I think Armor breaks actually made breakaway and the metagame slightly more difficult to deal with (hear me out)

[OPS_soldier]

So yesterday on stream I was practicing armor break combos and I came to the realization: Armor break combos actually made the game slightly worse. Now hear me out.

Back before armor breaks, a little trick I used to do playing Kitana was breakaway RIGHT after my opponent broke away at a certain time to full combo punish me. My idea behind keeping both defensive meter was, "hey! Worse comes to worse, I can TRADE my defensive meter for his defensive meter and we will both play footsies with true oki!" And my opponent would have to guess if he or she wanted to do that or not.

Now, against certain characters, like Kabal, and Shao Khan, I'm not even given the option to do this. There were characters like Subzero and Kollector where I could not do it before either, but now the list has been added to. Im basically forced to do armor break combos and lower my damage instead of trading defensive meter. This also, in the process, causes people to never break, and breakway to forever be in the game until they break when they see a combo they can punish. And then you cant punish them back LOL. It wasn't until yesterday I realized armor breaks actually made system even HARDER to deal with breakaways, and made getting rid of them even more difficult.

Now I'm not saying I don't like the game; I'm just pointing out that things have gotten a little more difficult or at the least complex due to armor breaks, where some characters have more guaranteed punishes and others do not due to the breakaway system.

Thoughts?

 

[Kiss the Missile]

Soul Eater doesn't even have an armor breaker lmao. Its a whole ass game mechanic my main doesn't get to use. NRS' idea of design really makes me wish a new company would take over MK

 

[OPS_soldier]

Soul Eater doesn't even have an armor breaker lmao. Its a whole ass game mechanic my main doesn't get to use. NRS' idea of design really makes me wish a new company would take over MK

An easy solution would be to make breakaway prevent button inputs until the comboer has fully recovered I think. But thats just my opinion on breakways. NRS might have a different design in mind, idk.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Kitana got the best armor break in the game. DONT RUIN IT FOR US FOOL!!!!!!

 

[OPS_soldier]

Kitana got the best armor break in the game. DONT RUIN IT FOR US FOOL!!!!!!

Lol I'm just saying I'd rather trade bars than do less damage throughout the entire match. Objectively you do less damage overall to prevent breakaway instead of trading bars between each other. I also agree with you that she has the one of the best armor breakers in the game.

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

Characters with a back button normal armor break that requires a micro dash to connect to a breakaway is fucking stupid.
The opponent already has adv on when to initiate breakaway, so timing it for Kanos or Noob's is essentially a hard read.

Meanwhile kitana Kollector Kabal Shao etc it's easy af

 

[scarsunseen]

Characters with a back button normal armor break that requires a micro dash to connect to a breakaway is fucking stupid.
The opponent already has adv on when to initiate breakaway, so timing it for Kanos or Noob's is essentially a hard read.

Meanwhile kitana Kollector Kabal Shao etc it's easy af

oh god, the input for Ancestral Gift Nightwolf's armor break is insanely hard. microdashing into a DBF command grab input.

 

[Espio]

I don't think this complaint is really valid if I'm reading this and correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like your issue is not being able to punish people by breaking away at certain points and nobody should be full combo punished for opening you up/comboing you anyway in my opinion so if it discourages people from doing that then NRS did a good job.

In retrospect, a lot of people claim the game is too simple or whatever so if the introduction of armor breaks made it more complicated then that's a good thing.

Also people keep talking about armor breaks not being in every variation....do you want Marauder Baraka to have a high damage armor breaker? Like.....you can criticize a lot of things about NRS but one size fits all should not be applied to balancing everything.

 

[OPS_soldier]

I don't think this complaint is really valid if I'm reading this and correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like your issue is not being able to punish people by breaking away at certain points and nobody should be full combo punished for opening you up/comboing you anyway in my opinion so if it discourages people from doing that then NRS did a good job.

Also people keep talking about armor breaks not being in every variation....do you want Marauder Baraka to have a high damage armor breaker? Like.....you can criticize a lot of things about NRS but one size fits all should not be applied to balancing everything.

That Is incorrect. Maybe I didn't communicate properly. The OPPOSITE is happening. Let me use FF Kitana as an example since i play her.

What I used to do was, use my breakaway meter after someone breaking away from gutted.any players will just break away if they read you inputting gutted or fan lift and before, I would break from their break. Now, I can't because they'll use THEIR armor breaker. And some characters armor breakers are just like standing combos, where if you break youll get armor broken and break away is useless. Which leads to this situation where gutted may never be used all game if you opponent only waits for gutted, and you get less damage overall because you're using your armor breaker to not get punished. Gutted is just one example though. You can use this example for fan lift after a d3 anti air into 12 etc etc.

