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How do u guys handle poke mashers?

Moms4lif3

Bruh.
Since I started playing I met many players who were just spamming d1 or d3 on block and on hit all the time, once they get close to me. It is really annoying and sometimes I feel there is little you can reliably do in an online setting. Against some characters it’s no big deal, against others it becomes a really tough thing to overcome for me.

I know how „poke wars“ are supposed to work in theory: I block a poke and then I get to counterpoke, I can go for a string, I can throw, I can jump. I get that. But online (maybe not in a really good connection) I feel someone who is mashing pokes out can interrupt most anything, even my counterpoke unless I start mashing too.

I had a huge problem against a quite „unskilled“ Lao Player today. He was doing less than optimal combos, going for unsafe shit, jumping a lot and of course mashing pokes like his life depended on it, especially abusing Lao‘s d3. I was playing Sub and none of my pokes could interrupt a 2nd d3 after the first blocked one, nothing seemed quick enough and my d1 did not connect from the same range he could do his d3.

This was a huge problem, because it basically allowed him to mix me up with only his pokes. Sometimes he went for d3 on block once and then jumped, sometimes he did two in a row, usually followed by d4, sometimes he went for a throw after one or two d3s. When he hit me with hit he was at a frame advantage of course and I could simply wait for him to jump 3, that’s what he did mostly. I anti aired him a lot actually, but since I could not really tell when he would stop mashing and go for something else, timing the anti air got really tough :/ It meant I got mixed even further by his constant and nonsensical jumping, I just was never sure when he was going to stop mashing and go for a jump in or throw again.

I really tried to focus on simply letting him basically hang himself, playing it slow, punish him when he did something unsafe, and generally just playing neutral. I won a lot of games but I lost a lot of games too, because I simply could not find a way to stop him from mashing and doing unpredictable stuff.

What do you guys do in such situations? Is my counterpoke timing really that bad or does it happen to others too? Probably it was a MU thing in this case too, but I experienced similar situations a couple of times online and was wondering what to do about it. Allowing someone to just mash pokes and simply staying patient cannot be the answer, I mean I was basically allowing him to play the game in a way that should not work in theory.

Thanks for reading and I hope someone can give me good advice :)
 

Moms4lif3

Bruh.
Also: I’m definitely not a great player but I could hold my own against pretty good opponents in MKX and IJ2. I know all the basics of the game and I understand all the concepts in fighting games quite well. I definitely need to practice more but generally I feel like I should beat players like mentioned above easily with solid play.
 

Gruntypants

THE MUFFINS ARE BEEFY
Stop reacting slowly. Pokes (and all moves in general) have more blockstun and recovery than previous MK games. If you can't counterpoke someone who continues to poke after you block one then that's on you and your lack of timing/reaction.

I've never had this problem in this game
 

Baconlord

Proud follower of the church of Cetrion
If you block a poke you should be able to always d1 after. If you really want to blow them up for mashing a poke and you don't have a fast mid then block the first poke and walk back to make the second one whiff. Also make sure your hitconfirming your pokes so you get your pressure off of landing one
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Made a thread for tips. In the thread I talk about the pokes.


This was a quick clip in the thread:

 

Moms4lif3

Bruh.
Stop reacting slowly.
Wow. Thanks I guess.

It seems I have to work on my timing then. Are you able to do it in mediocre connections too? I mean if you’re mashing, the next poke should come out as fast as possible no? In really solid connection I never really had this issue too much, but if others can pull it of in worse connections it’s definitely me.
 

Moms4lif3

Bruh.
Ok, I think I got what I was doing wrong in this MU. My d1 did simply not reach far enough, I should’ve counterpoked with my d3. It felt pretty awkward for some reason. I guess I will have to learn more about the different characters’ pokes in the game and figure out what to do with my characters. I will leave this thread open for now, maybe other people had similar issues.

If the discussion stops I will close it soon!
Thank you guys
 

Moms4lif3

Bruh.
If you block a poke you should be able to always d1 after. If you really want to blow them up for mashing a poke and you don't have a fast mid then block the first poke and walk back to make the second one whiff. Also make sure your hitconfirming your pokes so you get your pressure off of landing one
Yea, d1 did not work. I will simply have to practice my options more :)
 
  1. When you block enemy D1 you poke back or do a fast mid / throw to catch em when they try to still mash d1
  2. Most of the time they mash D1 1-2 Times then throw just let em hit you with a few D1 and wait for em to whiff the throw for d2 crushing blow or full kb (this will make em think twice about spamming it vs you). dont forget d1 deal almost no damage so you can eat a bunch of em and still come out ahead if they miss 1 throw into full punish.
  3. Keep your distance (when you blocked a d1 dash back and do a fast mid)
Its very frustring when you are new to it but you just need to learn to play against it (just go into lab and record geras d1 spam).
 

Sazbak

Mortal
Sub's d1 has a pretty bad hitbox(prone to getting low profiled). E.g. if you go for f4 in neutral and they block it you think it's common sense to enforce your plus frames with d1 since it has 6f startup and you are in +4. However if they do d3 they will actually hit you, so against d3 mashers go for your own d3.
 
