Help with defeating difficult players

[evolution07]

I'd like to say I'm a decent player. By no means am I an expert or anywhere near the skill level of SonicFox; however, I'd like to improve to where I can say I'm a great player and beat players who are extremely good.

I record my online matches manually since the built-in system in MKX seems to never work unless I'm lucky. The area I'm looking to improve upon is players who seem to just constantly beat your ass in the corner and you never have a fair shot at winning. That isn't fun to me and it really gets under my skin when it happens.

With the recent addition to Sub-Zero's Cryomancer variation buff, I met a player who will continuously hit me with the 'cold blooded' combo (F+BK,BP, FK+FP, D,B,BP+BL) and ends with his frost hammer. Since I deleted the recording I can't say what he does after, but once I'm hit the game is basically over lol.

With Liu Kang, folks get away with the 'windmill punch' and his short recovery frame that he can immediately do it again leaving the player unable to get a hit in.

With Shinnok, spamming 'Hell Sparks' 'Judgment Fist' or 'Devil's Flick'.

Predator, spamming his 'Slack-jawed" combo and ending with a close ground plasma shot and repeating that. It's an infinite combo.

I'm sure there are other road blocks I haven't discovered but you get the gist of what I'm saying. Maybe I'm not knowing how to counter these specific moves but some advice would be helpful. Videos would be great if possible, or even live sessions.

Thx.

 

[Vaiist]

I'd like to say I'm a decent player. By no means am I an expert or anywhere near the skill level of SonicFox; however, I'd like to improve to where I can say I'm a great player and beat players who are extremely good.

I record my online matches manually since the built-in system in MKX seems to never work unless I'm lucky. The area I'm looking to improve upon is players who seem to just constantly beat your ass in the corner and you never have a fair shot at winning. That isn't fun to me and it really gets under my skin when it happens.

With the recent addition to Sub-Zero's Cryomancer variation buff, I met a player who will continuously hit me with the 'cold blooded' combo (F+BK,BP, FK+FP, D,B,BP+BL) and ends with his frost hammer. Since I deleted the recording I can't say what he does after, but once I'm hit the game is basically over lol.

With Liu Kang, folks get away with the 'windmill punch' and his short recovery frame that he can immediately do it again leaving the player unable to get a hit in.

With Shinnok, spamming 'Hell Sparks' 'Judgment Fist' or 'Devil's Flick'.

Predator, spamming his 'Slack-jawed" combo and ending with a close ground plasma shot and repeating that. It's an infinite combo.

I'm sure there are other road blocks I haven't discovered but you get the gist of what I'm saying. Maybe I'm not knowing how to counter these specific moves but some advice would be helpful. Videos would be great if possible, or even live sessions.

Thx.

Just set the AI to do the moves you're having trouble with and experiment with how to punish it. For example, I learned that after blocking a windmill punch I could immediately jump and potentially punish whatever he tried to do after that.

 

[RM slacked]

I sincerely apologize for that

With Shinnok, spamming 'Hell Sparks'

But no seriously, add me on steam and I'd love to get some games in.

 

[TwiztidOne]

You should also try learning frame data so you can know where to poke and armor out, it might seem scary at first because of how many moves there are in the game, but just start off by learning the frame data of your main character then go on to learning the frames of the characters/moves you're having problems with

 

[DavS13]

Predator, spamming his 'Slack-jawed" combo and ending with a close ground plasma shot and repeating that. It's an infinite combo.

Good to know, thanks

But as people mentioned, just go to practice and record the AI to do whatever it is you are struggling against and find ways to counter it.

 

[TodaysAgenda]

Learning frame data is a must if you're looking to be a truly competitive player. You should also go into practice mode and practice getting out of set ups players use against you online. Lastly, take online matches with a grain of salt. Online players use many tactics that would never work in offline play because of the online lag aka Ermac abusing D3 into overhead, Sub abusing D3 into overhead, Milenna players throwing out the most unsafe moves possible

 

[infamy23]

So you're one of those guys who likes to yell "ALL YOU CAN DO IS FIGHT ME IN THE CORNER" on the mic when I'm beating you.

That's almost as good as the guys who complain that all I do is block.

Step 1 to becoming good:

Remove the word spamming from your vocabulary.

If someone does the same thing twice in a row, then you know what they're gonna do and therefore have a huge advantage over them.

Predator keeps doing b31 low plasma? Block low/high/low.... Now you're +7. Since he is "spamming" it, then you know his next attack is going to be at least 19 frames, so press any button that is faster than 19 frames and voila, you've defeated his infinite combo.

 

[C88 Zombieekiler]

Lol i did this yesterday with sub its actually a good way to make mkx fun

 

[Airvidal]

Hi, you can add me on Ps4 or XBL and I'll teach you everything I know.
GT: Airvidal17
Just let me know it's you

 

[evolution07]

Just set the AI to do the moves you're having trouble with and experiment with how to punish it. For example, I learned that after blocking a windmill punch I could immediately jump and potentially punish whatever he tried to do after that.

