General/Other - Smoke Inconsistency of Smoke Bomb

[FinalBoss_FGC]

Smoke ball is super dumb.

Slow start up makes it a bad projectile.
You have the choice to place it in front of or behind opponent...throwing in front of a running opponent almost always misses anyways.
And listen to the awesome mechanics of smoke ball midcombo:

Off of B3 it hits every time except max range then it is too slow to combo around 30% of the time, cool.
Off of b1 hit, it doesn't combo almost every time except if you use f3. F3 hits them then you do b1 at that range or if you meaty b1 after a 213 ender. Finding the actual range is next to impossible in a match so you have to commit to using meter in order to even combo from b1. Which is cool but if they block mb tele then you're like -1000 and if you hit mb smoke ball...nice high 20s combo for a meter pleb.

#fixsmokeball

 

[Scott The Scot]

I'd like it if we could just make it connect on hit - they could just speed up Smoke Bomb to fix this. Oh and B3~Smoke Bomb needs to get fixed, I hate it when it whiffs. Like, where's my reward for hitting you? lol.

I guess this is them trying to make a more balanced, nerfed version of Batgirl lol. I'm going to be trying to focus on hard knockdown as opposed to straight up vortex all the time, just to see how it goes. See if that's how you're supposed to play the character.

 

[Red Hood MKX]

Smoke bomb needs to have a slightly faster start up and teleport please.

This character sucks compared to his mk9 predecessor. We have a slow smoke bomb we have a slow teleport we dont have shake and we dont have any type of armor whats going on. the only thing that makes this chararcter worth playing is his vortex. Why else would you play smoke he doest have good enough tools in my opinion only the vortex

 

[just_2swift]

I'd like it if we could just make it connect on hit - they could just speed up Smoke Bomb to fix this. Oh and B3~Smoke Bomb needs to get fixed, I hate it when it whiffs. Like, where's my reward for hitting you? lol.

I guess this is them trying to make a more balanced, nerfed version of Batgirl lol. I'm going to be trying to focus on hard knockdown as opposed to straight up vortex all the time, just to see how it goes. See if that's how you're supposed to play the character.

That is exactly what I've been doing from the start. I believe that he is more than a vortex character.

 

[Wetdoba]

Smoke bomb needs to have a slightly faster start up and teleport please.

This character sucks compared to his mk9 predecessor. We have a slow smoke bomb we have a slow teleport we dont have shake and we dont have any type of armor whats going on. the only thing that makes this chararcter worth playing is his vortex. Why else would you play smoke he doest have good enough tools in my opinion only the vortex

Smoke has insanely good mids and neutral

 

[Scott The Scot]

That is exactly what I've been doing from the start. I believe that he is more than a vortex character.

I'm going to see what the max damage I can find into a HDK is. His oki game is so good that it could be the better option over vortex in most situations. In theory, at least.

 

[boba_buster]

Smoke has insanely good mids and neutral

There is so much wrong with this post lol

 

[RM Ree]

So we're just going to ignore the part where smoke ball is unpunishable and MB smoke bomb is + huh?

 

[Red Hood MKX]

Smoke has insanely good mids and neutral

What insanly goood mids are you talking about his f4 doesnt low crush trust me ive played alot of milenas. B2 is kinda good its good but not groundbreaking. An insanely good mid is someone like cassie 11 frame advancing mid that crushes everything even jumps.

His neutral isn't even that good slow smoke bomb slow teleport etc name me one good thing that makes his neutral that much better from the rest of the cast. Ill stay play the character hes my boy since umk3 but right now smoke needs alot of work he has no dirt only his vortex in my opinion

 

[Bomborge]

This doesn't really change anything of what you said, but b3 combos at max range. Its a little awkward spot a step ahead of max range where it doesn't combo.

 

[Scott The Scot]

So we're just going to ignore the part where smoke ball is unpunishable and MB smoke bomb is + huh?

Are you going to ignore the fact that very little jails into it EX Smoke Bomb? It's the same as Erron Blacks sand grenade and nobdy complains about that.

