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Strategy I Bring You the Gift of Pain - Patch 1.06 Discussion

Heaton

NO MONEY DOWN

Deathstroke said:
· The Enhanced Reflexes (character power) activation time has been reduced to 60 frames (down from 85 frames), lasts 3 seconds (down from 5 seconds), and has a cool down of 6 seconds (up from 3 seconds).
· Bullets fired during the Enhanced Reflexes character power now perform less damage.
· The Eye for an Eye super move now has 9 additional frames of armor.
So altogether, not bad. They retooled his trait so we can definitely get it off of more hard knockdowns, and possibly get it off much more easily at fullscreen against other projectile characters. They also gave his super a bit more armor, which is nice, since I've ended up doing a super and then eating all sorts of sadness - usually stuff like doing a super into an interactible with lots of active frames, like furnaces.

There's also how other characters got buffed or nerft that may affect us, too:

Batgirl said:
· The size of her hurt box was slightly increased, meaning she will be vulnerable to a wider array of attacks.
· The ducking Light attack can now be parried correctly.
· The Bat-Wheel can no longer be ducked by certain characters.
Though I can't think of any specific situations against Batgirl, having a bigger hurt box is always a detriment, and this might make dealing with her a bit more tolerable.

Batman said:
· Mechanical Bats (Character Power) regeneration has been increased to 9 seconds (up from 6 seconds).
· Increased recovery time for the Stay Down combo (Back + Medium, Hard) when it is blocked or misses.
· Straight Grapple can now be evaded/parried by projectile-counter special moves.
Oh thank God. 3 seconds is an eternity in fighting games, and this should help us better match Batman's up close game. The b+2,3 nerf is also nice if you've ever had the joy of playing zoning Batman that just b+2,3 away all day.

Black Adam said:
· Reduced duration of Orbs of Seth (Character Power) to 4.5 seconds and increased the cool down to 9 seconds (up from 7 seconds)
· Boot Stomp now has a block advantage of -21 (down from -15)
· Lightning Strike now only hits grounded opponents when performed outside of a combo.
· The Meter Burn version of the Lightning Strike is now -1 (down from +8)
· The Meter Burn version of Black Magic no longer conflicts with hard attack bounce/juggle limiting.
· Reduced the distance Black Adam covers when back-dashing
· Increased the duration of the back dash to 31 frames (up from 26)
· Increased the duration of the front dash to 18 frames (up from 16)
· Slightly increased the amount of damage scaling on combos.
· Fixed an issue where the Orbs of Seth were labeled UNBLOCKABLE during Practice mode when they hit Mid.
· Fixed an issue where Black Adam could stack two sets of the Orbs of Seth.
· Improved Hit Advantage on the Eye Of Horus combo (Back + Medium, Hard, Up, Medium)
That's a lot of stuff. Divekick being even more punishable is nice. MB Lightning Strike isn't amazing on block, so more chance for us to shoot guns. Dash nerf should definitely help all around, whether trying to play footsies or tagging him with shots when he's dashing at the wrong time. And of course, more damage scaling is always nice.

Catwoman said:
· The Meter Burn version of the Cat Dash now has two hits of armor.
· Both the High and Low Feline Evade now have 1 start up frame (down from 2).
So now Catwoman with meter can deal with High, Low, and Air shots better unless we meter burn them. Might be time to start looking into Machine Gun. Other than that, just calm down and be aware of the situations where she'll want to do it, and punish her for trying.

Doomsday said:
· The meter burn version of his Venom special move now has two hits of armor.
· If Doomsday is hit into a 3D wall bounce while his Doom to All (Character Power) is active, the Interactive Object is no longer rendered useless for the rest of the match.
Same as Catwoman.

Superman said:
· The Meter Burn version of the Flying Punch now has 2 hits of armor.
· Increased the amount of damage scaling on some combos.
· The Kryptonian Smash Super Move now has 5 frames of startup (up from 2) and is now a Mid attack.
· The Ground and Air Heat Vision attacks now have additional recovery frames.
· Slight hit box adjustment to the Cross Swipe (Toward + Medium) attack.
· Increased the amount of damage scaling after using the Heat Zap special move.
So this one is very interesting. He's got the whole "more armor on a move" thing going that Doomsday and Catwoman have. He can also still punish guns from full screen with his super. The big change for the match-up seems to be from his Heat Vision having more recovery, which could make dealing with his laser zoning even easier. And of course, more damage scaling on Superman is always nice.

