delbuster
hungry
Ronin got substantial buffs. Looking through his options I think he is top tier. but don't mind me.
He has a really poor low starter in b3 so I would advise against using it, but he has a lot of options in neutral and in pressure i think.
I am pretty new to the character, so I'd like to hear thoughts from more seasoned players. I've seen other Ronins on streams that don't seem to be optimizing situations so we can start with that.
I have a few vids to share...
For those new to Ronin, he has a move (db1) that drops the blade, and then he can do an attack out of it (db1) or recall it with no hitbox (df1) which is faster.
Normally, the attack does not launch high enough for a followup without EXing it. However, certain spacings allow it to only hit once or twice in a way that launches them. Off most strings it is very finicky, but the hitreaction from a close enough b21 will cause it midscreen to give Ronin higher damage output off of it.
Otherwise, Ronin will need meter to do bigger damage.
Thankfully, he has the 21 restand to buff his combos (restanding makes gravity scale less hard) and also to give him combo ender options for pressure. Restanding into df3 piercing spark gives decent advantage (doesn't jail though), restanding into db1 to toss the blade allows for interesting mixups and pressure starting, and he can always just end with bf2 flurry punch.
Some f1 combos in there too.
In the corner especially, Ronin will need meter to make most things hurt outside of the b112 which launches into combos.
I'm missing a basic combo vid with midscreen things like b112 21 bf2.
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Ronin's pressure game is also quite good and I think it makes up for his meterless combos. The main reason is the speed and range of some of his options; he can poke with mids and overheads at a range that most characters cannot fight back, and the frame data helps out. His b1, b2, and 2 are 11-13 frames, and lead to frame advantage of around -1 to +3 on certain things. Takeda will have to beware of armor and backdashes but the threats are there.
While there was an old thread in July about the frame data on blade calls/toss cancels on strings, I am still not sure how accurate some things are.
b21 2+4 db1 with blade seems to be around +3 which is solid.
f1 2+4 first hit db1 with blade seems to be around -1.
33 db1 with blade around 0, but should probably use b21 instead.
f1 2+4 first hit df1 without blade LOOKS to be around +1, I am not too sure. I can trade Takeda's d1 (8f) with Cassie's reversal flip kick (7f) after she blocks but it might be some sort of hitbox thing.
33 df1 without blade is around +2, I actually beat Cassie's flip kick with d1 after block.
(no access to b21 without blade).
Also, it seems like the window to do the db1 blade attack after throwing down the blade is earlier than the window to do normal attacks, so you can frame trap more easily with that. However, the blade attack is like -9ish on block usually, so it is risky.
Finally, his EX df3 projectile is a mid and +6 on block, which is a pretty sweet tool, though Ronin is very meter hungry. Hopefully, Takeda's pressure will gain a lot of meter to let him play how he wants.
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Takeda's armor options are definitely better in this version. While Shirai Ryu may get more damage off of his, Ronin's are much more reliable b/c they are fast. exDB1 with blade is pretty big, and exDB1 without blade actually has armor for a short amount of time, so if you want your blade back you probably can get it back reliably with a meter, but it comes with the risk of getting punished as the armor is very short.
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Let me know what you think. Ronin general thread is a little bit inactive and I feel like new Ronin players are starting much further back than they should.
He has a really poor low starter in b3 so I would advise against using it, but he has a lot of options in neutral and in pressure i think.
I am pretty new to the character, so I'd like to hear thoughts from more seasoned players. I've seen other Ronins on streams that don't seem to be optimizing situations so we can start with that.
I have a few vids to share...
For those new to Ronin, he has a move (db1) that drops the blade, and then he can do an attack out of it (db1) or recall it with no hitbox (df1) which is faster.
Normally, the attack does not launch high enough for a followup without EXing it. However, certain spacings allow it to only hit once or twice in a way that launches them. Off most strings it is very finicky, but the hitreaction from a close enough b21 will cause it midscreen to give Ronin higher damage output off of it.
Otherwise, Ronin will need meter to do bigger damage.
Thankfully, he has the 21 restand to buff his combos (restanding makes gravity scale less hard) and also to give him combo ender options for pressure. Restanding into df3 piercing spark gives decent advantage (doesn't jail though), restanding into db1 to toss the blade allows for interesting mixups and pressure starting, and he can always just end with bf2 flurry punch.
Some f1 combos in there too.
In the corner especially, Ronin will need meter to make most things hurt outside of the b112 which launches into combos.
I'm missing a basic combo vid with midscreen things like b112 21 bf2.
-
Ronin's pressure game is also quite good and I think it makes up for his meterless combos. The main reason is the speed and range of some of his options; he can poke with mids and overheads at a range that most characters cannot fight back, and the frame data helps out. His b1, b2, and 2 are 11-13 frames, and lead to frame advantage of around -1 to +3 on certain things. Takeda will have to beware of armor and backdashes but the threats are there.
While there was an old thread in July about the frame data on blade calls/toss cancels on strings, I am still not sure how accurate some things are.
b21 2+4 db1 with blade seems to be around +3 which is solid.
f1 2+4 first hit db1 with blade seems to be around -1.
33 db1 with blade around 0, but should probably use b21 instead.
f1 2+4 first hit df1 without blade LOOKS to be around +1, I am not too sure. I can trade Takeda's d1 (8f) with Cassie's reversal flip kick (7f) after she blocks but it might be some sort of hitbox thing.
33 df1 without blade is around +2, I actually beat Cassie's flip kick with d1 after block.
(no access to b21 without blade).
Also, it seems like the window to do the db1 blade attack after throwing down the blade is earlier than the window to do normal attacks, so you can frame trap more easily with that. However, the blade attack is like -9ish on block usually, so it is risky.
Finally, his EX df3 projectile is a mid and +6 on block, which is a pretty sweet tool, though Ronin is very meter hungry. Hopefully, Takeda's pressure will gain a lot of meter to let him play how he wants.
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Takeda's armor options are definitely better in this version. While Shirai Ryu may get more damage off of his, Ronin's are much more reliable b/c they are fast. exDB1 with blade is pretty big, and exDB1 without blade actually has armor for a short amount of time, so if you want your blade back you probably can get it back reliably with a meter, but it comes with the risk of getting punished as the armor is very short.
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Let me know what you think. Ronin general thread is a little bit inactive and I feel like new Ronin players are starting much further back than they should.
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) that you can get out of his "infinite" by just getting hit with no consequences what so ever) and I would like to check this information.