Again im using Kitana as an example specifically because I play her, but I'm pretty sure other characters suffer from the similar problems.

 

[Espio]

That Is incorrect. Maybe I didn't communicate properly. The OPPOSITE is happening. Let me use Kitana since i play her.

What I used to do was, use my breakaway meter after someone breaking away from gutted.any players will just break away if they read you inputting gutted or fan lift and before, I would break from their break. Now, I can't because they'll use THEIR armor breaker. And some characters armor breakers are just like standing combos, where if you break youll get armor broken and break away is useless. Which leads to this situation where gutted may never be used all game if you opponent only waits for gutted, and you get less damage overall because you're using your armor breaker to not get punished. Gutted is just one example though. You can use this example for fan lift after a d3 anti air into 12 etc etc.

Again im using Kitana as an example specifically because I play her, but I'm pretty sure other characters suffer from the similar problems.

It sounds like you're doing more thinking which I still don't think is a bad thing given the general complaints. If you're not willing to do your optimal pathways that also doesn't make sense because unless you're really predictable your opponent isn't going to read you right every single time.

 

[OPS_soldier]

It sounds like you're doing more thinking which I still don't think is a bad thing given the general complaints. If you're not willing to do your optimal pathways that also doesn't make sense because unless you're really predictable your opponent isn't going to read you right every single time.

I agree. It's not that simple. And people wont read you every time. But it actually makes the game more difficult and combo punish paths a little too complex in my opinion.

 

[Savage8-8]

I think it actually gives the game more depth and now i have a way to punish breakaway. I don't agree that it makes the game worse. I think the main issue is breakaway. After living with this mechanic for a while, i think that the person who uses it should not be able to punish the aggressor. The person who breaks away should be on the ground longer with a fixed get up time (so no delay wakeup).

Outside of that i think that the armor breaks need to be looked at on a character level since they have made them so personal. I do believe that some characters don't need strong ones.

 

[HeavyNorse]

Though I didn't mind breakaway at first, I do understand that NRS has implemented some of these mechanics, breakaway amongst them, in a rather bad way. And their solution to it was implemented poorly as well.

It's like they tried to mimic Killer Instinct's combo breaker and counter breaker, but tried to make their own spin on it... and kinda failed to do so.

I don't have high hopes of NRS making the change to fix this in MK11, but hopefully they have learned something for the future games. That's the thing when trying new mechanics in a game, you can't know whether or not it will work until after the game is out and people play it.

 

[OPS_soldier]

Though I didn't mind breakaway at first, I do understand that NRS has implemented some of these mechanics, breakaway amongst them, in a rather bad way. And their solution to it was implemented poorly as well.

It's like they tried to mimic Killer Instinct's combo breaker and counter breaker, but tried to make their own spin on it... and kinda failed to do so.

I don't have high hopes of NRS making the change to fix this in MK11, but hopefully they have learned something for the future games. That's the thing when trying new mechanics in a game, you can't know whether or not it will work until after the game is out and people play it.

Breakaway is fundamentally a good mechanic, if it was used as intended- at the beginning of a juggle, as seen by the ai in training mode. I can only guess that that was the intention and not to punish people using special moves in their combos, as you cannot teach the ai to break later in your combo and actually properly lab breakaways, either.

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

oh god, the input for Ancestral Gift Nightwolf's armor break is insanely hard. microdashing into a DBF command grab input.

And even then it's a very tightly timed hard read that can easily be punished by the player being punished. They should all be simple special moves

 

[Kiss the Missile]

Also people keep talking about armor breaks not being in every variation....do you want Marauder Baraka to have a high damage armor breaker? Like.....you can criticize a lot of things about NRS but one size fits all should not be applied to balancing everything.

Locking a character out of an entire mechanic is stupid as fuck any way you look at it. I would love if Marauder had an armor break. Big damage combos are hella hype.

 

[Espio]

Locking a character out of an entire mechanic is stupid as fuck any way you look at it. I would love if Marauder had an armor break. Big damage combos are hella hype.

But it's not stupid. Not liking something isn't the same as it being dumb. Marauder doesn't need it. Every variation doesn't have the same tools for a reason. Characters like Jade have an armor break in every variation because she has less combo opportunities. Balance is understanding that everyone doesn't need the exact same application of a core mechanic. NRS might be guilty of some things but these were actually thought out whether we like them or not is different.

 

[kevkopdx]

But it's not stupid. Not liking something isn't the same as it being dumb. Marauder doesn't need it. Every variation doesn't have the same tools for a reason. Characters like Jade have an armor break in every variation because she has less combo opportunities. Balance is understanding that everyone doesn't need the exact same application of a core mechanic. NRS might be guilty of some things but these were actually thought out whether we like them or not is different.

