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How to punish Shang Tsung 6-25-2019(Noble Raptor)

LawAbidingCitizen

MD| Soberless (Terminator-Final Judgment)
Since I've herd so many struggles with the Shang matchup I'm making this thread so everyone will know how to punish Shang. This won't ruin a competitive player because they will play smart and condition these unsafe tools but this will destroy every online Shang Counter picker.

Noble Raptors Video:


How to Fuzzy Guard by STB Shijinkydink
This is on Kabal but the basic concept works universally for all characters with Fuzzyable mix. Shang Tsung is one of them.
Specifically his B3U4/B3D4(Low-Overhead/Low-Low) its very easy to Fuzzy: how easy you ask? You have 16 frames after the second low hits to block the overhead. So no matter which one they do you can fuzzy both 100% of the time. I've seen top players fuzzy Kabals F224/F22xxDB1 very consistently and it only has 5f window after the overhead to block the low. 5f is considered very easy to fuzzy by tournament players its 2-3 frames that are hard but Shang's 16f gap between the mix turns it into a non-50/50. This isn't to say a good player can't trip up an opponent and get them hit by 22-30f moves because its possible when you throw multiple guesses into your pressure game making them look out for many different options that have different responses to punish can open up the best players but that's what we call out playing your opponent.
If we are being truthful Shanks mix is pretty honest. Knowing how to counter him leaves him with B1/F2 stagger into throws and guess between number of hits and the occasional frame trap into Soulsteal/Poke.

Here is dinks video on Fuzzy Block/Guard:


Wiff punishing Shang:
Its pretty hard to stay out of his F242 range because of the distance he covers with that move but if you practice it in the lab and vs friends you can turn his best string into a very punishable one even without FB. You make the first two hits Wiff then go into your starter before the last flame fist hits.

Other Strings You Can Shimmy/Bait Wiff:
114/112
B3U4 and B3D4
21U2D2
214
B2112
D1/D3

These strings have shorter range and you should find moves that are less than -4 on block so you can walk back baiting them. Become familiar with all of Shang's moves and more importantly their range.

Strings To Be Aware Of:
B112
B1D2
S3
S3U2
S3U2D2
F242
F243
B4
D4

The above strings/buttons have very good range and you need to be familiar with there range and hitboxes, many of these have step back animations where Shang walks back after avoiding counter (S3 starter). He also has disjointed hitboxes on a few that can override certain Mids/Highs and Overheads (B3U4,B3D4, S3, D4, B1).

His Zoning:
His zoning revolves around Corpse Drop(DF3 overhead and low when amped) and his straight skull (BF1 a high) and his Ground Skulls (DB1 & DB1F mids).

- Corpse Drop has slower startup at 26f so he struggles to get this out vs decent zoning because he can get beat out (Cassie) if they amp it you block first hit(overhead) and jump the high avoiding chip effectively waisting his bar and avoiding the pushback giving you more advantage. It has issues vs females on first hit so abuse that by moving slightly forward.

- Straight Skull: is a high that is pretty fast but can be ducked and with many characters it wiffs on crouch blocking opponents. Just duck them. Fuzzy upward if they are alternating Corpse Drop into Skull.

- Ground Explosion (Ground Skulls) DB1 and DB1F is his main anti air and combo starter. These have decent hitboxes but you can punish them how you seen in raptors video by several on the cast. But what he didn't show you is that you can dash between them leaving Shang -25 and even more in some cases allowing full combo punish if you time it right with a move that will reach (Scorpion and Sub shine here).

Hope this helps maybe we can compile who can punish his ground skulls on block and who has fast enough dash speed to escape them. So far I've found: Jacqui, Noob, Sub, Cassie can dash punish them.

@BuffRaiden
I know you made a thread about how you hated his Low to Overhead so from a Shang main to someone who may not know. Hope it helps.



