How to Read, Understand and Calculate Frame Data in MKX

Discussion in 'Strategy Zone' started by Eddy Wang, Apr 11, 2015.

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  1. Eddy Wang

    Eddy Wang Skarlet scientist

    PSN:
    eddywangmk
    If you're new into the world of advancing gaming, this might be a good way to start, also if everyone is to start fresh in MKX with no hidden or unfair advantage, this is something that everyone should know so they can know what to look for when they get their hands in the game.

    Be wary that frame data is not 100% correct at this point in the game, but that doesn't mean that the principle will not apply after the day 1 patch, on the contrary it will, more so when the data get corrected.

    Of course top players will take a huge advantage over this, but will help new guys to understand what's going on before start crying to nerf something.

    Without further delays, MKX runs at 60 frames per second, meaning that at ever 1 second in real time, 60 frames will run in the game.

    State 0, or Neutral state = Its a technical term in M.U.G.E.N or fighting games to define all stances from a fighting game, during the state 0 the character is free from any draw backs, it means the Player has the control over the character at that exact moment and he can block, attack move at any moment. So when the fight word fades, both characters starts at State 0.


    This is what you will see on the frame data screen:
    [​IMG]

    The MKX only gives you 6 options of Frame Data statistics so before i go any further into this i will explain first what each one of this statistic means, then i will explain something else that MK9 veterans might have noticed at this point.

    Start-Up: Means the time (in frames), the first active frame from an executed move (in other words the time it takes for the opponent to get hit by your normal, or special move instants after your press the button) takes to activate.
    • In MKX, the fastest normals are 5 frames startup, not 6 like in MK9
    Active: It means the time that move will remain active until it fades or hits anything that can be hit by it. (in other words, by this time you can't touch that move until the active frames fades, but armored moves will still beat regular active frames)
    • In MKX normals remain active from 1 to 13 depending of how powerfull they are, generally normals with longer active frames are also really unsafe on block or whiff.
    Recover: Its the time a normal special, even throws will take to return to the state 0, also known as the stance mode, so for this period of time that a move is recovering from being used, the one recovering can't block, or cancel it.
    • In MKX moves on whiff have a good chunk of recovery frames, be aware of what you put in the screen.
    Block advantage: Block advantage defines the time the defender has to stay on a blockstun, block advantage goes two ways, it can either be positive (+) which is advantage for the attacker, or it can be negative (-) which means advantage to the defender.
    • So if P1 string is -10 on block, it means that P1 is vulnerable for 10 frames at the instant his blockstun fades away, in this period of time P2 can input a 9f moves or lower to catch P1 before he has time to recover from this attack. This action is called Punish.
    • In MKX, there is a new propriety that allows any character to block on the last negative frame, so startup attacking frames that matches the same number of blockstun won't punish it, so 10f moves won't punish -10f of disadvantage.
    Hit Advantage: It the time P2 will take to return to the state 0 after getting hit.
    Cancel: Its the advantage given to the attacker when he cancels his move with another move.

    Now that we got all this out of the way let me explain this into a more deeper way.

    Some of you may or not have noticed that MKX doesn't offer Cancel advantage on Hit and Cancel advantage on block, but those are crucial if you want to understand the frametraps and links your opponent can or cannot do to you, that its not weird, it means that now you have to do some equations to find out cancel on hit and cancel on block.

    So how do you do that?

    Startup + active + recovery - Cancel
    This will give you the correct cancel that you can either sum it up to your hit stun, or block stun to have the correct cancel advantage. @huh
    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=428638611&insideModal=1

    Cancel advantage is one of the most important datas in the game, it can tell you if P1 strings is indeed a blockstring or just a frame trap.

    So what is a blockstring?
    Blockstring is when a move canceled into another move doesn't leave any gap between the cancel and startup frames, forcing you to block the whole thing during the process.

    How to find out if my opponent is doing a blockstring on me?

    The frame data for the combo section corresponds to each hit in the combo. It was also like this in Injustice.

    For example, Scorpion 123 string will initially be broken down into 12, and then it'll have 123 under it.

