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Hellspawn (v3) Discussion

SparkySanders

Unga bunga practitioner
Yeah just noticed the distance will cause the first hit to whiff if you’re further away, close having 4 hits to far only having 3.
 

DixieFlatline78

Everyone Has A Path
I ran like 20/30 matches with this variation and I could not tell what it did. Especially when you hear that it's possible to fuzzy the entire mixup. The low chain doesnt come out if you dont perfectly time the crouching window and its punishable on block

It's so high risk for not a whole lot of reward.
 
I decided to main this variation for spawn because his stance and command throw seem unique. I'm having trouble finding a good setup off his command throw midscreen. the spacing after his throw is a bit awkward since it leaves you way outside of his forward 2 range. any one have any ideas? and what is the optimal use for his lethal stance mid attack?
i can't anti air unless its a read and it doesn't combo.
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
Ask and you shall receive:
Ok a few things...
  1. Incredible video
  2. I was also under the impression that his gameplay would revolve around his command grab (which got me excited) but seeing the amount of variety this character has as you've presented, makes me excited to play him even more.
  3. Your video really puts in perspective how to approach his gameplay style and that helps so many people you have no idea (me included)
  4. Im gonna make a request that this video gets hidden from the world. Lets keep this beast for ourselves and not allow it to get nerfed because of some ppl complaining that he keeps resetting neutral. Im thinking putting it in a thread called <Rules of conduct on forum> something inconspicuous.
 

Jeffrey Wolf

YouTube: Jeffrey B Wolf
Super cool to see how well the video was received--thanks, all!

And, ha, yeah, sorry for giving this sort of stuff away about the character. Feel free to "hide" it as needed, lol.

NotLiuKang, yup, if you're using V2 you can end blocked strings in his projectile to create some mind games since the MB of it is safe. The first projectile is a high though and so I don't think it always jails (haven't fully tested). So, depending on the string and the level of the opponent, you may not always use it, but that's not too bad since the primary strings you'll use with Spawn aren't punishable.

CasualPlayer, after hitting with command grab, you'll either want to zone or dash in and attack, usually based on your bar and the opponent's tendencies on wakeup. His stance should be used to end your strings that hit for max damage mid screen and corner combos, or you should use it in neutral to footsie and cancel, or when the opponent really isn't expecting it cancel it after you string is blocked for continued pressure.

And Kindred, thanks for the kind words. Made my day!
 

DixieFlatline78

Everyone Has A Path
Well it gave me some good perspective on what the character does, and I appreciate that. The issue I'm seeing is that creating safety and resetting to neutral doesnt seem to be in service of a whole lot. Theres a lot of characters who can do this, Johnny, Noob, Kabal, Sub-Zero, but they have a lot more to play with in addition to that. They've got damage, they can launch off every string, they have better actual pressure, and their zoning is much more rewarding outside of keeping them out. The KBs and unbreakable damage are great, I'm not seeing any sort of X-Factor with him outside of the war club. Invisibility is gimmicky, stance AA is cool but AA jab seems more rewarding for most characters and the low is whatever to me

You get more tools to keep them at arms length tho so I respect people who see that as strong. Like F21, 34, etc. It's like if Kotal's normals were faster and in service of keep out. He gives me some Yamazaki vibes. I think it's just a difference in styles we have.
 

Jeffrey Wolf

YouTube: Jeffrey B Wolf
Well it gave me some good perspective on what the character does, and I appreciate that. The issue I'm seeing is that creating safety and resetting to neutral doesnt seem to be in service of a whole lot. Theres a lot of characters who can do this, Johnny, Noob, Kabal, Sub-Zero, but they have a lot more to play with in addition to that. They've got damage, they can launch off every string, they have better actual pressure, and their zoning is much more rewarding outside of keeping them out. The KBs and unbreakable damage are great, I'm not seeing any sort of X-Factor with him outside of the war club. Invisibility is gimmicky, stance AA is cool but AA jab seems more rewarding for most characters and the low is whatever to me

You get more tools to keep them at arms length tho so I respect people who see that as strong. Like F21, 34, etc. It's like if Kotal's normals were faster and in service of keep out. He gives me some Yamazaki vibes. I think it's just a difference in styles we have.
The difference is the D1 into special resetting neutral. Most other "safe" specials can't do this like Seeing Double's Shadow Slide, or The Spins Gas Blast, or Avalanche's Ice Stomp, or Raijin's Staff Slam (don't know all the names, lol). The only ones that can are Raijin D1 into Spark but you have to have Spark charged, Cetrion into Rockwall but there is a gap in the amp that is full combo punishable or can be flawless blocked, or Johnny's Uppercut which he now has to spend two bars to make safe on block. So, the only other character that could do a D1 into a safe special is Johnny and he got nerfed for it and that's what Spawn V3 now has which is insanely awesome. Obviously, there are other differences in the characters too, but as it is right now there is no other character that can reset neutral with a 7 frame mid for only one bar.
 

