Question - D'Vorah How would you improve Venomous and Brood Mother?

[Orchazm]

I think that most people here will agree that Swarm Queen is the undisputed best variation for D'vorah. Swarm Queen is even regularly in the discussion for Top 5 character/variation in the whole game.

I am of the opinion that as this game evolves there will be almost NO reason to play either of her other two variations in a competitive environment. Part of this is because Swarm Queen is just that good, which is fine, but another part is because I feel that her other variations are missing some tools that could bring them closer to Swarm Queen.

Here are 3 changes I would make for Venomous and Brood Mother:

Venomous
1) Can Dash Cancel out of Bug Spray with same frame data as Swarm Queen.
2) New string option from B1 and/or F2 (or F3)
3) New ovipositor air-ok special, like a mid-air Ovipositor Rush.

Brood Mother
1) Can Dash Cancel out of Bug Burst with same frame data as Swarm Queen.
2) New string option from B1 and/or F2 (or F3)
3) New crawler special that hits overhead (on seperate timer from the other crawler)

This would give the other two variations the same 50/50 options as Swarm Queen with less damage potential in most cases (unless you spend meter) with new specials and strings added to further add flavor and differentiate the variations. What are your thoughts?

 

[G4S MinotaurLord]

Sounds like you want all the variations to basically play the same. I disagree with a lot of these changes. IMO Venomous doesn't need anything, and I'm not quite sure what Brood Mother needs, but maybe it should have been a less rushdown, more zoning oriented variation. Know that if Venomous got the same cancel data as Swarm Queen, there would be almost no reason to use that variation at all. Every df1 would be an absurd mix-up.

 

[Folux182]

Venomous is so good already. Have you seen how much she does on chip with the spray and the ex version? And the punish window is ridiculous and if one part of the spray hits you, you're stuck all over again. And she can keep using down 4 as a mixup to add poison ticks with almost no risk whatsoever. She doesn't play like Swarm Queen but that doesn't mean Venomous isn't great already.

 

[Icy Black Deep]

You definitely shouldn't be happy until Venomous wins a major.

 

[YOMI DJT]

I think all her variations are viable and buffing either one of those two would be ridiculously OD!!!!

 

[Krayzie]

I think all her variations are viable and buffing either one of those two would be ridiculously OD!!!!

You're a stupid man. A very stupid man!

*Does the Bernie

 

[Krayzie]

On a serious note.

Venomous is fine, and of course Swarm Queen is her best variation.

I was going to dive into the Brood Mother variation this next week because there are some changes I think it needs.

I'll try and do a write up when I get a chance.

 

[Hellbringer]

@Johnny2d

 

[SneakyTortoise]

Jesus fucking christ

 

[ChatterBox]

I think these are cool but unrealistic buffs and would make Brood Mother WAY overpowered.

My honest opinion to make them more competitively viable is to tone up their strengths, not just make them SQ.
BTW I think both variations are fine, until someone starts actually blocking my brood mother setups then I think it's good.

Brood Mother
1) Make Krawler cooldown same as Quan Cheesy (1 second) or to be fair just make it less than five. If I get it back in three then I would smoke fools.
2) Make bug blast do more damage, it's one of the saddest projectiles I've ever seen.

But seriously, one fucking second for quan chi, who gets four options and some of those don't have an animation? This one has to wait a thousand frames to have a Krawler hit from sweep distance.

Venomous
1) EX bug spray is safe on block. BOOM
2) If we need another (we don't) then have all of her hand spike attacks (D1, 112, j1 and j2) add damage stacks as well.

That's all folks.

 

[Krayzie]

I think these are cool but unrealistic buffs and would make Brood Mother WAY overpowered.

My honest opinion to make them more competitively viable is to tone up their strengths, not just make them SQ.
BTW I think both variations are fine, until someone starts actually blocking my brood mother setups then I think it's good.

Brood Mother
1) Make Krawler cooldown same as Quan Cheesy (1 second) or to be fair just make it less than five. If I get it back in three then I would smoke fools.
2) Make bug blast do more damage, it's one of the saddest projectiles I've ever seen.

But seriously, one fucking second for quan chi, who gets four options and some of those don't have an animation? This one has to wait a thousand frames to have a Krawler hit from sweep distance.

Venomous
1) EX bug spray is safe on block. BOOM
2) If we need another (we don't) then have all of her hand spike attacks (D1, 112, j1 and j2) add damage stacks as well.