    For the 12 string, it'll say 6f startup, and is referring to the 2. For the 123 string it'll say 8f startup, and is referring to the 3.

    If you go on Injustice and look up Nightwing's 1F2 string, it'll say 15f startup. This is referring to the F2 in the string. Standing 1 is 11f startup so the whole string has a startup of 26f. @HeroesNZ

    In MKX almost all strings and normals can be canceled, and there are some that can't be canceled, lets look at the new Scorpion gravedigger (1,2,3) dial string:
    [​IMG]


    It used to be a 2 hits string (2, 1+2), now its a 3 hits string in MKX:
    Each one of part of this string has startup, active frames, recovery, block adv, hit adv and cancel adv. You want to find out if there is a gap on this string or if its a true blockstring, this is how you do it:

    Startup + Active + Recovery - Cancel
    Then you sum the result with the blockstun and compare with the next attack startup in line.

    The same principle can be applied into normals or strings canceled into specials or run cancels, if you know how long it takes to start and cancel a run, or special, and their next attack in line, you will be able to determinate the blockstun find the gap and defend yourself accordingly.

    Start MKX big, like an educated player.
     
    #1
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2015
    DDutchguy, Oonaugh, Misky and 115 others like this.
  2. As someone who has only ever vaguely understood this stuff this is really helpful. I will have to utilize it in game myself to really get it down, but thanks for posting this with such detail.
     
    #2
    Misky, KingJamez12, Indigoism and 4 others like this.
  3. _CHINOCUDEIRO_

    _CHINOCUDEIRO_ Machakabotones

    Just one thing:
    You say cancel - block adv = blockstun
    I think its cancel + block adv = blockstun
    In your second example: 16 cancel adv +(-10) block adv = 6 , if I use your formula it will be 16 -(-10)= 26
    Remember: -(-)= + ....... and +(-)= -
     
    #3
    True, RandomAlec, aldazo and 8 others like this.
  4. THTB

    THTB #IDoMachines

    XBL:
    x THTB x
    Steam:
    THTB614
    Good stuff.

    Probably best to say Cancel + Block/Hit for the cancel advantage, because you have it listed as subtracting lol. That would make the cancel advantage less (or more, depending on what the block/hit advantage is.
     
    #4
  5. Zyphox

    Zyphox What is going on guys, Ya Boi Zyphox here.

    PSN:
    Zyphox___
    XBL:
    Zyphox
    Steam:
    Zyphox_
    i dont have the game yet can you cancel block strings into dash or Run? meaning 1,2,3 xx dash or run?
     
    #5
    karaokelove likes this.
  6. Prinz

    Prinz watch?v=a8PEVV6tt14

    Something to consider
    start-up - vulnerable frames until first active frame (MK9 Kung Lao's spin - 5 frames)
    execution - vulnerable frames + first active frame (MK9 Kung Lao's spin - 6 frames)
     
    #6
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  7. Eddy Wang

    Eddy Wang Skarlet scientist

    PSN:
    eddywangmk
    Yes, damn numbers, they always tricked me in to something, i was feeling that something was off there, just wasn't sure what was, i will repair that right away.
     
    #7
  8. Prinz

    Prinz watch?v=a8PEVV6tt14

    Yeah, so that every character has NDCs :DOGE
     
    #8
  9. TheGabStandard

    TheGabStandard The anticipation is killing me
    Premium Supporter

    This is a great thread. I had good understanding on frame data but cancel advantage I found a bit tricky. Thank you very much for the info, I'm sure this will help a lot of players.
     
    #9
  10. Train

    Train Noob

    Steam:
    Train
    awesome ..thanks for this post
     
    #10
    Eddy Wang likes this.
  11. ZeZe

    ZeZe The smart stuff!

    Steam:
    Pro_zac
    Yep most helpful. Liked alot.

    The only thing that is still puzzling me is skipping FP, BP, FK, LK over 1, 2, 3, 4 which can be configured differently on pads. I never know if by 4 someone means LK or something else.
     
