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Injustice #13 discussion

Ca$hFlagg

Ca$hFlagg

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Since the TYM staff have forgotten our weekly comic series, I wanted to create a place for the community to speak on the newest installment.

I haven't read any Flash but I really liked the spotlight being on him. I really liked that inner struggle and sympathized with him.

There are a lot of people out there who fail to act in critical situations and this really humanized the character for me. It's hard to like a Mr. Perfect because it is hard to relate. Great move on the writer's part.

I'd like to hear from some others and what they took from the new book.
 
Phase 3

Phase 3

Feels Good Man
I felt extremely conflicted after reading this chapter. On one hand I think it was among the best chapters because it focused on the brutally sobering reality of Superman's regime, but on the flipside it painted him as a far less sympathetic villain to the point of bordering on cliche.

I think the greater narrative was always destined to live or die based on their ability to temper Superman's reformed ideals with enough reasonable actions to feel as though both Batman and Superman had valid stances. This is why Kingdom Come is so amazing, it doesn't simply devolve into a good vs. evil struggle the way I fear Injustice will.

Speaking purely of the Flash and the events of this story though, yeah -- it's a fantastic chapter.
 
Ca$hFlagg

Ca$hFlagg

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Good shit Phase. I agree, very easy to side with Batman as the more rational one.

Really hard to get on Superman's side here. I don't know many people that are willing to give up their free will for more security (or the illusion of more security).
 
Ca$hFlagg

Ca$hFlagg

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Which side are you referring to? I can only see Batman's side.

Superman is this dude that is flying (ha) off the handle murdering / maiming anyone that isn't on board. His right hand woman has shown herself to be a master deceiver with an "ends justify the means" mentality. The rest of his crew are sheep, heads in the sand, often just taking orders blindly without question. Not very heroic.

Good for Batsy. Someone needs to protect humanity from the "heroes".
 
Exar0s

Exar0s

Cassie Cage <3
I enjoyed it a lot. I always liked the Flash but it's hard to paint Superman as the bad guy here. His city was destroyed, his woman and child were killed and 10+ million people died. I'm having a hard time not hating Batman. He let the Joker go to Metropolis, destroy the city and civilians, poison Clark which caused him to kill his woman and child. Naturally Superman is going to kill the Joker, who wouldn't? Batman tried to stop him, tried to protect the Joker even after 10 million people are dead.

Superman's parents were kidnapped next, where was Batman? Aqua Man unleashed his army on the surface world, where was Batman? When Superman confronted Batman about everything he had no good answer, the Dark Knight sounded like the boy scout this time around. He then warns Aqua Man that Superman is coming to stop him, why? People bash Superman all the time for being the "boy scout". Why are they bashing him now? If you had Superman's powers and all this happened to you, would you not do the same thing?
 
Ca$hFlagg

Ca$hFlagg

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Good point. However, killing the Joker is wrong. You can't be a one man judge, jury, and executioner. There needs to be checks and balances to maintain legitimacy. That's why Barman cannot stand by Superman. They no longer share the same ideals.

You can't murder and still be considered a hero. You can be an Anti-hero, villain, somewhere in the gray.

I guess in short, you can't murder a person in cold blood and expect your crime fightin' pal to stand by you. Batman beats fuckers up for doing shit like that.
 
Ca$hFlagg

Ca$hFlagg

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Exar0s said:
I enjoyed it a lot. I always liked the Flash but it's hard to paint Superman as the bad guy here. His city was destroyed, his woman and child were killed and 10+ million people died. I'm having a hard time not hating Batman. He let the Joker go to Metropolis, destroy the city and civilians, poison Clark which caused him to kill his woman and child. Naturally Superman is going to kill the Joker, who wouldn't? Batman tried to stop him, tried to protect the Joker even after 10 million people are dead.

Superman's parents were kidnapped next, where was Batman? Aqua Man unleashed his army on the surface world, where was Batman? When Superman confronted Batman about everything he had no good answer, the Dark Knight sounded like the boy scout this time around. He then warns Aqua Man that Superman is coming to stop him, why? People bash Superman all the time for being the "boy scout". Why are they bashing him now? If you had Superman's powers and all this happened to you, would you not do the same thing?
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Aquaman is in the right. He is doing what he has always done, protect fish from jerks.
 
Exar0s

Exar0s

Cassie Cage <3
Ca$hFlagg said:
Aquaman is in the right. He is doing what he has always done, protect fish from jerks.
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Protecting fish from jerks is one thing. Waging an all out war against the surface world is another. Wonder Woman didn't start that fight, she was shot in the face by one of Aquaman's soldiers. She tried to stop the conflict in a diplomatic way, just as super heroes should. Arthur got all butt hurt and raised not only a army to surround the surface world but he raised the MF'ing Kraken!
 
KiD INsAnitY

KiD INsAnitY

Z of The Leaf -Team R.A.N
I mean the side of the regime that's isn't all security and protection of others the side where they scare and hurt ppl and gain hatred from the civilians they're suppose to be securing. Btw Superman and his crew are the Regime ....Batman and his (soon to be) crew are the Insurgency.
 
Phase 3

Phase 3

Feels Good Man
Exar0s said:
I enjoyed it a lot. I always liked the Flash but it's hard to paint Superman as the bad guy here. His city was destroyed, his woman and child were killed and 10+ million people died. I'm having a hard time not hating Batman. He let the Joker go to Metropolis, destroy the city and civilians, poison Clark which caused him to kill his woman and child. Naturally Superman is going to kill the Joker, who wouldn't? Batman tried to stop him, tried to protect the Joker even after 10 million people are dead.

