Menu
By:
Filters
What's new

Help Me Understand, Please

UPR_Nova

UPR_Nova

Apprentice
Reading some of the posts about Supergirl makes me feel like she's bottom 5, yet I play against one almost daily and we battle back and forth. Multiple question post inbound and please forgive me if it's long winded.

Specifically, what is the issue with the gap in d1xx breath? Isn't that typical for pokes in this game and series? I could be wrong as I didn't play IGAU but, at least for Supergirl, isn't the meta d1 into nothing to block a poke that will punish that gap and hopefully the opponent doesn't hit/block confirm that poke and you blow it up?

The string that starts high and is plus on block shouldn't really be used after a jump in because I'm pretty sure you can OS a poke on block to stuff it. If managed properly, it can be used in pressure but obviously can't be mindlessly tossed out. What's the issue with that string?

Why is the mid, overhead string mixed with d1 so bad? I've heard issues with damage but doesn't it compare with typical Supergirl damage? And why would you utilize that outside of the corner anyway? If you're animation hunting, doesn't that leave you open for sustained pressure?

Why do I feel like most Supergirl players fish for breath and play her like Superman? Superman is built for f23 into breath but Supergirl doesn't revolve around continued, well sustained pressure. She seems like a character that harasses, annoys and frustrates the opponent into bad decisions. Why not play her extremely solid and utilize great defense (mostly on the player but Supergirl has good defensive options in my opinion) accompanied with great footsies (on the player but Supergirl has GREAT options for that) instead of fishing for a MB breath confirm? Sure, some characters get it easier but if that's what you want, then pick up the character that gets it easier. Check an opponents misplaced dash attempt with d1 breath for full combo or laser. Punish distance creation from the opponent with her (what feels like at times) full screen, shin splitter into full combo. Throw more.

Now, without complaining, please explain to me what in the hell I'm missing. Before the hatred comes in, I don't post to be an ass unless it's REALLY obvious. I legitimately don't understand the issues. I don't play the character but I sure enough get harassed by one and it's not fun.

Edit: before the swamp thing stuff gets out of control.
 
Last edited:
Juggs

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
I don't know about every SG player, but I have never seen or heard anyone claim she's bottom 5. That doesn't really matter though. People focus waaay too much on tiers/lists. They aren't nearly as meaningful as the community believes they are.
 
UPR_Nova

UPR_Nova

Apprentice
I've not claimed that anyone said she's bottom 5 here or anywhere else.The posts I constantly read bring about the perception she is trash. I'm not implying anything above.
 
Juggs

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Okay. The best thing I can do is copy/paste my response to this that I've had to post several times now.

Firstly, Supergirl isn't a horrible bottom tier character. But you don't need to be bottom tier in order to have problems or be unviable for tournament play. Here's what she struggles with:

- Very hard to build meter. Her projectile is a trait and only builds a tiny bit of meter on hit/block.

- Her strings aren't great. Only true plus string is 112 that is +2 but it has a gap in it, starts high, and has virtually no range. It is easily duckable so it's kinda pointless to use. Her best string, B12 while it has good range and is good in footsies and whiff punishing is -11 on block, even B123 which the 3 can't be special canceled, is -9 on block. Her B2, 1+3 is her only overhead, and it's -35 on block. F2 is probably the better option but only because there's no gap between it hitting on block canceling into breath. You still need meter to make it safe, mind you.

- She needs meter she hardly ever has to do mediocre damage. There are specific scenarios where she can get decent damage though. Such as background bounce combos, ending with MB trait, and getting a lucky JI3 combo starter in the corner.

- Only way to make her strings safe is MB Ice Breath, which is -5. Regular Ice Breath is -20 while the extended version is -18. The reason MB Breath isn't that great is because while it does make her strings safe, she rarely has the bar for it. And wasting a resource as valuable as her meter really hurts her.

- Her teleport is decent, but has 35 frames of startup, and is -24 on block. MB version is -25. For a lot of the quicker projectiles, she has to read them instead of react. If she reads it wrong and you block, full combo punish. The risk heavily outweighs the reward. Although if it does land, she gets her best damage from it aside from the corner and background bounce stuff.

- Her restand string is +0, so kinda pointless to do. Only good in very specific situations. You're much better off going for a HDK and doing F3 mixups. It also starts high, so only ever used as a combo ender and there's much better options.

- Her wakeup is also not horrible, but is -29 on block. Can't combo off of it unless your opponent is in the corner and you MB it. And it's not advancing, it goes straight up. If blocked, you're screwed. This isn't a big negative for her but worth noting. Also, can only MB on hit, if blocked it's all ogre.


She has a lot of strengths as well, obviously.

- Great D2
- Great corner mixups
- Good at zoning, counter zoning and anti zoning
- One of the best J1's in the game
- D1 is great and is a low
- Great mobility
- Her F3, as far as I'm aware, is the only F3 where you can alter the distance of it. Good for KD mixups.

She's not a horrible character. But when you acknowledge a character that is mid tier has glaring issues, you're a scumbag downplayer. If the character is mid tier you should never ever point out that characters flaws. As F0xy said in the other thread, in NRS games, being mid tier doesn't mean the character is necessarily "good" or as I said, tournament viable. She's really a fun character to play, which is why I and others are passionate about her problems.
 
RNLDRGN

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
Super Girl is nowhere near Swamp Thing. I'd say she is right in the middle with Green Lantern, Firestorm, and Fate.