I know I can record the AI to do certain moves but I haven't fiddled around with that too much yet. I'll get on that soon.

I sincerely apologize for that

But no seriously, add me on steam and I'd love to get some games in.

Your name here looks familiar. I'm not sure if we've had matches on steam before or not.

You should also try learning frame data so you can know where to poke and armor out, it might seem scary at first because of how many moves there are in the game, but just start off by learning the frame data of your main character then go on to learning the frames of the characters/moves you're having problems with

Frame data I'm still understanding. By looking at that info, I know some moves require a big startup that leave them at a disadvantage and vice versa. I need more knowledge, here.

Good to know, thanks

Yeah, don't abuse it

Learning frame data is a must if you're looking to be a truly competitive player. You should also go into practice mode and practice getting out of set ups players use against you online. Lastly, take online matches with a grain of salt. Online players use many tactics that would never work in offline play because of the online lag aka Ermac abusing D3 into overhead, Sub abusing D3 into overhead, Milenna players throwing out the most unsafe moves possible

I'm sure if the lag was gone I'd have better matches. I'm certain of it. While the lag I experience is very minimal, I've learned to live with it.

So you're one of those guys who likes to yell "ALL YOU CAN DO IS FIGHT ME IN THE CORNER" on the mic when I'm beating you. That's almost as good as the guys who complain that all I do is block.

LOL no! While it does upset me I see it as a learning point. The hardest players are the ones I learn the best from, but it does become frustrating after a while. I've kept players in the corner myself so I can't say I don't do the same. Blocking is good defense when you know the right moment to go in. I do it a lot.

Step 1 to becoming good:

Remove the word spamming from your vocabulary.

I'll try

If someone does the same thing twice in a row, then you know what they're gonna do and therefore have a huge advantage over them.

Yes, true. There's a guy I fought in KOTH tonight (he doesn't like me; never gives respect to me but does others lol). He was Ermac and I was Kitana. He would do an EX Teleport and I would block then go right into a kombo. He did it three times after I knocked him down but it's something I knew he was gonna do because he had meter. One thing I always look at is someone's meter because I know that once I knock them on the ground, they usually do a wakeup attack with armor, which I counter by blocking and then going in for a punish.

Predator keeps doing b31 low plasma? Block low/high/low.... Now you're +7. Since he is "spamming" it, then you know his next attack is going to be at least 19 frames, so press any button that is faster than 19 frames and voila, you've defeated his infinite combo.

Yeah, once I get hit with that it's over because my player cannot recover fast enough to punish. I had to rage quit 'cuz I just couldn't get out of it. The +7 and 19 frame thing I still have to understand.

Hi, you can add me on Ps4 or XBL and I'll teach you everything I know.
GT: Airvidal17
Just let me know it's you

I'd like to but only have Steam at the moment. Maybe next year when a MKKE is out and I decide on a console. I see you have Steam as well but no MKX.

 

[RM slacked]

We've played multiple times, I think I'm the reason you hate shinnok

Your name here looks familiar.

 

[evolution07]

We've played multiple times, I think I'm the reason you hate shinnok

lol thought it was familiar. No, you're not the reason. I've met others who do it, just learning ways around it.

 

[infamy23]

Yeah, once I get hit with that it's over because my player cannot recover fast enough to punish. I had to rage quit 'cuz I just couldn't get out of it. The +7 and 19 frame thing I still have to understand.

This is a common pitfall for beginners to fighting games, and I suffered from it myself for 4 years in SF4 before I finally figured out what I was doing wrong.

Not everything is punishable; and as you get into higher levels of play, the vast majority of things that you encounter are actually not going to be punishable, because good players tend to play as safely as possible.

At that point you have to start thinking in terms of "what are my options", instead of "how do I punish this".

Learning how to read and understand frame data is important when you start examining your options in these types of situations.

There are guides you can read to get you started, such as this one: http://testyourmight.com/threads/how-to-read-understand-and-calculate-frame-data-in-mkx.49708/

Most of the guides I've read contain way too much useless information for beginners. I suggest you focus on learning what frames are, and why we use them to describe moves in fighting games. Then learn what start-up frames are, and what block advantage and hit advantage means.

The rest of the stuff about active frames, cancel advantage, collision boxes etc... are for nerds like me who want to know absolutely everything about the game engine. Not really necessary in my opinion.

Once you have a basic grasp of what frames are and how to read the in-game data, then you can start applying it to common situations such as Predator's low plasma loop.

 

[Ninjaguy446]

Maybe this will help you:

 

[Airvidal]

I know I can record the AI to do certain moves but I haven't fiddled around with that too much yet. I'll get on that soon.



Your name here looks familiar. I'm not sure if we've had matches on steam before or not.



