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How2 Punish Mileena's non-amped base sai off jailing strings with the entire cast!

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
Mileena can make her base Sai's jail off F43, B1 and F2 but to ensure saftey you have to spend that bar.
I'll explain:

Many people on social media have made the claim:
"her (Meterless) base sai off strings like F43/F2/B1 is safe against a hand full of characters, if not half the cast are safe"


Well I did the labbing and I'm sorry to say everyone can punish it. Many characters can duck the second high sai by holding down right before the second one hits and some are jailed into both. Between that and hitbox/hurtbox diversity is what determines how negative F43xxSai is on block across the cast.

Note: I don't have Robocop so I couldn't
test him. I'm pretty sure he can punish but maybe he is the exception?
EDIT:
thanks to @Afumba Robocop is added to the list. He is -18/-20 on stand block, he can't duck the second high by crouch blocking the first high Sai. He gets Full combo punish and KB. So that means the entire cast gets to punish Mileena's non-amped base Sai's


Characters that can punish F43xxBaseSai on block, Not Amplified:

  • Shang: -14 on block, can't duck 2nd Sai, full kombo punish with UpSkulls.
  • Shao Kahn: -18, can't duck, D4 punish.
  • Frost: -14 on block, Can't Duck, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Nightwolf: -18, can duck, full kombo.
  • Joker: -18 on block, can duck 2nd Sai, Full Kombo Punish/KB.
  • Johnny Cage: -18 on block, can duck, full Kombo with F344.
  • Sonya: -14, Can't Duck 2nd Sai, Full Kombo Punish B123.
  • Cassie: -14 on block, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Jax: -13, Full Kombo Punish KB.
  • Spawn: -18, Can't Duck, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Scorpion: -14, Can't Duck 2nd Sai, Full Kombo Punish and KB (F34).
  • Noob: -18 on block, Can Duck, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Baraka: -21, Can Duck 2nd High Sai, Full Kombo Punish KB.
  • Raiden: -21 OB, Can Duck 2nd High Sai, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Jacqui: -22, Can Duck 2nd High Sai, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Sub Zero: -14 OB, Can't Duck 2nd High Sai, Full Kombo Punish with 3xxDF1.
  • Kano: -20 OB, Can Duck 2nd High Sai, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Kabal: -20 OB, Can Duck 2nd high sai, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Liu Kang: -21 on block, Can Duck 2nd high Sai, Full Kombo Punish KB.
  • Kitana: -20 OB, Can Duck 2nd High Sai, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Kung Lao: -20 on block, Can Duck 2nd High Sai, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Jade: -20, Can't Duck 2nd high Sai, Small Kombo Punish (20%).
  • Scarlett: -21, Can Duck, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Erron Black: -16/-20, Can't Duck, Full Kombo.
  • D'vorah: -21 on block, Can Duck 2nd Sai, Full Kombo.
  • Kotal: -15 on block, Can't Duck, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Sheeva: -15 on block, Can't Duck, Can full combo Punish only with Dragon Charge Amped.
  • Rambo: -16, Can't Duck, Micro Dashxx B33 full punish.
  • Terminator: -17, can't duck, full kombo punish with B2.
  • Geras: -20, Can Duck, Full Kombo.
  • Kollector: -20, Can Duck 2nd Sai, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Sindel: -20, Can Duck, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Mileena: -21 on block, Can Duck, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Cetrion: -21, Can Duck, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Fujin: -21 on block, Can Duck, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Rain: -21 on block, Can Duck, Full Kombo Punish.
Here is an example of ducking the second high sai to make it more negative on block:


Example of rain block ducking the second Sai making it not jail:


It's important to mention amped Sai's are completely safe and even the characters who can duck the 2ns High Sai can't escape the double low Sai from amping it.
Amped Sai vs Regular Sai's is not reactable, so there is a guessing game if Mileena will amp the base Sai's or not. If she does amp they are punished for 7% if she does meterless Sai's and they make the read and go for the punish they get a full Kombo punish and many into KB.
IMO it's not worth risking the non-amped version because the trade-off is in their favor, not Mileena's. So my advice is to never do base sai (meterless) off F43/F2/B1 because if they guess right they get a much higher reward than you do. Let's not forget F2/B1 into Sai can't be hit confirmed like F43(Using Play Time Slot) can. Mileena's opponent can react to anything into meterless Sai because of extra frames the double Sai's add visually.
In Short Always AMP Sai when using it to make her strings safer. But if you conditioned them to respect the amped version maybe you could get away with it every so often.