  1. Spam your own D1 (frame perfect) after you block their D1
  2. Have a 9 frame mid to counter off of it (Liu Kang only AFAIK), or Johnny's D1>NutPunch
  3. Block three of them and back up safely, or block two and watch out for tick-throws
Those seem to be your only real options. This poke system feels as horrible as Injustice 1 did. You can just pump that shit all day and few to no options exist that are good enough to deal with it otherwise.
 

Gaxkang

Banned
However the poke system works offline I think the online really screws with it online.

There can be times when you block a D1 and you cannot D1 back.

When you block a D1 you cannot move backwards or backdash away.
 

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
Neutral jump into a combo (J2 or J4, whatever works best for your character).

Or, block and then use D4 as it usually pushes them away. Once you push them back just back up and wait for them to do something dumb. People online usually mash D1 or D3 twice then go for a grab or the good players will D1 then go for a combo. If you see they're doing D1 D1 Grab, just be patient, block and uppercut their ass.

And also don't forget that MK11 is not a game where you want to be in your opponent's face all the time, you need to create distance.
 
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dribirut

BLAK FELOW
Poke system is bad imo. All they really have to do is add more block recovery to pokes. You don’t even have to make them more negative necessarily.. but imo they should do both. Add a bit more recovery frames on block aaaaand make them slightly more negative (-5 to -7)
 
In addition to the suggestions to just time your d1 counters better, if they're really predictable and you want a full punish you could do a slight walkback into a decent mid for a whiff punish

More complete examples courtesy of @Circus
(His example shows a walk back on your poke hit to bait disrespect but you can similarly do this on blocking an opponent's d1 who is keen on mashing more d1s after anyway)
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
I think we covered this in another thread, but the options are:
-Poke back, take your advantage
-Throw them
-Walk back, causing their next poke or throw to whiff, and whiff punish
-Cancel your poke into something to bait their counterpoke (for example d1~kicks will blow mashers up as Jacqui)
-Fast mid if you have one
-Short hop attacks
-Parry if you have one
etc.
 

CO-KANO

psn: UNFUCxWITABLE_1
Since I started playing I met many players who were just spamming d1 or d3 on block and on hit all the time, once they get close to me. It is really annoying and sometimes I feel there is little you can reliably do in an online setting. Against some characters it’s no big deal, against others it becomes a really tough thing to overcome for me.

I know how „poke wars“ are supposed to work in theory: I block a poke and then I get to counterpoke, I can go for a string, I can throw, I can jump. I get that. But online (maybe not in a really good connection) I feel someone who is mashing pokes out can interrupt most anything, even my counterpoke unless I start mashing too.

I had a huge problem against a quite „unskilled“ Lao Player today. He was doing less than optimal combos, going for unsafe shit, jumping a lot and of course mashing pokes like his life depended on it, especially abusing Lao‘s d3. I was playing Sub and none of my pokes could interrupt a 2nd d3 after the first blocked one, nothing seemed quick enough and my d1 did not connect from the same range he could do his d3.

This was a huge problem, because it basically allowed him to mix me up with only his pokes. Sometimes he went for d3 on block once and then jumped, sometimes he did two in a row, usually followed by d4, sometimes he went for a throw after one or two d3s. When he hit me with hit he was at a frame advantage of course and I could simply wait for him to jump 3, that’s what he did mostly. I anti aired him a lot actually, but since I could not really tell when he would stop mashing and go for something else, timing the anti air got really tough :/ It meant I got mixed even further by his constant and nonsensical jumping, I just was never sure when he was going to stop mashing and go for a jump in or throw again.

I really tried to focus on simply letting him basically hang himself, playing it slow, punish him when he did something unsafe, and generally just playing neutral. I won a lot of games but I lost a lot of games too, because I simply could not find a way to stop him from mashing and doing unpredictable stuff.

What do you guys do in such situations? Is my counterpoke timing really that bad or does it happen to others too? Probably it was a MU thing in this case too, but I experienced similar situations a couple of times online and was wondering what to do about it. Allowing someone to just mash pokes and simply staying patient cannot be the answer, I mean I was basically allowing him to play the game in a way that should not work in theory.

Thanks for reading and I hope someone can give me good advice :)
Like this ...
 

B. Shazzy

NRS shill #42069
Fyi, people are going to tell you to whiff punish them with walk back and do a string as the optimal choice vs D1 mash. Just know that you’re not actually whiff punishing, you’re “wish” punishing. Whiff punishing implies you reacted to something whiffing and punished. Nobody is reacting to a whiff down 1 and punishing. Youre just hoping they happen to mash basically in order for them get clipped by your string. Not a guaranteed strategy, just another example of how dumb poking is... mashing meta too strong. The correct answer is “mash back”.

Thank you, that is all.
 

dc1902

Noob
I personally dont play people who mash d1 24/7. I don't entertain that b.s. I'll play them maybe 3 matches to see if they know how to do anything else. If not then its bye