Swamp Thing lol

 
UPR_Nova

UPR_Nova

Apprentice
Juggs said:
Okay. The best thing I can do is copy/paste my response to this that I've had to post several times now.

Firstly, Supergirl isn't a horrible bottom tier character. But you don't need to be bottom tier in order to have problems or be unviable for tournament play. Here's what she struggles with:

- Very hard to build meter. Her projectile is a trait and only builds a tiny bit of meter on hit/block.

- Her strings aren't great. Only true plus string is 112 that is +2 but it has a gap in it, starts high, and has virtually no range. It is easily duckable so it's kinda pointless to use. Her best string, B12 while it has good range and is good in footsies and whiff punishing is -11 on block, even B123 which the 3 can't be special canceled, is -9 on block. Her B2, 1+3 is her only overhead, and it's -35 on block. F2 is probably the better option but only because there's no gap between it hitting on block canceling into breath. You still need meter to make it safe, mind you.

- She needs meter she hardly ever has to do mediocre damage. There are specific scenarios where she can get decent damage though. Such as background bounce combos, ending with MB trait, and getting a lucky JI3 combo starter in the corner.

- Only way to make her strings safe is MB Ice Breath, which is -5. Regular Ice Breath is -20 while the extended version is -18. The reason MB Breath isn't that great is because while it does make her strings safe, she rarely has the bar for it. And wasting a resource as valuable as her meter really hurts her.

- Her teleport is decent, but has 35 frames of startup, and is -24 on block. MB version is -25. For a lot of the quicker projectiles, she has to read them instead of react. If she reads it wrong and you block, full combo punish. The risk heavily outweighs the reward. Although if it does land, she gets her best damage from it aside from the corner and background bounce stuff.

- Her restand string is +0, so kinda pointless to do. Only good in very specific situations. You're much better off going for a HDK and doing F3 mixups. It also starts high, so only ever used as a combo ender and there's much better options.

- Her wakeup is also not horrible, but is -29 on block. Can't combo off of it unless your opponent is in the corner and you MB it. And it's not advancing, it goes straight up. If blocked, you're screwed. This isn't a big negative for her but worth noting. Also, can only MB on hit, if blocked it's all ogre.


She has a lot of strengths as well, obviously.

- Great D2
- Great corner mixups
- Good at zoning, counter zoning and anti zoning
- One of the best J1's in the game
- D1 is great and is a low
- Great mobility
- Her F3, as far as I'm aware, is the only F3 where you can alter the distance of it. Good for KD mixups.

She's not a horrible character. But when you acknowledge a character that is mid tier has glaring issues, you're a scumbag downplayer. If the character is mid tier you should never ever point out that characters flaws. As F0xy said in the other thread, in NRS games, being mid tier doesn't mean the character is necessarily "good" or as I said, tournament viable. She's really a fun character to play, which is why I and others are passionate about her problems.
Click to expand...
I appreciate the reply. I don't agree with the 112 stuff. Just because a string is a high doesn't mean it's unusable, especially when the second hit of that string comes out as fast as it does. Only string that I can come up with that's KIND OF comparable is Scarecrow 123. It starts high as well but it's far from unusable.
 
UPR_Nova

UPR_Nova

Apprentice
I'm gonna have to edit my post because I'm sensing that people will start to come in saying that I'm comparing her to Swamp Thing seriously.
 
neveradestroyer

neveradestroyer

Kombatant
Nope!. In this game.. Mobility, projectiles and speed > raw damage. How the fuck are You going to catch Supergirl ?. You have to be on watch for Her: Projectiles, air projectiles , air dash, the teleport (not counting safe ex freeze) and Her ambiguous cross-ups . What do They want?. To Her to hit like a truck too?. That's asking to Her to be literally broken.
 
Tweedy

Tweedy

Champion
Most people on this site who talk about balance do not play on a level where balance is relevant. They just think/know that at high level their character is underwhelming, so when they lose, they blame that instead of themselves. Plus it's fun to talk about balance.

Supergirl can win. If someone is a better player than you, they're going to win regardless of the character, at most levels of play.
 
Temptress

Temptress

Edenian Empress
Why is the Black Adam main who struggles against Supergirl and tries his best to upplay her passive aggressively liking all the "Supergirl is fine" posts, lmao.
 
UPR_Nova

UPR_Nova

Apprentice
Juggs so far has given the only real retort, yet I still don't see anything crippling in her kit. Quite frankly, any kind of buff could potentially put her over the top in my opinion.
 
Juggs

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
topper2ath said:
I appreciate the reply. I don't agree with the 112 stuff. Just because a string is a high doesn't mean it's unusable, especially when the second hit of that string comes out as fast as it does. Only string that I can come up with that's KIND OF comparable is Scarecrow 123. It starts high as well but it's far from unusable.
Click to expand...
I didn't say unusable. I said it's kinda pointless unless it's for specific situations, like meaty timing. Also if they don't know the MU, lol.
 
SaSSolino

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
Temptress said:
Why is the Black Adam main who struggles against Supergirl and tries his best to upplay her passive aggressively liking all the "Supergirl is fine" posts, lmao.
Click to expand...
Because I don't really want to start another argument with the SG community. Nothing would come out of it, so I limit myself to very subtle likes and here and there jokes.

Also I don't see what I play has to do with SG, besides I prefer Cyborg now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.