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Injustice random advantage and system oddities

killa_solid

Friendly--foe
Here are a few system bugs and peculiarities that I have noticed and finally found a way to prove that I feel needs to be brought to attention.

1. Random adv
Ok this one is a big one. Hopefully, there is something I am missing here, but here is what I have found out. We all know the random adv that existed in MK9. It happened randomly on crouch block after blocking certain mid strings, and supposedly affected your ability to jump out of pressure. Well a form of random adv also exists in injustice from what I have tested, but it shows up in the form of random cancel advantage and affects you ability to interrupt a string or a string into a special.

Here is the best proof that I could find for this that eliminates the excuse being made that it's user error in regard to interrupting.

let me know if you can think of any other reason for what is happening in the video other than random cancel advantage. The cpu is set to block always and sword spin reversal.


2. The frames going from stand to crouch and perhaps vice versa is ungrabable.
This is a pretty peculiar oddity. I suspected that this might exist when I noticed on a stream, a grab missing point black and the commentator applauding the player for reading and ducking a grab and punishing, which shouldn't happen in injustice. Since than, it happened to me a few time online as well. But I never could replicate it till now.
What basically happens is that although grabs cannot be ducked in Injustice, if the grab connects on the frames of a character going from standing to crouch, the grab will whiff.
The way I replicated this is with supermans 3 trait. 3 trait is enugh adv that will gaurantee a throw attempt on block. I set the cpu to duck, block aways. and here is what happened when I timed the grab to come out after the cpu has finished his block disadvantage and can now go to duck animation.

Here is proof, that if do the grab instantly or wait till he is in crouch, I am in range to grab and therefore that grab is not whiffing due to range.


3.It takes more frames to be considered airborne with a nj than a forward or back jump
This is another odd system choice. It basically is what the heading says. You can forward jump out of certain frame traps with a forward jump but not a nj, simply because the first few frame of a neutral jump are considered grounded.

You can even cancel a nj with stance switch.

I suspect that this was implemented bc of strings where the first hit requires an up input, but the only char that I can think of that has that is Nightwing. Would have made more sense to just make Nightwing's u3 a different input and eliminate this but it is what it is. It's def something that should be noted however.


EGP Wonder_Chef
GGA Dizzy
Error
Rampage254
Bildslash
AK Pig Of The Hut
Cossner
Espio
@redraptor
 

Rampage254

Ayy Lmao
NRS never fails to fail. Good stuff on finding this.

Edit: The grabs whiffing on crouching opponents have happened to me a few times too. Kinda annoying.
 

ryublaze

Noob
Does the 1st one have something to do with training mode and pressing select? MK9 had stuff like that happen too.
 

Dizzy

False Information Police Officer
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
#1 is certainly interesting, I will definitely look into that when I get a chance.

#2 I am not saying this is the case because I don't know if this is how Injustice handles frame advantage, but in some games if you have alot of frame advantage you cannot throw the opponent until the frame advantage has worn off. If you can test something else that is massive advantage, this may be the case and it not being the standing to crouch transition that you suspect. Just something else to look into to eliminate variables.

#3 Indeed this is 100% true. This is how MK9 handled it as well. In MK9 you become airborne in 1 frame after hitting UF or UB. If you neutral jump however, it took 4 frames to become airborne. I suspect the same for Injustice.

Good stuff though, killa_solid it's always good to try and break down the system
 

Cossner

King of the Jobbers 2015
Administrator
killa_solid, the video on #3 is wrong.

But yeah I may also add, there's also an input bug in the game. It has happened to me when I'm playing Hawkgirl, I'm flying with the trait and I try to D3, I'm holding down, I press 3 but I only get that dumb flying kick ;_;

Also:

 

killa_solid

Friendly--foe
#1 is certainly interesting, I will definitely look into that when I get a chance.

#2 I am not saying this is the case because I don't know if this is how Injustice handles frame advantage, but in some games if you have alot of frame advantage you cannot throw the opponent until the frame advantage has worn off. If you can test something else that is massive advantage, this may be the case and it not being the standing to crouch transition that you suspect. Just something else to look into to eliminate variables.

#3 Indeed this is 100% true. This is how MK9 handled it as well. In MK9 you become airborne in 1 frame after hitting UF or UB. If you neutral jump however, it took 4 frames to become airborne. I suspect the same for Injustice.

Good stuff though, killa_solid it's always good to try and break down the system
For the grab whiff, the frame adv thing is what I was trying to prove with the second video as well. If I do it instantly, before the cpu has a chance to even attempt to go to crouch, the grab will connect. It only whiffs if I delay it a bit so that he has the chance to initiate crouching.
 

Dizzy

False Information Police Officer
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
For the grab whiff, the frame adv thing is what I was trying to prove with the second video as well. If I do it instantly, before the cpu has a chance to even attempt to go to crouch, the grab will connect. It only whiffs if I delay it a bit so that he has the chance to initiate crouching.
Yeah that's what I mean, delaying it would mean the frame advantage has worn off. Can you ever get the grab to whiff without transitioning to crouch? If you can't then yeah, theres a good chance you're right about the crouch thing as it's the only thing that makes sense.

I'll look into it as well too.
 

killa_solid

Friendly--foe
killa_solid, the video on #3 is wrong.

But yeah I may also add, there's also an input bug in the game. It has happened to me when I'm playing Hawkgirl, I'm flying with the trait and I try to D3, I'm holding down, I press 3 but I only get that dumb flying kick ;_;

Also:

I fixed it, thx for letting me know
 

killa_solid

Friendly--foe
Yeah that's what I mean, delaying it would mean the frame advantage has worn off. Can you ever get the grab to whiff without transitioning to crouch? If you can't then yeah, theres a good chance you're right about the crouch thing as it's the only thing that makes sense.

I'll look into it as well too.
If the cpu is set to stand aways and block always, it will never whiff. At least, I have never been able to make it whiff. It will not whiff if the cpu is set to duck and stance block as well.
It only whiffs with block always and cpu set to duck, which is the only setting that leads to a stand to duck transition.
 

Rathalos

Play Monster Hunter!
Doing it with Superman 3 xx Heat Zap. That's what you used right? It's kinda hard to tell.

At first I always got sword flipped, then I got the heat zap to work a few times.
Then I started to input heat zap as fast as I could, basically double tapping 3 well doing a backwards fireball, doing this I always got hit zap to connect.

EDIT, actually, maybe I just go lucky, I got heat zap like 100 times, and now I'm getting sword flipped again.

IDK weird.
 

Bildslash

Goro Lives 
Good stuff killa_solid!

You've been hitting the lab hard! Thanks for making us aware of these issues. I don't expect them to be fixed ever, so knowing they exist is important.

There's one more problem regarding special move cancel or buffering:

When you do a special move cancel out of a normal or string and you happen to press another direction (U, D, F, B) inmediately after, the special move won't come out. It seems the game's engine continues taking inputs after a special move command during the buffering window and thus cancels whatever it is you had input first.

This is why people have had problem in the past doing stuff like Joker's D2 xx Teeth, and with all other special moves with "command_ + button_, direction_" inputs. When they try to add the direction input for the special move's range selection their special move doesn't come out at all because they did it too early.