That's all folks.

Venomous is fine.

I don't want to say too much before I really mess with Brood Mother a significant amount of time, but... that cooldown on krawler is terrible, and her projectile hitting high makes 0 sense. I'm trying to figure out what type of character shes supposed to be though. Because shes definitely not a set-up character, otherwise if she is, then she sucks... lol

 

[Vak Phoenix]

Brood mother, less cooldown on krawler and make bug blast as easy rc as wasp grenade.

 

[Johnny2d]

Brood mother is fine.

Just curious, how many other Brood Mother MAINS in here, and what have your tournament results been online and off, majors and locals?

 

[Tom Brady]

You dont need to improve the other variations. Swarm Queen is better because its too strong and not because the other variations need to be better.

If D'Vorah needs any changes its that the bug blast from the ground needs to be more negative on whiff and her cancels in Swarm Queen all need a gap for armor. Advantage 50/50's should never exist.

 

[Krayzie]

You dont need to improve the other variations. Swarm Queen is better because its too strong and not because the other variations need to be better.

If D'Vorah needs any changes its that the bug blast from the ground needs to be more negative on whiff and her cancels in Swarm Queen all need a gap for armor. Advantage 50/50's should never exist.

The idea behind these NRS games has always been to keep them powerful, not nerf them. And you were a firm believer in this since our first visit to Netherrealm.

I think you are just upset about sub zero, who is actually just fine...

And for the record, Venomous is a better Brood Mother, as Swarm Queen is a better Venomous. These variations have no difference other than a tier spot. If you don't see a problem in that, then you don't see the point of variations.

 

[Tom Brady]

The idea behind these NRS games has always been to keep them powerful, not nerf them. And you were a firm believer in this since our first visit to Netherrealm.

I think you are just upset about sub zero, who is actually just fine...

And for the record, Venomous is a better Brood Mother, as Swarm Queen is a better Venomous. These variations have no difference other than a tier spot. If you don't see a problem in that, then you don't see the point of variations.

You cant begin to lower characters while leaving other very powerful. Touch a few = gotta touch them all. its a slippery slope which is why I am always against early nerfs and buffs.

 

[Krayzie]

You cant begin to lower characters while leaving other very powerful. Touch a few = gotta touch them all. its a slippery slope which is why I am always against early nerfs and buffs.

I feel like the first few changes should of made the rest of the variations better.

I just hate to see them not being used.

Anyway... I'm gonna leave this topic here and say...

I'll be using Swarm Queen the whole way. And good luck to all of the Brood Mother mains! May you get the opportunity to shine at a major one day.

See yall at EVO!

 

[Zoidberg747]

Those venemous changes are fucking stupid. Hell no.

If anything take the special OS tech out of the game so there is at least some mind game with holding/letting go of the spray. That is the only thing I think she really needs.

For Brood Mother they just need to make krawler not have a cooldown. No idea why it has one in the first place.

Venomous is so good already. Have you seen how much she does on chip with the spray and the ex version? And the punish window is ridiculous and if one part of the spray hits you, you're stuck all over again. And she can keep using down 4 as a mixup to add poison ticks with almost no risk whatsoever. She doesn't play like Swarm Queen but that doesn't mean Venomous isn't great already.

When blocking the spray dont let go of block and mash a special, it will come out on the first frame nullifying letting go or doing the full spray.

 

[Farpafraf]

I think that most people here will agree that Swarm Queen is the undisputed best variation for D'vorah. Swarm Queen is even regularly in the discussion for Top 5 character/variation in the whole game.

I am of the opinion that as this game evolves there will be almost NO reason to play either of her other two variations in a competitive environment. Part of this is because Swarm Queen is just that good, which is fine, but another part is because I feel that her other variations are missing some tools that could bring them closer to Swarm Queen.

Here are 3 changes I would make for Venomous and Brood Mother:

Venomous
1) Can Dash Cancel out of Bug Spray with same frame data as Swarm Queen.
2) New string option from B1 and/or F2 (or F3)
3) New ovipositor air-ok special, like a mid-air Ovipositor Rush.