Superman's parents were kidnapped next, where was Batman? Aqua Man unleashed his army on the surface world, where was Batman? When Superman confronted Batman about everything he had no good answer, the Dark Knight sounded like the boy scout this time around. He then warns Aqua Man that Superman is coming to stop him, why? People bash Superman all the time for being the "boy scout". Why are they bashing him now? If you had Superman's powers and all this happened to you, would you not do the same thing?
Click to expand...
Initially it looked like Superman was creating the regime out of necessity -- he was the same old Clark with a less idealized view of the world. At first I felt that post-regime Superman would still have any shred of the character we all love deep inside him somewhere and that's what would make him sympathetic. It'd be more interesting to know that he was a man struggling to apply the same values he always had while still, in some way, maintaining them, but that's not what we're getting. He is becoming a completely different person.

When you start killing and crippling people for things like this it's a slippery slope, and don't be surprised if you see him get progressively worse to the point of being a straight up, cliche, power-crazed villain. When you can justify the Joker's death, how early will you start killing people to avoid tragedies? After their first murder? After their first violent crime? After the first time they merely speak or act out against the alleged "peacekeepers" and "heroes"? This regime is getting progressively worse and as someone who has always respected Superman, it's a genuinely disappointing evolution.

People always debate Superman's role in the world but to me, he himself once said it best in JLA:

Superman: "Humankind has to be allowed to climb to its own destiny. We can't carry them there."
and when the Flash asks why, in that case, they're necessary at all, Superman responds with "To catch them if they fall."
 
Ca$hFlagg

Ca$hFlagg

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Exar0s said:
Protecting fish from jerks is one thing. Waging an all out war against the surface world is another. Wonder Woman didn't start that fight, she was shot in the face by one of Aquaman's soldiers. She tried to stop the conflict in a diplomatic way, just as super heroes should. Arthur got all butt hurt and raised not only a army to surround the surface world but he raised the MF'ing Kraken!
Click to expand...
No no. Wonder woman got shot in the face from some day 1 rookie. Arthur would have handled that rook himself if WW wasn't looking for a reason to start some shit. Arthur isn't one to be bullied in like a 5v1 so he demonstrated the level at which he should not be fucked with.
 
Ca$hFlagg

Ca$hFlagg

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Phase 3 said:
Initially it looked like Superman was creating the regime out of necessity -- he was the same old Clark with a less idealized view of the world. At first I felt that post-regime Superman would still have any shred of the character we all love deep inside him somewhere and that's what would make him sympathetic. It'd be more interesting to know that he was a man struggling to apply the same values he always had while still, in some way, maintaining them, but that's not what we're getting. He is becoming a completely different person.

When you start killing and crippling people for things like this it's a slippery slope, and don't be surprised if you see him get progressively worse to the point of being a straight up, cliche, power-crazed villain. When you can justify the Joker's death, how early will you start killing people to avoid tragedies? After their first murder? After their first violent crime? After the first time they merely speak or act out against the alleged "peacekeepers" and "heroes"? This regime is getting progressively worse and as someone who has always respected Superman, it's a genuinely disappointing evolution.

People always debate Superman's role in the world but to me, he himself once said it best in JLA:

Superman: "Humankind has to be allowed to climb to its own destiny. We can't carry them there."
and when the Flash asks why, in that case, they're necessary at all, Superman responds with "To catch them if they fall."
Click to expand...
You're right Phase. Well put.

No one man or woman has been given the right to tell humanity how to run it's planet. If he doesn't like it he can go back to his own pla..damn.
 
KiD INsAnitY

KiD INsAnitY

Z of The Leaf -Team R.A.N
I think the real issue is WW she's the one really pushing Supes to do this it's like she is taking advantage of this situation to use Superman as her puppet to control/rule mankind like in the last issue when supes was feeling bad about what he did to Aqua she tried to make him see it as if it were fine and to not care what anyone else thinks and her not telling him about Arthur being sorry about Lois. She's the force driving it Supes prolly to caught up in his emotions to notice.
 
Exar0s

Exar0s

Cassie Cage <3
Ca$hFlagg said:
You're right Phase. Well put.

No one man or woman has been given the right to tell humanity how to run it's planet. If he doesn't like it he can go back to his own pla..damn.
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Except he can't, you know, because his planet was destroyed. I see where you are all coming from but if one man has the power to create world peace, be it through diplomatic means or fear, why shouldn't he? Why allow humans to continue destroying one another through war, violent crimes or in the jokers case, just because he f'ing wanted to.
 
Ca$hFlagg

Ca$hFlagg

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Exar0s said:
Except he can't, you know, because his planet was destroyed. I see where you are all coming from but if one man has the power to create world peace, be it through diplomatic means or fear, why shouldn't he? Why allow humans to continue destroying one another through war, violent crimes or in the jokers case, just because he f'ing wanted to.
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He shouldn't because he has not been given the permission to do so. He cannot presume to gives us what he thinks we should want. We didn't ask for that. He's a guest. A helpful guest but still a guest. He is free to stay and help as much as he likes.

The Regime is just another powerful dictator not unlike Castro or Hitler. They may have not flown around I their time, but all 3 presume to enact their very specific world view where the populous is threatened through fear of retaliation of violence.

So I guess I'm saying Superman=Hitler.
 
Ca$hFlagg

Ca$hFlagg

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KiD INsAnitY said:
I think the real issue is WW she's the one really pushing Supes to do this it's like she is taking advantage of this situation to use Superman as her puppet to control/rule mankind like in the last issue when supes was feeling bad about what he did to Aqua she tried to make him see it as if it were fine and to not care what anyone else thinks and her not telling him about Arthur being sorry about Lois. She's the force driving it Supes prolly to caught up in his emotions to notice.
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I like that you picked up on that. I'm really upset with WW. She has been the least "hero-y" of all the heroes.
 
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