Discuss away, Assassins.
 

Vagrant

Champion
Superman is easier
Batman is easier
Black Adam is easier
Flash is easier
GL is a little easier

Those are huge.


Now with trait. If DS can find a way to end a combo with trait safely and get in for his 132 string. (Which the 3 would be unblockable) then this trait buff is MASSIVE for Slade.
 

Heaton

NO MONEY DOWN
Flash is easier
Oh my God, I didn't even see that.

Flash said:
· Improved the hit box on the Flying Uppercut special move.
· Slightly increased damage scaling.
· His crouching Medium attack now has a block advantage of -11 (down from +1) and has increased recovery frames when it misses.
· His Speed Zone super move now performs 34.5% damage (down from 38.5%)
· Fixed an issue that allowed Flash’s Flying Uppercut to pass through some characters without dealing any damage.
· Fixed an issue where interrupting the Time Loop (character power) would sometimes result in the background color staying corrupted.
Thank God. We still have to be careful with guns, but at least now there's less retarded pressure when he's in. And not to mention - that background color glitch always bugged me.
 

Matix218

Get over here!
I dont get why they decreased damage on hit gunshots in trait and also made it active for less time and cool down longer.

Its like, ok, we will make it slightly easier to activate off of a hkd without getting bodied for it, but now it sucks really hard and cools down forever.

Im cool with the super buff tho, and the nerfs to many of DS's nemesis (batman's trait etc) are very helpful.

Overall we got slightly buffed basically because of the super and nerfs to other characters IMO, i think trait is still terrible from what i can tell.

Also do you think we can now punish a blocked b23 from batman with quickfire?? That would be MASSIVE in that matchup.
 

Vagrant

Champion
I dont get why they decreased damage on hit gunshots in trait and also made it active for less time and cool down longer.

Its like, ok, we will make it slightly easier to activate off of a hkd without getting bodied for it, but now it sucks really hard and cools down forever.

Im cool with the super buff tho, and the nerfs to many of DS's nemesis (batman's trait etc) are very helpful.

Overall we got slightly buffed basically because of the super and nerfs to other characters IMO, i think trait is still terrible from what i can tell.

Also do you think we can now punish a blocked b23 from batman with quickfire?? That would be MASSIVE in that matchup.

There are setups where some characters can't duck the trait high guns.
That's why they had to decrease the damage.
 

Duck Nation

Dicks with a future
Trait buff is a trait nerf. Flash still rapes us. The only characters he's gotten better against are ones he already did fine against. I'm really unhappy.

I think it's time to pick up a new character.
 

Rampage254

Ayy Lmao
I wasn't feeling it at first, but it's not too bad. Not great, but still not bad. Still wish they didn't nerf the damage on his guns when he was in trait, but I'll live. Now we just wait and see.
 

Duck Nation

Dicks with a future
LOL

Please do.
I'm not being Dave, here. Deathstroke was already clinging by his fingertips to mid-tier and we may have just lost that grasp. Flash losing an unspecified amount of damage and some frame advantage on a move that actually wasn't that useful to the DS match changes nothing. He's still going to easily beat DS in close and still going to completely ruin the ability to zone. Superman was already a 5-5, Adam was close to even, and GL we arguably beat. This is no help.
 

Vagrant

Champion
I'm not being Dave, here. Deathstroke was already clinging by his fingertips to mid-tier and we may have just lost that grasp. Flash losing an unspecified amount of damage and some frame advantage on a move that actually wasn't that useful to the DS match changes nothing. He's still going to easily beat DS in close and still going to completely ruin the ability to zone. Superman was already a 5-5, Adam was close to even, and GL we arguably beat. This is no help.

Flash isn't that bad for DS. You can zone him you just need to be careful.

When he's in if he does b22 simply block it and hold up and back. the jump back completely negates that frame trap game entirely.

Flashes dash goes further then his jump so if he's at dash distance be ready to d1 combo him in his recovery of the dash. If he walks from dash distance into jump distance THATS your tip off that he'll jump in and you can either pre emptive jump 1 or jump back if you dont like the angle.

And now flash's damage has been nerfed and his machine gun d2 crap is gone as well.
 

