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Question - Grandmaster I'm having trouble figuring out what to do in neutral...

SparkedSynapse

Disciple of Brady
Qwark is actually correct on everything. The reason I posted the things I did is out of consideration for your comfort level. Learn Sub-Zero's general game first, but as soon as you can, you should be practicing the corrections that Qwark made. The suggestions I had will NOT hold up at a high level as Sub-Zero, no way in HELL - but they're easier to pull off if you're more concerned with just "getting" Sub-Zero.

Thank you, Qwark.
 

A2EZ

Noob
If you don't know the appropriate combos you are wasting your time with this character. The entire logic behind Subzero's damage is that he corners you with one punish from anywhere on the screen.

Is this what I should do?

Air frozen anywhere -> nj 1, 123 slide
ground frozen anywhere ->242, run, f42 slide (or grab if back is in corner)

Air frozen in corner -> ?
ground frozen in corner -> 242, nj 1, f12 clone


Overhead anywhere -> b2, run, b12 slide
Low hit anywhere ->b33 ex iceball, 242, run, f42 slide

Overhead in corner ->b2, b12 iceball, nj 1, f12 clone
Low in corner -> b33 iceball, 242, nj 1, f12 clone

General punish ->b12 iceball, j1, 242 run f42 slide

(some of these are simplified from the possible optimal combos because I don't have the game to practice the specific timings)
 
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In all seriousness I strongly believe sub zero is in the top discussion

I'm sure all your questions will be answered when djt , Woundcowboy tom brady, Detroitballin, smar show him off in tourney

Go watch footage of Detroit last night

Sub zero is good there is absolutely no doubt

Where is the footage hut? Any YouTube link?
 
B12 Freeze, 242 Run, 123 Slide.
You'll get one extra hit if you do a Jump-In Punch before the 242 Run but I didn't feel the need to demonstrate it.
I don't know the control scheme for PS4 nor Subs moves good enough to where I can know which is which. It's a cool combo. Thanks.
 

SparkedSynapse

Disciple of Brady
I don't know the control scheme for PS4 nor Subs moves good enough to where I can know which is which. It's a cool combo. Thanks.
The reason we use 1234 notation on TYM is exactly so people from any console can know what buttons to press without needing to see the specific inputs. That's because Inputs are in the same face button positions across both platforms.

Here's the XB1 notation;

Back, X, Y, IceBall (Down,Forward,Y), Y,B,Y, Run (Forward,Forward,Block), X,Y,A, Slide (Back, Forward, B)

1 = X (Square)
2 = Y (Triangle)
3 = A (X)
4 = B (Circle)

When you memorize those, life will get a lot easier around here ^_^
 
The reason we use 1234 notation on TYM is exactly so people from any console can know what buttons to press without needing to see the specific inputs. That's because Inputs are in the same face button positions across both platforms.

Here's the XB1 notation;

Back, X, Y, IceBall (Down,Forward,Y), Y,B,Y, Run (Forward,Forward,Block), X,Y,A, Slide (Back, Forward, B)

1 = X (Square)
2 = Y (Triangle)
3 = A (X)
4 = B (Circle)

When you memorize those, life will get a lot easier around here ^_^

Thank you, but I am extemely fluent with the language of notations. Learned them back during Injustice era.

I just never used subzero until today, so I didn't know which moves were what just by looking at your video and the ps4 tagged moves on the upper left.

But thanks for that nonetheless, it's the thought that counts :)
 
After many matches today, I've learned, that until I get better with understanding "how to trap" and "how to bait" with the ice ball/clone, I've been heavily relying on his combos, slide kick (intelligently) and pokes more than the ice ball and clone (I rarely pop them) which is good for now, early days, so I want to strengthen my combo and poke game.

So far, this approach seems to work for me in neutral standoffs. Most people I come up against are either my level of experience or less. Therefore, they're not out poking me or out comboing me. Since we are at same level experiences, I'm getting good neutral game knowledge and advancing my attrition.

Now, when I end up playing those 158/40 record players, well, those are @Tom Brady reflexes type players. I'm gonna get my ass handed to me regardless with those guys. So I just focus on learning something when facing those types.

Tldr:
Start getting more in tune with your combos and pokes. Get intimate with them and scenarios/patterns that benefit them, and eventually, you will start seeing openings or ideas will come up to where you will be able to apply your clone/ice ball more effectively.
 

SonicBoomBrad

Best Doomsday in the world
I understand it's going to come to that, but I was speaking more in a day one sense to help out a newer player. If you have the lead you can very much sit behind clone in a lot of match ups I've found, as well placed EX fireballs can land you a lot of damage. It's unfortunate though because Sub is turning out to be a lot more unsafe than I'd like in a character. His corner pressure and clone traps are what's going to save him in the long run, I agree. That and learning what match ups unbreakable is really good in. But I'm pretty sure he'll get nerfed long because that even becomes an issue due to everyone complaining.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I understand it's going to come to that, but I was speaking more in a day one sense to help out a newer player. If you have the lead you can very much sit behind clone in a lot of match ups I've found, as well placed EX fireballs can land you a lot of damage. It's unfortunate though because Sub is turning out to be a lot more unsafe than I'd like in a character. His corner pressure and clone traps are what's going to save him in the long run, I agree. That and learning what match ups unbreakable is really good in. But I'm pretty sure he'll get nerfed long because that even becomes an issue due to everyone complaining.
Sitting behind a clone means you willingly give up your ability to corner them then rely on yolo ex iceballs to get damage which you could've gotten by playing your clone correctly.
 

SonicBoomBrad

Best Doomsday in the world
Sitting behind a clone means you willingly give up your ability to corner them then rely on yolo ex iceballs to get damage which you could've gotten by playing your clone correctly.
I wasn't implying you throw a clone out and sit there, I was implying that you constantly have a clone out in neutral to scare your opponent back, and you establish zoning with iceballs to make them afraid to approach, it is very easy to walk players into the corner once you've established fear of being frozen. "Well placed iceballs" didn't mean random EX iceballs. It meant countering a projectile with EX iceball, or reacting to a jump with EX iceball. Or if you're really on point, whiff punishing a normal. Sub's pressure and neutral is all about establishing the fear of being frozen due to his lack of good, safe normals. Sub is 100% about playing completely safe and letting your opponent make mistakes by taking risks. Because soon his 50/50s will get punished every time whether there is a clone or not, and that is going to cause a lot of problems.

As a side note, you can very easily punish high projectiles and some mid projectiles on reaction with slide. Very useful against characters like kung jin who can't really zone Sub at all. You scare him into thinking you're going to clone and establish your zoning game, and then just walk back and forth in neutral to bait a fireball, and slide.

I totally forgot I have to be extremely detailed when I post on this site or people are just going to nit pick me to death.