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Injustice: GAU Balance Suggestions

HoneyBee

Flash God Lord
(Constant Safe 50/50's) Guess you never played batgirl or just push block

(Full Screen move to whiff punish into good damge into more mixups) Not full screen but close, and also I don't get why its so hard for people to hold down midscreen or to not do anything unsafe midscreen against flash

(Trait to give almost 60 percent damage for one bar (essentially this will end each round barring clash) ) Notice what you said here TRAIT, yes I get 60% with one bar using TRAIT. While some other characters get to do 40%+ one bar or no bar (wonder women) mid screen combos and get a free OTG interactable that adds 20% unscaled damage, Flash's highest bnb combo is 36% midscreen. I can only do the trait combo twice in a match and that combo is not easy to do. So I don't see a difference between characters getting the same amount of damage using an interactable without using their TRAIT after a combo and flash doing the same thing using his TRAIT that he can use only two times a match.

(RMS cancel to give tons of frame traps) The only thing a flash player can do after RMS cancel is throw (which you can tech on reaction) or D1. You can
punish the overhead on reaction, you can back dash or again simply push block

(Best corner mixups in the game) Damn you must of forgot that batgirl, GL, wonder women, doomsday, superman, bane, catwomen, hawkgirl, and MMH are in the game

(best mixups in the game flat out) read above^^^^^^

(Extremely hard to zone with Speed Dodge and headbutt) So I guess Doomsday, bane, batgirl and hawkgirl are easy to zone?

ect. ect. ect.
There's no use in arguing lol. There comes a time where people's minds are made up. No point wasting your time.
 

JDM

Noob
Damn nothing to say?
No reason to type it out. You're clearly bad and don't know what you're talking about.

It would take 3x as much writing as you did to tell you why you're wrong in almost every aspect but there's no point to it. There's never going to be a patch for this game so this is all for nothing to be quite honest. I'm just disappointed that a good player like Honeybee would be so quick to defend his OP character but I understand why.
 

WITNESS

Worlds Famous
No reason to type it out. You're clearly bad and don't know what you're talking about.

It would take 3x as much writing as you did to tell you why you're wrong in almost every aspect but there's no point to it. There's never going to be a patch for this game so this is all for nothing to be quite honest. I'm just disappointed that a good player like Honeybee would be so quick to defend his OP character but I understand why.
lol your not going anywhere, if Iam so bad and I don't know what Iam talking about please prove me wrong I have an open mind I would like to learn why Iam wrong and you are right.
 

JDM

Noob
lol your not going anywhere, if Iam so bad and I don't what Iam talking please prove me wrong I have an open mind I would like to learn why Iam wrong and you are right.
ok I'll give you a quick summary.

-Safe 50/50's are BS. You're bringing up characters like Batgirl for why flash is OK when NO ONE is saying Batgirl's are ok. This is also one of the reasons why batgirl is top 3 while flash is only top 5. You cannot pushblock 50/50's. You block them. Then you can pushblock. 50/50s mean guess. Pushblocking doesn't save you from guessing the initial hit.

-Superman GL, Doomsday all have good corner games I'm not denying that, but Flash's corner game consists of OTG's, Left/Right mixups, Up/down mixups that are Safe or Plus on block that lead into more setups. DD doesn't have NEARLY as much options as flash, neither does Superman or Green Lantern (Supermans divebomb is negative or unsafe as well, so...). Batgirl has a great corner game but I'd say hers is top 5 while Flashs is definitively top 1. Not saying Batgirl's corner game is bad by ANY means. Also I think Lex has a top 3 corner game but he doesn't have as many tools as the top 5 do anyhow so...

-Trait giving 60 isn't really fair not because other's can get good damage without trait, it's also because it corner carries and he can do it regardless of where he is on the screen (note:interactable usage is not guaranteed unlike trait combos are). However, I don't really have a problem with his trait combos as much as I do other stuff. All the traits that are better than Flash's are pretty much top 5-10 characters and most underneath him don't have nearly as many tools as him (say, Batman for example?)

-I'll give you the RMS cancel paragraph. I honestly don't play this game TOO much anymore so they could indeed be gimmicky, I honestly cannot back my claims up as much as I want to.

-Also he does have the best mixups in the game, bar none. Batgirls are very good but midscreen she doesn't get as much damage, and her offense isn't nearly as oppressive. But I'd say they are probably 1/2 in the game mixup-wise so eh. Arguing semantics at this point.

-Regarding near full-screen headbutt. It's very hard not to do anything that can be punished by a ten frame near full screen move. Especially if flash already hit you for nearly 60 percent and is waiting for you to do the next move (assuming you got out of his ridiculous mixup and pressure game... but that's besides the point). And you HAVE To do something cause if not he's just gonna get trait back. You honestly said why is it hard for people to just (do nothing) when flash is full screen away from you? Holding down doesn't win you the match and let's flash wait time out for trait, or build meter by whiffing speed dodge.. or dash in for more pressure... etc. etc.

