I challenge Raiden

[Pig Of The Hut]

Im tired of seeing this character mentioned in top 5 personally ive only played two Raidens that I consider good showings (B wizz, and FOREVER KING)

Those 2 players are totally solid and tops however i think raiden isnt near as good as you guys think unless theres something i just havent seen yet

I challenge every raiden in the book to ft10 - I desperately want someone to show me or explain to me why he's always being mentioned as a top 5 character yet we never EVER see raidens in tourneys or anywhere. Why is he so good?


Please dont mention JOP's raiden at evo because his raiden is light years behind B Wizz and forever king

 

[Sultani]

Uh.. Justin Wong won the canada cup with Raiden.

He's not as good as he used to be due to the increased recovery nerf on his teleport.

I used to think he was imbalanced and stupid too, but my brother plays him almost exclusively, and after a huge amount of discussion and testing of certain things such as frames and option after block string / teleport punishes etc etc, I ended up writing a pretty extensive summary about raiden.

It was in an old Email, so if I can find it I'll copy it here.

But, generally people that complain about certain characters are just bad. Just sayin though, Raiden just won a fairly large tournament.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

You play CSZ, ofcourse you're gonna say that

If he had a comeback factor he'd be an insane character. Takes alot of thought to play him properly IMO

NIVEK and Maxter are both good with him too.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Uh.. Justin Wong won the canada cup with Raiden.

He's not as good as he used to be due to the increased recovery nerf on his teleport.

I used to think he was imbalanced and stupid too, but my brother plays him almost exclusively, and after a huge amount of discussion and testing of certain things such as frames and option after block string / teleport punishes etc etc, I ended up writing a pretty extensive summary about raiden.

It was in an old Email, so if I can find it I'll copy it here.

But, generally people that complain about certain characters are just bad. Just sayin though, Raiden just won a fairly large tournament.

Hmm JWOW (JWong) won a tourney w 30 people at it (Canada Cup) thats a local turnout at some big cities.

I look forward to playing him one day hopefully at Final Round

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

You play CSZ, ofcourse you're gonna say that

If he had a comeback factor he'd be an insane character. Takes alot of thought to play him properly IMO

NIVEK and Maxter are both good with him too.

Im talking w any character such as mil, rep, kenshi, sonya, csz, cage, lao......

but yea i think CSZ gives raiden hell

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

All of them characters fuck him up too really. Cept maybe Mileena.

 

[Flagg]

Yeah I do think Raiden match goes in CSZ favour, but I agree that he is quite over-rated.

That or most people that play him, dont know how to play him. I mean the average flowchart Raiden does teleport and then sweep, combo, throw or torpedo. Once all of that is stopped, the Raiden player doesn't know what to do.

I like to think there is much more to Raiden then this. I think most the characters are still mysteries waiting to be fully explored, but Raiden is a bit like Derp Zero. You just have to be prepared for a very boring, lame, yet beatable match.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

All of them characters fuck him up too really. Cept maybe Mileena.

yea thats my point You cant have a character listed in top5 with 7-8 bad MUs

yea mileena is questionable...she is just a weird character all together

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

I play him a bit using Usedforglues way of thinking, only use the teleport to counter or to run away, if you teleport to attack you're just putting yourself in danger. Try it, it makes him next to impossible to hurt, but also difficult for him to attack you.

Ever played against a Raiden that doesnt teleport? Its confusing

Those characters mess him up on paper though. There may be strategies that can turn the tables. Similar to how it was thought that Kitana owns Cage, but play it a certain way and Cage will slap her around.

 

[Flagg]

Im no pro or expert by any means, but if I was to start using him, i'd be inclined to not use his teleport so much. Like Foxy said, I think this strategy would throw off a lot of players who expert the flow chart, off, and then when you do throw in the odd teleport, that's when you can start putting the fear into players.

I once heard from a JC player that all Cage is about is frame traps, nothing else. Forget combos, you should just be concerned with frame trapping. I don't play Cage, but this just seems to make the character very one dimensional, and it's that mindset that people seem to apply with Raiden which is:

Teleport, attack, rinse, repeat (even if I get punished like Hell).

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Raiden forces just about everyone to play a game based around Raiden. The fact that f0xy even mentioned a Raiden not teleporting being weird should be enough. He is a total mind game, because he can escape and counter just about anything.
Problem, is that his best tool is also a huge weakness. People also don't use the f2,4 string enough after a naked teleport to say safe and continue different types of pressure, they'd rather do the b3,2,1 or 3,3,4.

I understand your skepticism. Most people just use a very basic version of Raiden. He has gotten the "cheap, noobish, lack of skill" tag, when in fact, to play him takes good reads and good set ups. I don't understand why YOU don't' play him Pig. If anyone is used to setting people up in odd and imaginative ways, that'd be you.

 

[TomlulsBrady]

I agree with pig, I play with raiden, and hes still good but hes no were like he was on day 1. I feel like that last tele nerf just hurt him more that people think. I honestly cant see a raiden winning a really strong major with all the known top players there, but I think like Foxy was kinda pointing too he needs to played a certain way to be effective.

Please dont mention JOP's raiden at evo because his raiden is light years behind B Wizz and forever king

why you so salty about JOP for lol? Forever king maybe, but he has never been to a major, its kinda ridiculous to say his raiden is better then a top 3 at evo raiden, and B Wizz? he was at the same tourny as JOP and I didn't see his raiden evo's top 3 but I saw JOPs.....stay free pig!