@Evil Canadian
@xenogorgeous
@FoughtDragon01
@Vslayer

Plz share with any Mileena players you think might benefit from this. I only tagged you because I know you all like Mileena
#TeamMileena
 
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xenogorgeous

Mileena is the best, Mileena 4ever !
Premium Supporter
Mileena can make her base Sai's jail off F43, B1 and F2 but to ensure saftey you have to spend that bar. I'll explain:
Many people on social media have made the claim her non-amped base sai off strings like F43 is safe against a hand full of characters in not half the cast.

Well I did the labbing and I'm sorry to say everyone can punish it. Some characters can duck the second high sai by holding down right before the second one hits and some are jailed into both. Between that and hitbox/hurtbox diversity how negative F43xxSai is on block differs greatly.

Note: I don't have Robocop so I couldn't
test him. I'm pretty sure he can punish but maybe he is the exception?

Characters that can punish F43xxBaseSai on block, Not Amplified:

  • Shang: -14 on block, can't duck 2nd Sai, full kombo punish with UpSkulls.
  • Shao Kahn: -18, can't duck, D4 punish.
  • Frost: -14 on block, Can't Duck, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Nightwolf: -18, can duck, full kombo.
  • Joker: -18 on block, can duck 2nd Sai, Full Kombo Punish/KB.
  • Johnny Cage: -18 on block, can duck, full Kombo with F344.
  • Sonya: -14, Can't Duck 2nd Sai, Full Kombo Punish B123.
  • Cassie: -14 on block, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Jax: -13, Full Kombo Punish KB.
  • Spawn: -18, Can't Duck, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Scorpion: -14, Can't Duck 2nd Sai, Full Kombo Punish and KB (F34).
  • Noob: -18 on block, Can Duck, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Baraka: -21, Can Duck, Full Kombo Punish KB.
  • Raiden: -21 OB, Can Duck, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Jacqui: -22, Can Duck, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Sub Zero: -14, Can't Duck, Full Kombo Punish with s3xxiceball.
  • Kano: -20 OB, Can Duck, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Kabal: -20 OB, Can Duck, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Liu Kang: -21 on block, Can Duck, Full Kombo Punish KB.
  • Kitana: -20, Can Duck, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Kung Lao: -20 on block, Can Duck, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Jade: -20, Can't Duck, Small Kombo Punish (20%).
  • Scarlett: -21, Can Duck, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Erron Black: -16/-20, Can't Duck, Full Kombo.
  • D'vorah: -21 on block, Can Duck 2nd Sai, Full Kombo.
  • Kotal: -15 on block, Can't Duck, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Sheeva: -15 on block, Can't Duck, Can full combo Punish only with Dragon Charge Amped.
  • Rambo: -16, Can't Duck, Micro Dashxx B33 full punish.
  • Terminator: -17, can't duck, full kombo punish with B2.
  • Geras: -20, Can Duck, Full Kombo.
  • Kollector: -20, Can Duck 2nd Sai, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Sindel: -20, Can Duck, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Mileena: -21 on block, Can Duck, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Cetrion: -21, Can Duck, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Fujin: -21 on block, Can Duck, Full Kombo Punish.
  • Rain: -21 on block, Can Duck, Full Kombo Punish.
It's important to mention amped Sai's are completely safe and even the characters who can duck the 2ns High Sai can't escape the double low Sai from amping it.
Amped Sai vs Not Amped is not reactable, so there is a guessing game if Mileena will amp the base Sai's or not. If she does amp they are punished for 7% if she amps but if they make the read and go for the punish they get a full Kombo punish and many into KB.
IMO it's not worth risking the non-amped version because the trade-off is in their favor, not Mileena's. So my advice is to never do base sai (meterless) off F43/F2/B1 because if they guess right they get a much higher reward than you do. Let's not forget F2/B1 into Sai can't be hit confirmed like F43(Using Play Time Slot) can.
In Short Always AMP Sai when using it to make her strings safer. But if you conditioned them to respect the amped version maybe you could get away with it every so often.