That's the just gist of it. Once again no real reason to bring most of this up since there's never going to be another patch but I don't get why people are defending how BS flash is of a character. I've used most characters at one point or another.
 

JDM

Noob
I never said people said he was unbeatable and said people act like he is unbeatable please quote right
No one is acting like he's unbeatable. We are saying he's very good and top 5 and probably OP. If they top tier were toned down you don't think Flash should as well? He'd run the game easily if he was allowed to be how he is now if everyone above him was nerfed.

This is also what I meant by I understand Honeybee's point of view. No one likes to hear their character is OP. Know why? Cause it feels like a lot of their skill is taken away and just accepted as they are supposed to win. I know how this feels. I use Zero and Vergil in Marvel 3 and hear people make excuses all the time. It doesn't matter how good a character is you need to be good enough to win flat out. But I won't lie and say Zero or Vergil aren't OP as fuck. Cause they are. I'm still one of the best Zeros or Vergils in the US regardless. (technically im the 8th best zero main in the world, record-wise and like top 10 vergil wise on SRK)
 
Yea alot of this list is actually just buffing certain characters so that everyone seems to have some type of gimmick/set-up that makes them overpowered....how about we nerf the top tiers and then buff the low tiers.....make it all equal. And before anyone says, ok well then lets nerf Flash, he would be complete trash without his damage in trait....well maybe not trash, but it would be so hard to win anything. So see if you only nerf the two combos that can get him to 60% so that they do like 53% instead....as long as everyone ese gets nerfs/buffs Id be fine with a damage nerf to Flash
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
-I'll give you the RMS cancel paragraph. I honestly don't play this game TOO much anymore so they could indeed be gimmicky, I honestly cannot back my claims up as much as I want to.
Very good post. But do not give Witness anything. He is either being an ignorant fool or deceiving. Probably both.

b+2,2 xx RMS is +7 on block. d+1,2 cannot be interrupted. f+2 is the safe overhead that also catches most back dashes. b+2,2 xx RMS also catches most back dashes. Honey Bee uses these mix ups well. They are anything but gimmicks.

Speaking of Honey Bee, I assume Injustice is his first competitive fighting game, so he believes that safe 50/50 mix ups are the norm in fighting games.
 

kaseyk

Noob
i agree with honeybee about the lc not being the omg to good move , most of the cast can massively punish it if he mb's it , hg gets 47%+ others im sure get as much or more .
i can see why zoners would hate it ( he needs it in those mu's but they can all punish the hell out of it on block ) and the few who get shafted by it like lex and bane but others get just as fucked by tons of moves , like grundy by hg's we3 or hg by mmh's pillars etc
 

JDM

Noob
Very good post. But do not give Witness anything. He is either being an ignorant fool or deceiving. Probably both.

b+2,2 xx RMS is +7 on block. d+1,2 cannot be interrupted. f+2 is the safe overhead that also catches most back dashes. b+2,2 xx RMS also catches most back dashes. Honey Bee uses these mix ups well. They are anything but gimmicks.

Speaking of Honey Bee, I assume Injustice is his first competitive fighting game, so he believes that safe 50/50 mix ups are the norm in fighting games.
I gave it to him cause I could not retort, but thank you. And yeah I know, I don't wanna call honeybee out for that cause I genuinely like his gameplay either way.
 

WITNESS

Worlds Famous
ok I'll give you a quick summary.

-Safe 50/50's are BS. You're bringing up characters like Batgirl for why flash is OK when NO ONE is saying Batgirl's are ok. This is also one of the reasons why batgirl is top 3 while flash is only top 5. You cannot pushblock 50/50's. You block them. Then you can pushblock. 50/50s mean guess. Pushblocking doesn't save you from guessing the initial hit.

-Superman GL, Doomsday all have good corner games I'm not denying that, but Flash's corner game consists of OTG's, Left/Right mixups, Up/down mixups that are Safe or Plus on block that lead into more setups. DD doesn't have NEARLY as much options as flash, neither does Superman or Green Lantern (Supermans divebomb is negative or unsafe as well, so...). Batgirl has a great corner game but I'd say hers is top 5 while Flashs is definitively top 1. Not saying Batgirl's corner game is bad by ANY means. Also I think Lex has a top 3 corner game but he doesn't have as many tools as the top 5 do anyhow so...

-Trait giving 60 isn't really fair not because other's can get good damage without trait, it's also because it corner carries and he can do it regardless of where he is on the screen (note:interactable usage is not guaranteed unlike trait combos are). However, I don't really have a problem with his trait combos as much as I do other stuff. All the traits that are better than Flash's are pretty much top 5-10 characters and most underneath him don't have nearly as many tools as him (say, Batman for example?)

-I'll give you the RMS cancel paragraph. I honestly don't play this game TOO much anymore so they could indeed be gimmicky, I honestly cannot back my claims up as much as I want to.