SparkySanders

Unga bunga practitioner
The invisibility scaling was a good idea imo, would have made the fella rather broken. It’s only good to go invisible to set up bf2 kb, getting 39% if that combo hits is worth it. Any other time and even while hitting the kb I think it’s important to save the bar of defensive meter and only feather to interact button to cash in on the damage.
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
The difficulty im finding with this variation so far is punishing. Because of his rather slow startups, different moves require different starters to punish.

Unlike my other characters that allow me to punish 99% of punishable specials in the game with a single mid, it feels like depending on the character and the special he blocks, he might be able to go for B1 in some cases or 34 in others, etc. Making his punishes not very strong.

For example, against Jade's kick, you can only really punish it with 34~DB4B or 34~BF2. Whereas against scorpion's teleport, you can punish with B12 for more damage.
 
The mixup is whether you'll do b12, which is a launching overhead, or b1~bf2, which will catch them if they're stand-blocking. However, if the opponent just blocks low and releases low when they see the overhead come out, they can block all options pretty consistently.
I'm having an extremely hard time fuzzy guarding this mixup, especially if they amplify the low. My reactions suck so reacting to the OH is hard
 

DixieFlatline78

Everyone Has A Path
I'm having an extremely hard time fuzzy guarding this mixup, especially if they amplify the low. My reactions suck so reacting to the OH is hard
The overhead is 21 frames, which is extremely hard to react to, and impossible online. But it's more about timing your blocking pattern. The low comes out in 14 frames, the overhead 21, the command grab in 26, and the stance low in 28. So the idea is that you have a seven frame window to block low then high, then you have a five frame window to go low again.

As for the low, you really only have to react to it coming out. It takes him a while longer to pull the chain up so you get a bigger window to react and block it.

It's hard to do, but if you can learn how to do it you get rid of a particularly nasty gimmick and can focus on playing the opponent rather than getting coin flipped to death.
 
This feels like a novelty variation for a mid tier character. This is my prediction. V3 is basically swamp thing from I2 but minus the damage and set ups. Also converting off anti airs feels genuinely broken, like the recovery from S1 or S3 or even D4 allow for no follow up. No other character has this problem I don't think?? Also with all the wonky issues this game has catching an opponent in the air with b12 is kinda worthless, or at least extremely tight to confirm/combo off of. NRS seems terrified of their own shadow, and while they played it safe with MK11 gameplay in general they really, reeeeaaallly played it safe with spawn. Landing the command grab puts them at a distance with almost no follow up. What other command grab in the game sends them practically full screen? And blocking low completely nullifies this variation.

That said I'm still playing it because spawn is so goddamn cool. These are just some of my frustrations. I still have success vs people who don't realize V3 has the mix or at least aren't use to it. And my hope for this variation tho is that with staggers and db4 uu cancels and frame advantage trickery i can overwhelm my opponent. Mostly tho I have success hanging back and zoning and whiff punishing with b1 combo or s34 fierball. BF3 on roll away is the only real dirt this variation has imo and im still training myself to do it.
 

DeftMonk

Noob
Im putting my best into v1, may do a write up.
Did you stick with it? I was using it too but when I tried v2 I noticed almost the same gameplan I was doing with v1 was just getting hella more mileage. The main thing I liked about v1 was using 3 bf1 as a keep out poke at a certain range. If they jumped forward they got a full juggle from the guns... if they did a normal into 3 u can amplify bf1 on reaction (even tho it just clips their head) and if they stayed out 3 recovers quite quickly also there is the threat of 34 so as long as you mix it up people are scared to do anything when you whiff. F4 on hit jails into standning 1 (and 2 at the right range) which sets up for easy hit confirm and 11 is +2 on block. The low parry KB is also kinda nifty vs certain chars who tend to use d3 as their go to turn stealing poke (lao/shang etc) or chars who like to use d4 a lot (frost/johnny).