@Evil Canadian
@xenogorgeous
@FoughtDragon01
@Vslayer

Plz share with any Mileena players you think might benefit from this. I only tagged you because I know you all like Mileena
#TeamMileena
excellent job, dude, amazing analysis ! yeah, Amp sais is a very useful tool , worth spend the bar .... in fact, I use the amp 99% of time instead of the regular normal version, I see no reason to not use the amp version most of time ! in fact, the amp sais can pratically almost make any negative string to become almost 100% safe , when cancelling a potential failed blocked string into amp sais .... kinda, the pushback give you a minor window room to split second think about what escape move to do next, hehe :D
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
excellent job, dude, amazing analysis ! yeah, Amp sais is a very useful tool , worth spend the bar .... in fact, I use the amp 99% of time instead of the regular normal version, I see no reason to not use the amp version most of time ! in fact, the amp sais can pratically almost make any negative string to become almost 100% safe , when cancelling a potential failed blocked string into amp sais .... kinda, the pushback give you a minor window room to split second think about what escape move to do next, hehe :D
Yeah I don't use Meterless unless I know I've conditioned them to be afraid of the two lows from amped Sai's.
There are multiple videos, twitter posts all claiming regular sai was safe against a good majority of the cast even without meter. I think they didn't lab up the matchups and probably only seen one character be -13 at near jump distance and just decided it was pretty safe. Either that or they don't know about ducking the second high or large hitbox characters like Spawn are so much more unsafe than female characters when stand blocking.
I have no clue why spawn is around -18 while females are -13/-14 when stand blocking.
 

Afumba

Noob
Thanks for this. Had i known i wouldnt have started doing it myself :D At least i am only about half way done, so i look at you posting this as "half the time saved"... silver linings and stuff :)

Robocop can punish it with 212 string, gets even a KB for it the first time. His B2 overhead launcher punishes it as well for full combo. F1 string and his sweep do punish it as well.

As i dont play Robocop so i cant say if he gets anything on the F1, but 27% for the KB and a full combo launcher in B2 looks pretty sweet for him already.

Edit: Robocop is jailed into both projectiles
 
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LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
Thanks for this. Had i known i wouldnt have started doing it myself :D At least i am only about half way done, so i look at you posting this as "half the time saved"... silver linings and stuff :)

Robocop can punish it with 212 string, gets even a KB for it the first time. His B2 overhead launcher punishes it as well for full combo. F1 string and his sweep do punish it as well.

As i dont play Robocop so i cant say if he gets anything on the F1, but 27% for the KB and a full combo launcher in B2 looks pretty sweet for him already.

Edit: Robocop is jailed into both projectiles
So it's confirmed that the entire cast gets to punish base meterless Sai's. Must be by design.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
Yea, and it looks like everybody gets a full kombo except Shao Kahn. Not sure whats more sad, that she gets 99% full komboed or that Shao Kahn gets the shaft again :D
NRS just wanted to be consistent with the Emperor of Outworld. It is kind of laughable that Shao Kahn out of the entire cast gets D4 but on the bright side it actually jails into important things now.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
Thanks for this. Had i known i wouldnt have started doing it myself :D At least i am only about half way done, so i look at you posting this as "half the time saved"... silver linings and stuff :)

Robocop can punish it with 212 string, gets even a KB for it the first time. His B2 overhead launcher punishes it as well for full combo. F1 string and his sweep do punish it as well.

As i dont play Robocop so i cant say if he gets anything on the F1, but 27% for the KB and a full combo launcher in B2 looks pretty sweet for him already.

Edit: Robocop is jailed into both projectiles
Do you know how negative he is so I can update to add him to the list?
 

Afumba

Noob
Do you know how negative he is so I can update to add him to the list?
Its -18 at max range of f4, -20 point blank and -19 in between.


It's pretty sad, many top players from Notible teams on twitter where saying the same. They must know some special tech ;)
Probably just trying to direct attention to other characters and away from the ones they main themselves.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
Wait people do regular sai without amping it off f43?????!!! Lol I never thought of that honestly because I was scared I was getting punished haha
I kind of understand why some thought it was safe. Some characters are about jump kick distance at -14 so it really did look safe for some. Even some people I respect who makes amazing tech/mk videos.
But I think it was just that they didn't know how many characters can duck to make the second high sai wiff as the first one hits on block making it go from -14 to -20/-22.

I think it's worth the bar to use F2/B1/F43 into amped sai. 4.5% chip and nearly 19% on hit while keeping you safe and essentially stopping pressure