By that logic, Kitana Fearless should have one, how do you argue the balance in that?

 

[Kiss the Missile]

But it's not stupid. Not liking something isn't the same as it being dumb. Marauder doesn't need it. Every variation doesn't have the same tools for a reason. Characters like Jade have an armor break in every variation because she has less combo opportunities. Balance is understanding that everyone doesn't need the exact same application of a core mechanic. NRS might be guilty of some things but these were actually thought out whether we like them or not is different.

Instead of balancing the characters around the mechanic they just pick and choose who gets to even use it. Thats lazy af. This isn't just a tool, its a universal mechanic that some characters got fucked out of. You're saying its outrageous for Baraka to break armor, but Scorpion can? Joker's big combo variation gets a relaunching armor break, but Shang Tsung's Soul Eater, who has to spend all his offensive meter to even get 35%, is left out completely. This shit was not thought through.

 

[Espio]

Instead of balancing the characters around the mechanic they just pick and choose who gets to even use it. Thats lazy af. This isn't just a tool, its a universal mechanic that some characters got fucked out of. You're saying its outrageous for Baraka to break armor, but Scorpion can? Joker's big combo variation gets a relaunching armor break, but Shang Tsung's Soul Eater, who has to spend all his offensive meter to even get 35%, is left out completely. This shit was not thought through.

Baraka can break armor just not in Marauder, he can do it in Berzerker. I actually didn't say it was outrageous, I said he didn't need it in Marauder because he doesn't. I don't need anyone to agree with me but I doubt many people who play the game competitively would be clamoring for Baraka to have an armor breaker in Marauder, not even Baraka players are asking for it cause that's not a good idea. Scorpion's armor breaker isn't even that good....?

You're welcome to think it's lazy and stupid all you want, that is your right after all. I think it's fine. Even if it was universal in every variation or base someone would still not be happy with it and some characters would be better armor breaks than others, I dunno what you want me to tell you.

Everyone didn't equally benefit from a mechanic? Sounds like typical fighting game shit to me.

By that logic, Kitana Fearless should have one, how do you argue the balance in that?

How does that have anything to do with what I said or serve as any sort of counter argument lol.

Fearless seems to be highly thought of by high level players at the moment and damage seems fine also so......

 

[kevkopdx]

Baraka can break armor just not in Marauder, he can do it in Berzerker. I actually didn't say it was outrageous, I said he didn't need it in Marauder because he doesn't. I don't need anyone to agree with me but I doubt many people who play the game competitively would be clamoring for Baraka to have an armor breaker in Marauder, not even Baraka players are asking for it cause that's not a good idea. Scorpion's armor breaker isn't even that good....?

You're welcome to think it's lazy and stupid all you want, that is your right after all. I think it's fine. Even if it was universal in every variation or base someone would still not be happy with it and some characters would be better armor breaks than others, I dunno what you want me to tell you.

Everyone didn't equally benefit from a mechanic? Sounds like typical fighting game shit to me.





How does that have anything to do with what I said or serve as any sort of counter argument lol.

Fearless seems to be highly thought of by high level players at the moment and damage seems fine also so......

Fearless only gets combo damage out of b14 otherwise it’s just death by a million cuts..., it makes no sense that her other variations get it just because they have the Ass move..., the mechanic just doesn’t seem like it’s balanced

 

[OPS_soldier]

I honestly don't think armor breaks were the solution. Rebalancing breakaway in general would have been a better idea. Idk. It's a little weird to me that I have to play around my combo system. Not hating on the game, just wondering why characters and variatons like Fearless that have literally one combo path outside of the corner have to deal with breakaway and then characters like Upgraded Jaqui that has mostly grounded damage don't. Just seems odd to me. Still like the game though. Just dosent seem like breakaway was entirely thought through. Maybe breakaway would have been better just being able to break out of multiple hits with a even longer cool down where you also couldn't get up until the person who combed you recovered completely.

Again, still like the game. Breakaway at the least is unique, and I've since been convinced that it's at least better than the breaker system.

 

[Javoo On Fire]

Which varation of shao kahn are you talking about? U know I can break away immediately after shoulder right and if he didnt read that and do downward shoulder he doesnt get jack shit

 

[OPS_soldier]

Which varation of shao kahn are you talking about? U know I can break away immediately after shoulder right and if he didnt read that and do downward shoulder he doesnt get jack shit

Realm Destroyer? I think.

 

[Javoo On Fire]

Realm Destroyer? I think.

Ehh dont like that varation, most kahns play risen emporer