 

[RM Ree]

Are you going to ignore the fact that very little jails into it EX Smoke Bomb? It's the same as Erron Blacks sand grenade and nobdy complains about that.

Wh-... What are you even talking about? Very little jails into any capture type special Triborg has, that's fairly common knowledge. But smoke ball is the only special that's unpunishable, and has the option to be + on block. Also, EB's sand throw is punishable, while EX sand grenade has been adjusted to be less +, which is not the same. And apparently the only ones complaining are Smoke players, asking for a buff while disguising it as a "fix."

So yes, I'm going to ignore the uninformed post you left, Scott. In fact, it's almost like you said nothing at all.

 

[Red Hood MKX]

Dude you can jump or armor the smoke bomb the only string that jails into smoke bomb is 113 ex sb

 

[RM Ree]

Dude you can jump or armor the smoke bomb the only string that jails into smoke bomb is 113 ex sb

Uh huh. What happens when someone tries to jump out of f13 xx trident?

 

[Scott The Scot]

Wh-... What are you even talking about? Very little jails into any capture type special Triborg has, that's fairly common knowledge. But smoke ball is the only special that's unpunishable, and has the option to be + on block. Also, EB's sand throw is punishable, while EX sand grenade has been adjusted to be less +, which is not the same. And apparently the only ones complaining are Smoke players, asking for a buff while disguising it as a "fix."

So yes, I'm going to ignore the uninformed post you left, Scott. In fact, it's almost like you said nothing at all.

Alright then, I don't need to listen to your rotten attitude and tone, think what you want.

 

[MajinBerserker]

I've never had B3-Smoke Bomb not connect. B3 connects at the start of round positioning, which is pretty friggin' good for a low, meterless starter into possible vortex.
If you're trying to use B3 as a starter out of that range, honestly, it's just pushing your luck. And any slight movement in the opponent or collision with B3 that still lets B3 win the trade, yeah I'd expect Smoke Bomb to be wonky there.

B1-Smoke Bomb (regular) doesn't connect midscreen except off a meaty. Okay.
IT'S SAFE.
Would you rather it be "adjusted" to connect and be full combo punishable? Cyber Sub and Cyrax can connext their Net/Freeze off B1. UNSAFE.
If you're worried about the opponent always blocking low midscreen when you're meterless, B1-Spear. I bet you'll have some success. That's also uninterruptable by armor. And as unsafe as Sub/Cyrax's B1-special, meterless. So Smoke is in the club.

I know you can position the Smoke Bomb, like Tremor's Rocks, but I've honestly never had to do that with Smoke in the week+ I've been learning him.
And running over/through some projectiles? C'mon, that's been in the game.

 

[Smoke_Vrbada]

So we're just going to ignore the part where smoke ball is unpunishable and MB smoke bomb is + huh?

There are caps in 100% of his combos.. You can punish the hell out of that

 

[Prinz]

Honestly, I don't understand why this move was even given to Smoke since he has his spear. Anyway, it needs a bigger hitbox and to be low or have faster start-up.

 

[MajinBerserker]

I'm not trying to make enemies here.

If you disagree with me, that's fine. But I'd just like to point out the POSITIVES of what Smoke currently has.

And do we not remember our meterless vortex in the corner?

 

[Scott The Scot]

B1-Smoke Bomb (regular) doesn't connect midscreen except off a meaty. Okay.
IT'S SAFE.

I'd say "semi-safe". There's a gap. People I play with blow it up all the time so safe isn't exactly what I'd use to describe it.

 

[MajinBerserker]

I'd say "semi-safe". There's a gap. People I play with blow it up all the time so safe isn't exactly what I'd use to describe it.

I understand the gap, which yields risk.
I haven't been blown up- yet.
When I have constant matches (or see major tourney footage) where his gaps are being armored left and right, believe me, I'll show concern.
(Vids or it didn't happen, ya know?)

Also, everyone realizes that without a) a gap in B1-Smoke Bomb, and b) needing meter for midscreen B1-SB to connect, Smoke would have a SAFE meterless vortex midscreen (!!) at only -6? Be lucky Smoke has it in the corner.
IDC how much other silliness is in the game. In regards to Smoke, just think about that.