-Also he does have the best mixups in the game, bar none. Batgirls are very good but midscreen she doesn't get as much damage, and her offense isn't nearly as oppressive. But I'd say they are probably 1/2 in the game mixup-wise so eh. Arguing semantics at this point.

-Regarding near full-screen headbutt. It's very hard not to do anything that can be punished by a ten frame near full screen move. Especially if flash already hit you for nearly 60 percent and is waiting for you to do the next move (assuming you got out of his ridiculous mixup and pressure game... but that's besides the point). And you HAVE To do something cause if not he's just gonna get trait back. You honestly said why is it hard for people to just (do nothing) when flash is full screen away from you? Holding down doesn't win you the match and let's flash wait time out for trait, or build meter by whiffing speed dodge.. or dash in for more pressure... etc. etc.

That's the just gist of it. Once again no real reason to bring most of this up since there's never going to be another patch but I don't get why people are defending how BS flash is of a character. I've used most characters at one point or another.

(Safe 50/50's are BS. You're bringing up characters like Batgirl for why flash is OK when NO ONE is saying Batgirl's are ok. This is also one of the reasons why batgirl is top 3 while flash is only top 5. You cannot pushblock 50/50's. You block them. Then you can pushblock. 50/50s mean guess. Pushblocking doesn't save you from guessing the initial hit.) No one seems to want talk about Wonder Women, catwomen or killer frost one it comes to midscreen safe 50/50 and they are not even top 5. Let me correct myself if you guess right push block but most of the time you can just backdash and don't say oh your LC will catch me. I have to do that on a read and even if I do guess right flash's LC can go through you.


(Superman GL, Doomsday all have good corner games I'm not denying that, but Flash's corner game consists of OTG's, Left/Right mixups, Up/down mixups that are Safe or Plus on block that lead into more setups. DD doesn't have NEARLY as much options as flash, neither does Superman or Green Lantern (Supermans divebomb is negative or unsafe as well, so...). Batgirl has a great corner game but I'd say hers is top 5 while Flashs is definitively top 1. Not saying Batgirl's corner game is bad by ANY means. Also I think Lex has a top 3 corner game but he doesn't have as many tools as the top 5 do anyhow so...) LMAO flash has only one OTG in the corner all you have to do is block low. DD you can't even wake up in the corner or he will reverse your so you are left with few options. Like I said before catwomen and wonder women have safe 50/50 as well and just as good as flash. So I want you to go and play a good Wonder women and a good catwomen and still tell me flash is number one in corner mixup


(Trait giving 60 isn't really fair not because other's can get good damage without trait, it's also because it corner carries and he can do it regardless of where he is on the screen (note:interactable usage is not guaranteed unlike trait combos are). However, I don't really have a problem with his trait combos as much as I do other stuff. All the traits that are better than Flash's are pretty much top 5-10 characters and most underneath him don't have nearly as many tools as him (say, Batman for example?)) Iam pretty sure most combos in this game carry you. Now are they like flash's carry no but they still get you closer to the corner each combo you do. And please tell me a stage were interactable usage is not guaranteed?

(Regarding near full-screen headbutt. It's very hard not to do anything that can be punished by a ten frame near full screen move. Especially if flash already hit you for nearly 60 percent and is waiting for you to do the next move (assuming you got out of his ridiculous mixup and pressure game... but that's besides the point). And you HAVE To do something cause if not he's just gonna get trait back. You honestly said why is it hard for people to just (do nothing) when flash is full screen away from you? Holding down doesn't win you the match and let's flash wait time out for trait, or build meter by whiffing speed dodge.. or dash in for more pressure... etc. etc.) No its really not that hard to do nothing. At full screen flash can only build meter like you said or try to make a read with LC. Other than that I can dash in (which you can punish on reaction)
 

WITNESS

Worlds Famous
Very good post. But do not give Witness anything. He is either being an ignorant fool or deceiving. Probably both.

b+2,2 xx RMS is +7 on block. d+1,2 cannot be interrupted. f+2 is the safe overhead that also catches most back dashes. b+2,2 xx RMS also catches most back dashes. Honey Bee uses these mix ups well. They are anything but gimmicks.

Speaking of Honey Bee, I assume Injustice is his first competitive fighting game, so he believes that safe 50/50 mix ups are the norm in fighting games.
b22 is only +3 not 7 on block, d12 can be interrupted by a 7 frame move or less.
 

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
This Flash debate gives me impression that people have forgotten that there are more than like 12 characters in this game. Which is unsurprising when tournaments and similar events are the only thing that keep people's memories about this game fresh.

Reading about hard life of top 5 mains in NRS games sometimes feels like I've missed #firstworldproblems somewhere when I opened this thread or something.

I can agree that buffing bad characters is a better idea in general and that it's better to avoid nerfing anything good to the state of becoming unremarkable run of the mill stuff in a game like this, but there's difference between taking away tools and thus streamlining gameplay, and making characters use some of their powers responsibly (well, it's a superhero game, so I think wording like this is appropriate :p ).