Brood Mother
1) Can Dash Cancel out of Bug Burst with same frame data as Swarm Queen.
2) New string option from B1 and/or F2 (or F3)
3) New crawler special that hits overhead (on seperate timer from the other crawler)

This would give the other two variations the same 50/50 options as Swarm Queen with less damage potential in most cases (unless you spend meter) with new specials and strings added to further add flavor and differentiate the variations. What are your thoughts?

 

[Folux182]

Those venemous changes are fucking stupid. Hell no.


When blocking the spray dont let go of block and mash a special, it will come out on the first frame nullifying letting go or doing the full spray.

Thanks for this. I was already labbing and figured it out. I was trying to find other options besides the special to really punish.

 

[Darksteel23]

As MKX player that main's Venomous D'Vorah and I would say alot of these suggested buffs for Vemonous would make her outright broken. Venomous Key strength is the fact you can end matches extremely fast if you hit the opponent with the correct strings. For example 212, Ex. DB1 ,NJ1/2, F22, DB4 gets you near half life alone. Also you have time (even with delay wake up) for one mix-up and if your opponent guess wrong between D4 the last ticks bring opponent life down past 50% or F22, DB4 brings the opponent life down to slightly above 30% life.

The fact Bug Spray blockstun is long and can cancel early makes it difficult for players to reversal it (even if they mash it) and has about the same range as D'Vorah D4. Meaning if you practice using it at max range of the bug spray most characters become unable to punish. Also how stupid the meter gain is. If your opponent is not frame perfect you have the option to block, jump or do Poison Ovipositor Rush. Also at below 20% doing F112, in Ex Bug Spray is a free win regardless if the opponent blocks or not and if it's just going into the second round then more than likely you got nearly all the meter that was just used to win the round.

 

[proto3296]

I think having all of those have the same cancel window as swarm queen would make this character easily the best. It'd be too cheap.
Id say for venomous give her a target combo that starts low with her ovipositors.
Brood mother make it so that the crawler has less recharge time.
Give her a new bug projectile that works as a trap you throw out into the air. It would explode if touched and you can juggle off of it.

Their main problems are comboing for high damage. Venomous can just reset the opponent and stack poison to make up for the lack of damage.

Brood mother on the other hand needs to be given a more strict role. It seems like she's supposed to be a zoner, but her zoning tools arent good enough. Her close up game isnt good enough either. She's just a middle of the pack variation who doesnt know what to be.

 

[mistaRONJON]

Brood Mother when used properly is strictly for mixups and footsies. Mainly MIXUPS! I'll usually play a few sets with somebody in BM just to get a feel of how they play because in BM I have great footsies, I have great mixup potential that cancel into the crawler furthermore extending my combos and still able to punish if my opponent doesn't want to respect my options. I'd like to see the Krawler come back a lot sooner tho because there have been times where I needed it and I accidently whiff my combo bc it's still cooling down. Venomous is good just make Bug Spray safer and able to to punish JIPs..

 

[LaidbackOne]

Where the fuck are those people comming from?

 

[Johnny2d]

I usually hold back on buff or nerf comments, let others do the arguing and begging, but as one of the only Brood Mother mains I feel I should say what I think Brood Mother actually needs. Not a laundry list or wish list, just what she would need to make the variation viable.

1. F11, df1 xx, 212... Should get an extra 2 frames of cancel advantage on hit, just like the swarm queen buff we saw to make her cancel combos bread and butter material. I'm not asking for her to have enough cancel advantage to use the cancel from an overhead or low, just enough to make the f11 combo viable. As is it's possible, but so hard I don't think it will ever be reliable. she needs to be able to convert f11 into damage/setups.

2. Slightly reduce cool down on krawler. I don't need it all the time, I would just like it recovered after bnb's. As is there are several combos I've posted that allow you to combo then end with krawler, then combo long enough again to end with krawler again, but they are ideal situation combos and tech roll mitigates them. In Brood Mother, the krawler setups and space control situations aren't even close to the hard to blockables that other characters get like cassie/quan in terms of the bind they put the opponent in. Lets get the ability to put krawler out off each decent bnb to keep momentum going. this needs to be a very slight buff, make us work to keep the flow going, but allow us to have access to what makes the variation.

I get that as is, Brood Mother stuff probably works just as intended, so I'm not asking for anything radical. These two things wouldn't even change where Brood Mother lands on the Swarm/Venomous/Brood comparison, but they would improve quality of life, and allow Brood Mother players to play the variation and have access to the tools it seems like she should use.