT . If was proven to be a bill of goods

 

[Peckapowa]

Kenshi has my vote... You can drop cyrax combos and you can mess up your execution with kabal.. But there is just no unbreaking, the broken sack of shit that is kenshi.

7-3's or 8-2's 70% of the cast.

I've never seen a kabal or cyrax player do really well and thought this guy sucks.. But I have seen forever king beat dizzy with kenshi lol

and you can miss a shoudler with kenshi vs cyrax or even cage or reptile and lose. Don't talk to me about execution when kenshi needs to be mistake free when cyrax can risk his ass off because all he needs to do is catch you twice.

 

[KH_Seraph]

This bill of goods was already attempted to be sold to us by @MITDJT . If was proven to be a bill of goods

All due respect to @MITDJT , but his instant air fireballs aren't as on point as Shoryuken's. Top 5 Liu, but not as familiar with the Kabal matchup probably. That being said, he plays a lot of characters really well, but I wouldn't consider him a Liu specialist like XBlades, MyGod, or myself.

EDIT: I'm not trying to 'theory fight' either, this is conjecture based on personal experience fighting plenty of Kabals in the Houston scene as well, not just Cat's. It's 5-5. Maybe 5.5-4.5 Kabal's favor just because of that armored NDC, since Liu doesn't have a tool like that.

 

[JTB123]

To be clear, I never said best in the game. I said "one of the best." Kenshi as you pointed out, builds plenty of meter. But it's not just that. The nature of many of his match-ups gives him an even easier time building meter. In other words, a move can build a lot of meter but not easily abused (say Kung Lao's 2121 string. Not saying it's not good, but you certainly don't use it left and right), but the way Kenshi controls space and makes it difficult for characters to get in on him means he has an even easier time using these moves and building meter.

Sorry if it wasn't clear but I was agreeing with you, I posted the stats to back up the point. As you rightly point out his matchups and design make it very easy to force your opponent to block at least 3 or 4 of his space controlling specials before you get in, if he does, he's built potentially 50% of one bar of meter and taken anywhere from 6 to 10% chip damage from you as well. If you get caught by either barge or flurry, you now have even more space to make up which means you're going to have to block even more of them to get in. In which case he probably has a bar and can easily knock you away with a EC charge and the cycle repeats.

Should have put this in my earlier post really, my post was intended to point out Kenshi's meter building is easily one of the best in the game, just not the best.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

All due respect to @MITDJT , but his instant air fireballs aren't as on point as Shoryuken's. Top 5 Liu, but not as familiar with the Kabal matchup probably. That being said, he plays a lot of characters really well, but I wouldn't consider him a Liu specialist like XBlades, MyGod, or myself.

EDIT: I'm not trying to 'theory fight' either, this is conjecture based on personal experience fighting plenty of Kabals in the Houston scene as well, not just Cat's. It's 5-5. Maybe 5.5-4.5 Kabal's favor just because of that armored NDC, since Liu doesn't have a tool like that.

Um my iafb were quite fine lol, how do u think I was able to beat PLs and Cats kabal? Also detroit had a very close match vs me when I mained liu kang so I knew the matchup well ( dab gave me plenty kabal experience). And top 5 liu? I am still one of those. Overall the matchup is 6 4 and nothin changing that.

 

[16 Bit]

I'm already kind of sick so this thread makes me want to spew.

 

[MidTierHarley]

If you ban these three than Sonya would be the new kabal

 

[Error]

If you ban these three than Sonya would be the new kabal

Her and Cage tbh. Only Freddy can save us from this hell.

 

[FOREVER PERSEUS]

Why ban the charecters we should ban the top players...... Bhahahahaha. Adapt to a players play style and find away to beat it. That's how you lvl up.

On a different note if you bring back the old kung Lao to now day kabal who do you think would win

 

[VenomX-90]

Ahh the game is getting to you isn't? lol