Vagrant

Champion
Also, Catwoman just became a loss, and so might've Arrow.

DS beat catwoman 6-4 before. 16 bit and I both agreed on that. this matchup now if anything will become even
DS beat GA before as well because GA couldn't counterzone DS high shots. this now will probably become even
 

Matix218

Get over here!
There are setups where some characters can't duck the trait high guns.
That's why they had to decrease the damage.
Do you think batman b23 will be punishable by quickfire now since they added recovery frames to it? I'm guessing no.
 

AZ MotherBrain

If you believe enough, -7 could be +7
He's really going to benefit from other character's "normalizations" the trait changes seem pretty good, but I need to tinker with it before I say its either good or bad. Even with the changes though, Slade still seems to be a mid to upper mid tier character.
 

Vagrant

Champion
Do you think batman b23 will be punishable by quickfire now since they added recovery frames to it? I'm guessing no.

I honestly have no idea man. The extra trait cool down helps a bit though. Batman can't consistently keep up with DS's zoning anymore. This is still a tough match though
 

Flawless Thomas

Apprentice
i think there's definitely going to be alot of setups with trait now to where you can knock them down and dash forward to the point they either have to wake up or block, and depending on that you can 132 into full combo. I don't think the changes made to his trait are reason to drop the character..chances are you didn't use the trait much to begin with when you did use him. I could be wrong though. I'm definitely sticking with DS and the trait buff is pretty fair in my opinion, if you perceive it as bad that's on you.
 

Duck Nation

Dicks with a future
It's not that his trait "buff" is shit, which it is, it's that he got no help on his bad matches and he just got a couple of new ones. The one thing he needed, he didn't get.
 

Flawless Thomas

Apprentice
It's not that his trait "buff" is shit, which it is, it's that he got no help on his bad matches and he just got a couple of new ones. The one thing he needed, he didn't get.
I think it's safe to say the normalizations given to other characters do help towards his bad matches.. I really didn't think he needed anything else changed.
 

Vagrant

Champion
I'm done debating this. We just see the game very differently man. Drop him if you want stick with him if you want. I just want the record to clearly show THAT I DID NOT ENGAGE IN ANY SORT OF DOWN PLAYING WHATSOEVER AND SHALL BE EXCUSED OF ANY ACCUSATIONS OF THE SORT!

ImNewbieSauce

You are my witness. I am hereby absolved of any downplaying.
 

Gesture Required Ahead

Get on that hook
DS beat catwoman 6-4 before. 16 bit and I both agreed on that. this matchup now if anything will become even
DS beat GA before as well because GA couldn't counterzone DS high shots. this now will probably become even

Yeah well...you better start watching your ankles 24/7 with Stinger MB on block. Yay free braindead get-in tools.
 

haketh

Champion
It's not that his trait "buff" is shit, which it is, it's that he got no help on his bad matches and he just got a couple of new ones. The one thing he needed, he didn't get.
Stroke didn't need anything to work on his bad MUs, at worse he had like one 7-3, for the most aprt he goes even with everyone. The character didn't need much and whatr he got is good.
 

Matix218

Get over here!
I honestly have no idea man. The extra trait cool down helps a bit though. Batman can't consistently keep up with DS's zoning anymore. This is still a tough match though
I agree completely, it will definitely help DS in the zoning aspect of the matchup. The only reason i think that there is a slight chance that we may be able to punish b23 with quickfire is that b23 puts batman back at a range that would normally against 99% of things be safe regardless of a few extra recovery frames BUT, since quickfire has fast start up and essentially 0 projectile "travel time" i thought that DS may end up being potentially the only one that could punish it on block (even if it is safe vs rest of the cast). Just a thought but we wont know until we find out how many frames of recovery were added to his b23 which we will know in a week.

Im interested to see what kind of cheap stuff we can figure out with the faster trait activation. I guess good for closing out matches/rounds possibly?
 

Rampage254

Ayy Lmao
I'm done debating this. We just see the game very differently man. Drop him if you want stick with him if you want. I just want the record to clearly show THAT I DID NOT ENGAGE IN ANY SORT OF DOWN PLAYING WHATSOEVER AND SHALL BE EXCUSED OF ANY ACCUSATIONS OF THE SORT!

ImNewbieSauce

You are my witness. I am hereby absolved of any downplaying.
I'm with you