I'm not trying to be hostile with anyone here. Just want to point some things out.

 

[Scott The Scot]

I understand the gap, which yields risk.
I haven't been blown up- yet.
When I have constant matches (or see major tourney footage) where his gaps are being armored left and right, believe me, I'll show concern.
(Vids or it didn't happen, ya know?)

Also, everyone realizes that without a) a gap in B1-Smoke Bomb, and b) needing meter for midscreen B1-SB to connect, Smoke would have a SAFE meterless vortex midscreen (!!) at only -6? Be lucky Smoke has it in the corner.
IDC how much other silliness is in the game. In regards to Smoke, just think about that.

I'm not trying to be hostile with anyone here. Just want to point some things out.

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be a gap and I know that a fully safe meterless votex would be silly.

I'm just saying that people will start blowing it up since Smoke has only been out for a week and a half. It took people a while before they started blowing up SonicFox using EB's 50/50's into EX Sand Grenade grenade but they eventually started doing it. There hasn't been pretty much any major tourney before for people to blow up the gap to be fair lol.

I still think Smoke is a crazy good, top 10 character. I'm just saying he's not all rainbows and butterfiles like everybody seems to think so.

 

[MajinBerserker]

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be a gap and I know that a fully safe meterless votex would be silly.

I'm just saying that people will start blowing it up since Smoke has only been out for a week and a half. It took people a while before they started blowing up SonicFox using EB's 50/50's into EX Sand Grenade grenade but they eventually started doing it. There hasn't been pretty much any major tourney before for people to blow up the gap to be fair lol.

I still think Smoke is a crazy good, top 10 character. I'm just saying he's not all rainbows and butterfiles like everybody seems to think so.

I get ya man. And maybe I'm too quick to defend his positives. Believe me, I won't be loving the matches where I'm having gaps armored all the time.

Instead of threads pointing out nothing but "wrongs," what about threads where solutions, or alt strategies, are proposed? Ex: B1-Smoke Bomb has a gap. Does staggering his safe B1 alone, to test opponent, provide better outcome?
Your thread about 213 knockdown options when Smoke is out of meter is also a good example.

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

I've never had B3-Smoke Bomb not connect.

Thats because people aren't armoring through yet, set csz on ex slide reversal and do the vortex. the computer does it like clockwork but eventually good players will do it because in the restand vortex its super obvious when the smoke bomb is coming, well eventually have to do b1 24/b3d4u3 everynow and then to gain the respect or b3/b1 smoke towards etc

 

[FinalBoss_FGC]

I've never had B3-Smoke Bomb not connect. B3 connects at the start of round positioning, which is pretty friggin' good for a low, meterless starter into possible vortex.
If you're trying to use B3 as a starter out of that range, honestly, it's just pushing your luck. And any slight movement in the opponent or collision with B3 that still lets B3 win the trade, yeah I'd expect Smoke Bomb to be wonky there.

B1-Smoke Bomb (regular) doesn't connect midscreen except off a meaty. Okay.
IT'S SAFE.
Would you rather it be "adjusted" to connect and be full combo punishable? Cyber Sub and Cyrax can connext their Net/Freeze off B1. UNSAFE.
If you're worried about the opponent always blocking low midscreen when you're meterless, B1-Spear. I bet you'll have some success. That's also uninterruptable by armor. And as unsafe as Sub/Cyrax's B1-special, meterless. So Smoke is in the club.

I know you can position the Smoke Bomb, like Tremor's Rocks, but I've honestly never had to do that with Smoke in the week+ I've been learning him.
And running over/through some projectiles? C'mon, that's been in the game.

Smoke bomb and net/freeze are not the same. I compare his spear with those more. And Smoke bomb hits mid, I expect it to be semi safe since you can armor it on block 100% of the time. If it was a low and safe then that'd be a problem, but the slow start up is worth it being safe.

And the difference is, Cyrax and Sektor get plenty of meterless damage and Cyrax also has a vortex.

I think it's okay for Cyrax to have a slow projectile that is safe