    #11
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2015
    Indigoism likes this.
  12. Eddy Wang

    Eddy Wang Skarlet scientist

    PSN:
    eddywangmk
    Is just simple math really, once you get it into your routine you will do some godlike stuff with it.
     
    #12
    karaokelove and TheGabStandard like this.
  13. A F0xy Grampa

    A F0xy Grampa Problem X Promotions
    Premium Supporter

    1 - FP
    2 - BP
    3 - FK
    4 - BK

    The reason we use 1 2 3 4 is so that its a universal language, regardless of button configuration or pad/stick of choice. It's sorta like tekken in that each button counts for 1 limb.

    So 4 will always mean BK, it doesn't matter what button it's mapped to on your pad/stick.
     
    #13
  14. The_REAL_xVAPORx

    The_REAL_xVAPORx smoke reset bot

    using scorpions standing 1 as an example, if it has an 8 frame startup why would the startup on his 123 string say something different? shouldn't it be the same startup as his standing 1?
     
    #14
  15. Eddy Wang

    Eddy Wang Skarlet scientist

    PSN:
    eddywangmk
    Its the same its not different, i broke down the string in 3 parts so you can see the block advantage and cancel advantage on each stage the string is happening, gravedigger is basically the last hit, or the 3rd hit of the 1, 2, 3 string, meaning its not a shoulder tackle anymore its a knee now.

    Also that is why as i advanced i colored the already passed stages with this color.
     
    #15
  16. ProudDisciple

    ProudDisciple Average at Best

    Thank u for breaking this down, its easy to understand and hopefully I can apply it into my gameplay.
     
    #16
  17. xxMKX_Rushxx

    xxMKX_Rushxx GR | Rush

    that was a good material..... keep it up bruh
     
    #17
  18. Gesture Required Ahead

    Gesture Required Ahead Get on that hook

    XBL:
    Mercsinn
    Steam:
    Mercsin
    Good write-up, the more ways new people get better, the better the experience will be for everyone
     
    #18
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  19. Scott The Scot

    Scott The Scot Where there is smoke, there is cancer.

    Wonderful job, I never knew how to use cancel advantage - the only thing I knew was really seeing if something is punishable from the startup and block advantage. Thanks Eddie! :)
     
    #19
  20. Fractured_Shadow

    Fractured_Shadow Really likes to throw things at you.

    Not every string can be canceled into with a run, but yes there are NDC with the run mechanic. This is how you will be able to have continuous pressure.

    The downside is that you can only run cancel 3 times before you exhaust your stamina and that can be VERY risky. Additionally backdashes have invincibiliy, so you risk being backdashed and blown up.

    Hope that helps.
     
    #20
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  21. Train

    Train Noob

    Steam:
    Train
    Sticky this post plz
     
    #21
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  22. ProudDisciple

    ProudDisciple Average at Best

    YES!!!!!
     
    #22
  23. The_REAL_xVAPORx

    The_REAL_xVAPORx smoke reset bot

    im not basing this off of what you said, im basing this off of the in game frame data. if you pulled up his 123 string in the menu, it will show a much slower startup than 8 frames, Ive seen this with many characters so far and I saw it with IGAU
     
    #23
  24. HeroesNZ

    HeroesNZ Baconlord's Billionaire Sugar Daddy

    PSN:
    HeroesNZ3
    The frame data for the combo section corresponds to each hit in the combo. It was also like this in Injustice.

    For example, Scorpion 123 string will initially be broken down into 12, and then it'll have 123 under it.

    For the 12 string, it'll say 6f startup, and is referring to the 2. For the 123 string it'll say 8f startup, and is referring to the 3.

    If you go on Injustice and look up Nightwing's 1F2 string, it'll say 15f startup. This is referring to the F2 in the string. Standing 1 is 11f startup so the whole string has a startup of 26f.
     
    #24
  25. KuralKing

    KuralKing Never forget The Great Ferra/Torr Scare!

    Steam:
    kuralking
    I understood nothing bu thanks for the heads up! :) :oops:
     
    #25
    Indigoism and Tony at Home like this.

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