Frame data I'm still understanding. By looking at that info, I know some moves require a big startup that leave them at a disadvantage and vice versa. I need more knowledge, here.



Yeah, don't abuse it



I'm sure if the lag was gone I'd have better matches. I'm certain of it. While the lag I experience is very minimal, I've learned to live with it.



LOL no! While it does upset me I see it as a learning point. The hardest players are the ones I learn the best from, but it does become frustrating after a while. I've kept players in the corner myself so I can't say I don't do the same. Blocking is good defense when you know the right moment to go in. I do it a lot.



I'll try



Yes, true. There's a guy I fought in KOTH tonight (he doesn't like me; never gives respect to me but does others lol). He was Ermac and I was Kitana. He would do an EX Teleport and I would block then go right into a kombo. He did it three times after I knocked him down but it's something I knew he was gonna do because he had meter. One thing I always look at is someone's meter because I know that once I knock them on the ground, they usually do a wakeup attack with armor, which I counter by blocking and then going in for a punish.



Yeah, once I get hit with that it's over because my player cannot recover fast enough to punish. I had to rage quit 'cuz I just couldn't get out of it. The +7 and 19 frame thing I still have to understand.



I'd like to but only have Steam at the moment. Maybe next year when a MKKE is out and I decide on a console. I see you have Steam as well but no MKX.

Yeah bro, with the reputation the PC version has I won't be getting it any time soon...

 

[CrimsonShadow]

The area I'm looking to improve upon is players who seem to just constantly beat your ass in the corner and you never have a fair shot at winning. That isn't fun to me and it really gets under my skin when it happens.

Start watching tournaments for sure. See what other people do in the same situation. Of course as with many things in fighting games, you want to reduce your chances of being put in that situation in the first place -- and that's where neutral game and stage/corner awareness comes in. But as for what to do when your inevitably get there, check out the best and practice what they do.

Your basic options are:
-Poke or a quick starter to interrupt offense and gain advantage
-Armor to interrupt offense
-Throw to reverse position
-Jump to cause offense to whiff
-Delay wakeup to cause offense to whiff and then do one of the above
etc.

You won't get a chance to do any of these unless you learn to block and pick your spots well, which means you need to understand other characters' offense. Watching high level play in tournaments and spending time playing other characters in practice mode will help with this immensely.

 

[evolution07]

This is a common pitfall for beginners to fighting games, and I suffered from it myself for 4 years in SF4 before I finally figured out what I was doing wrong.

Not everything is punishable; and as you get into higher levels of play, the vast majority of things that you encounter are actually not going to be punishable, because good players tend to play as safely as possible.

At that point you have to start thinking in terms of "what are my options", instead of "how do I punish this".

Learning how to read and understand frame data is important when you start examining your options in these types of situations.

There are guides you can read to get you started, such as this one: http://testyourmight.com/threads/how-to-read-understand-and-calculate-frame-data-in-mkx.49708/

Most of the guides I've read contain way too much useless information for beginners. I suggest you focus on learning what frames are, and why we use them to describe moves in fighting games. Then learn what start-up frames are, and what block advantage and hit advantage means.

The rest of the stuff about active frames, cancel advantage, collision boxes etc... are for nerds like me who want to know absolutely everything about the game engine. Not really necessary in my opinion.

Once you have a basic grasp of what frames are and how to read the in-game data, then you can start applying it to common situations such as Predator's low plasma loop.

Thank you for this. I will read the thread and make the best of it.

Maybe this will help you:

This is great! Live demos are helpful and has already helped me understand how to punish better.

Yeah bro, with the reputation the PC version has I won't be getting it any time soon...

It's gotten better. It's great offline but online still has some small troubles. It's nowhere near as bad when it first launched. I had to run the game in such a small resolution before, but now I can run it in 1600x900 with great performance, but have to enable frame smoothing because my PC is just below the recommended requirements for graphics.

Start watching tournaments for sure. See what other people do in the same situation. Of course as with many things in fighting games, you want to reduce your chances of being put in that situation in the first place -- and that's where neutral game and stage/corner awareness comes in. But as for what to do when your inevitably get there, check out the best and practice what they do.

Your basic options are:
-Poke or a quick starter to interrupt offense and gain advantage
-Armor to interrupt offense
-Throw to reverse position
-Jump to cause offense to whiff
-Delay wakeup to cause offense to whiff and then do one of the above
etc.

You won't get a chance to do any of these unless you learn to block and pick your spots well, which means you need to understand other characters' offense. Watching high level play in tournaments and spending time playing other characters in practice mode will help with this immensely.

I've watched SonicFox on the ESL tournament. Great player and he's helped me learn new things for sure. I wanted to sign up for the most recent tournament, but found I may not be ready just yet! IDK how many tournaments this game will have competitively, but if there are more I'd like to prepare for one. It's always been a dream of mine to partake in one. Even if it's not sponsored by WB or NRS, a fan tournament would be great fun and practice for me.