@STB Sgt Reed
@Vslayer
@anyone else I forgot

Post what else you have found below
 
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LawAbidingCitizen

MD| Soberless (Terminator-Final Judgment)
Problem is if they jump and you don't amp you get a free anti air
How so? Corpse drop should never be used close up where they could be anti aired because its -13 even when amped and unsafe on block.

Characters with good dash speed can dash out of the way of Corpse drop all the way to Shang and punish him before he recovers from near full screen because it has tons of recovery.

But I think you are right, if they use Corpse Drop close enough to be punished and don't amp they could anti air it if their recovery allows it.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

MD| Soberless (Terminator-Final Judgment)
Yeah I mean more when you are zoning if they start jumping in between the amp you can snuff em with soul steal or hell skulls.
I'll test it but I think jumping the low amp on Corpse Drop causes Shang to have 30f recovery. But if so that's cool.
 
I didn't know you could jump out of df3's AMP. Very interesting video.
I just tried it it is pretty cool especially for few characters who can do something during jump. :)

Free anti air is relative but yes Sang will be plus on the ground if the opponent jumps so he can start something with that advantage while the opponent is in the air - short hop recovers faster though.

Sang is still strong with normal Drops as well and mixing up is just an extra which is not free but still strong. :)
 
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I don't feel like he should almost be completely safe on everything unless you flawless block. Some of his strings need to be negative. Flawless blcoking just isnt consistent online.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

MD| Soberless (Terminator-Final Judgment)
I don't feel like he should almost be completely safe on everything unless you flawless block. Some of his strings need to be negative. Flawless blcoking just isnt consistent online.
He isn't really safe on everything. His F242 is Wiff punishable, B3D4/B3U4 is punishable and fuzzy guardable but its in the opponents favor to punish B3U4 and eat the B3D4 since it does less than 4% and they get full combo when guessing right.
Ground Skulls are punishable by a good number of the cast without Flawless Blocking it and can be dashed through on reaction.
Straight Skulls have huge travel time making them reactable near full screen and 11 characters have teleports which counters most of his zoning tools.
Corpse Drop is reactable at 26f startup and there are plenty moves that get out of its first hit range and if they escape the amped version they can dash from near full screen getting full combo punish(Sub Zero tested)
B1D2(overhead KB) is reactable and you can just tech the B1 into throw or block B112.
He does have F243 with KB but that only triggers when they press a button, if they Flawless Block for F242 and he does F243 it won't KB because better players will only press U+2 on reaction and don't need to launch off it since it changes his +4 to -4 on block blowing up any continued pressure Shang does.
He isn't the safest character by far and take into account the top 6 characters are bad matchups for him.
 
He isn't really safe on everything. His F242 is Wiff punishable, B3D4/B3U4 is punishable and fuzzy guardable but its in the opponents favor to punish B3U4 and eat the B3D4 since it does less than 4% and they get full combo when guessing right.
Ground Skulls are punishable by a good number of the cast without Flawless Blocking it and can be dashed through on reaction.
Straight Skulls have huge travel time making them reactable near full screen and 11 characters have teleports which counters most of his zoning tools.
Corpse Drop is reactable at 26f startup and there are plenty moves that get out of its first hit range and if they escape the amped version they can dash from near full screen getting full combo punish(Sub Zero tested)
B1D2(overhead KB) is reactable and you can just tech the B1 into throw or block B112.
He does have F243 with KB but that only triggers when they press a button, if they Flawless Block for F242 and he does F243 it won't KB because better players will only press U+2 on reaction and don't need to launch off it since it changes his +4 to -4 on block blowing up any continued pressure Shang does.
He isn't the safest character by far and take into account the top 6 characters are bad matchups for him.
I lose esentially every game against him. Thanks for the info tho. Looks like I got work to do in the lab.
 

karaokelove

Dead or alive, you’re coming with me.
Premium Supporter
If anyone finds a punish for up-skull with Baraka, please let me know. Even if you flawless the 2nd fireball, the best I can get is a f4 or dash b4 that Shang can block.