 

[Big Pampering]

I agree with pig, I play with raiden, and hes still good but hes no were like he was on day 1. I feel like that last tele nerf just hurt him more that people think. I honestly cant see a raiden winning a really strong major with all the known top players there, but I think like Foxy was kinda pointing too he needs to played a certain way to be effective.




why you so salty about JOP for lol? Forever king maybe, but he has never been to a major, its kinda ridiculous to say his raiden is better then a top 3 at evo raiden, and B Wizz? he was at the same tourny as JOP and I didn't see his raiden evo's top 3 but I saw JOPs.....stay free pig!

I really think Jop had just as much right to be evo champ as reo and PL, that guy was mad good

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I really think Jop had just as much right to be evo champ as reo and PL, that guy was mad good

jop does not matter to MK community at all

he complains more than any human ever

 

[Big Pampering]

jop does not matter to MK community at all

he complains more than any human ever

but still, he is a good player, cant deny that

 

[Sao87]

Hmm JWOW (JWong) won a tourney w 30 people at it (Canada Cup) thats a local turnout at some big cities.

I look forward to playing him one day hopefully at Final Round

I think Justin has won like 4-5 MK9 majors at this point. The reason Raiden is considered top is because teleport gets him out of every defensive situation that sucks in this game.

You cant Jump on him, Pressure him, Zone him, etc. He controls the pace of a match and this game punishes defensive play.

 

[Sultani]

I think Justin has won like 4-5 MK9 majors at this point. The reason Raiden is considered top is because teleport gets him out of every defensive situation that sucks in this game.

You cant Jump on him, Pressure him, Zone him, etc. He controls the pace of a match and this game punishes defensive play.[/QUOTE

this is largely true. I can't find the email but ill sumarize what I remember when I'm not using my phone

 

[ForeverKing]

I definitely think old raiden was one of the best characters in the game, but new patched Raiden with nerfed teleport and frame traps isn't as great as everyone says, I agree Pig. His mix up game isn't that good, plus you can interrupt alot of his strings with armored attacks. He is good, but I wouldn't consider him top 5 like lots of others do. One of the best characters in the game in my honest opinion is Sonya, I'm not sure why she doesn't get as much as praise as some of the other characters. She's never included in any top 5, but a good Sonya can beat almost the whole cast IMO

 

[Sabin]

Hmm JWOW (JWong) won a tourney w 30 people at it (Canada Cup) thats a local turnout at some big cities.

I look forward to playing him one day hopefully at Final Round

Justin even though he doesnt focus on MK at all has some incredible fundamentals. If you ever get a chance to play him even though you obviously have more MK9 specific knowledge than he does you should not sleep on him at all.

also i have to chime in and say JOP was really good, especially when he was playing actively. he's just become disillusioned with the game for quite a few reasons. i cant blame him on that.

oh yeah and also in order to play raiden i think its obvious you need good fundamentals in fighting games period (not talking about what matchups are good or bad per se.) mainly because of his moveset. i think this is one of the reasons why maxter has a good raiden, he has overall great fundamentals as a fighting game player even if raiden is not his main. i would comment on bwizz but i never played him just saw him lighting it up on stream

 

[Enenra]

Yeah I do think Raiden match goes in CSZ favour, but I agree that he is quite over-rated.

That or most people that play him, dont know how to play him. I mean the average flowchart Raiden does teleport and then sweep, combo, throw or torpedo. Once all of that is stopped, the Raiden player doesn't know what to do.

I like to think there is much more to Raiden then this. I think most the characters are still mysteries waiting to be fully explored, but Raiden is a bit like Derp Zero. You just have to be prepared for a very boring, lame, yet beatable match.

Derp Zero? What the hell? You're hating on a character that gets progressively worse every patch because you people can't nut up and adapt? Sorry, don't understand why you disrespectin' on him. Did a man in a Sub Zero costume touch you inappropriately when you were little? I'm sorry I just don't...get it...

 

[M2Dave]

With all due respect to B W1zz and King, but I think Maxter is the best Raiden player from what I saw at Season's Beatings a couple of months ago. Even REO's Kabal barely got away with a victory.

Also, I am with Sabin. You guys have to give JOP credit too regardless of his personality. JOP is a very good player and a legend in the Tekken community.

As far as Raiden goes, he is a top 10 character. He has become a hit-and-run, turtle character in this version of the game. Some players mistakenly use him like a rush down character, which he is clearly not.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Derp Zero? What the hell? You're hating on a character that gets progressively worse every patch because you people can't nut up and adapt? Sorry, don't understand why you disrespectin' on him. Did a man in a Sub Zero costume touch you inappropriately when you were little? I'm sorry I just don't...get it...

He is saying the match is boring. Unless I am facing a good rushdown sub zero, it is indeed boring. He wasnt saying Sub Zero is OP, he was saying Sub is usually a boring match.

 

[RampaginDragon]

I agree, most Raidens are at the most annoying and there are a good number of charecters that give him a run for his money. I also agree SZ is usually a very boring and repetitive fight. And he is not OP but he's definitly a monster of a charecter. I don't like fighting him regardless of playstyle. And it's not that I'm bad or can't adapt, I just personally don't like fighting him.

 

[RampaginDragon]

One of the best characters in the game in my honest opinion is Sonya, I'm not sure why she doesn't get as much as praise as some of the other characters. She's never included in any top 5, but a good Sonya can beat almost the whole cast IMO

This. I belive this as well, Sonya is Godlike. Definitly top 5 when being played well.

 

[Enenra]

He is saying the match is boring. Unless I am facing a good rushdown sub zero, it is indeed boring. He wasnt saying Sub Zero is OP, he was saying Sub is usually a boring match.

Ah. Guess I've seen too much hatemail.