Health values matter in competitive mode

[Crimson Panther]

No it isn't -___- Look at the percentages. All out of order. Percentage values are the only "real" numbers to go by because it shows the how much health is actually being taken away from the character

I'm sorry it's sorted by highest health to lowest...?

Is it really too complicated to look at the percentages that are colored and in parentheses beside each group?

 

[Akromaniac27]

I'm sorry it's sorted by highest health to lowest...?

Is it really too complicated to look at the percentages that are colored and in parentheses beside each group?

Assuming that its a "tier list" or the intention of the thread was to order highest HP to lowest but for what purpose? To just show the HP everyone can see in the game anyways?

Its being shown on the post itself that just because a HP value is 1400, it doesn't mean they take less damage, so I personally don't understand why they're at the top. All in all, I don't get the purpose of the order of the list when HP values fall in a certain order if you're trying to make their values relevant, and it isn't even in that order on the post.

 

[Crimson Panther]

Assuming that its a "tier list" or the intention of the thread was to order highest HP to lowest but for what purpose? To just show the HP everyone can see in the game anyways?

Its being shown on the post itself that just because a HP value is 1400, it doesn't mean they take less damage, so I personally don't understand why they're at the top. All in all, I don't get the purpose of the order of the list when HP values fall in a certain order if you're trying to make their values relevant, and it isn't even in that order on the post.

Ok, I see your problem. You're putting your definition of "tier list" into it and trying argue it's relevance to me?

Alright, tier list doesn't mean best to worst in this case. It's each HP-DEF group. The point of it was to show how much damage they take. Not putting each tier in the order by that damage.

You're picking a very strange thing to get upset about. Would you like me to make an edit post putting them in order just for you?

 

[RevetLeafing]

I dont get it. Is the point of this video that the same combos do different damage to different characters? If so, its because of the defense stat. Characters with high health have lower defense stats, and vice versa, which generally evens out most of the cast in the health department. I thought this was common knowledge at this point. Unless this video is about something else entirely.

Some people are new to the game.

 

[Jynks]

Did the developers not officially explain the health system to the players?

what's to explain?

It is all the "gear system"... characters have their own default health, and defense and damage... think of them as all wearing "default gear". This is nothing new. SF4 was like this for example. At least in the idea of different health values and damage values. In IJ2, there are also different defense values.

 

[Akromaniac27]

Ok, I see your problem. You're putting your definition of "tier list" into it and trying argue it's relevance to me?

Alright, tier list doesn't mean best to worst in this case. It's each HP-DEF group. The point of it was to show how much damage they take. Not putting each tier in the order by that damage.

You're picking a very strange thing to get upset about. Would you like me to make an edit post putting them in order just for you?

Lol no problem at all here or even arguing. I'm just trying to understand what that posts relevance is when nothing of it applies to in game, such as defense stats, and the damage illustrated isn't in a comprehensive order. Or the fact that like 4-5 other threads have been made regarding the actual topic at hand.

I already know the order of how it falls so to me it doesn't remotely matter. I was trying to understand how it helps anyone else

 

[Crimson Panther]

Lol no problem at all here or even arguing. I'm just trying to understand what that posts relevance is when nothing of it applies to in game, such as defense stats, and the damage illustrated isn't in a comprehensive order. Or the fact that like 4-5 other threads have been made regarding the actual topic at hand.

I already know the order of how it falls so to me it doesn't remotely matter. I was trying to understand how it helps anyone else

It does have defensive stats. If you actually look at it you can see the higher the HP the lower the defense and given the difference between the two results in a higher percentage. And the relevance is what you get out of it. It's just a list of all HP-DEF tiers (or "groups" if you prefer), the characters within them, and the damage and percentage an example combo does.

It really seems you're just obnoxiously trying to argue something because...reasons I guess?

But I'll make an edit post organizing them in percentage order. Just for you.

 

[chores]

how does the % healed or taken away by the clash system interact with these values?

 

[Akromaniac27]

It does have defensive stats. If you actually look at it you can see the higher the HP the lower the defense and given the difference between the two results in a higher percentage. And the relevance is what you get out of it. It's just a list of all HP-DEF tiers (or "groups" if you prefer), the characters within them, and the damage and percentage an example combo does.

It really seems you're just obnoxiously trying to argue something because...reasons I guess?

But I'll make an edit post organizing them in percentage order. Just for you.

Lmao sorry I offended you? I already made my own post on this thread and made another thread as well as explaining in the video linked, the order. Don't know how else to get it through to you that your list doesnt affect me one way or another. My bad that asking how it's going to help anyone else and/or in the longrun after already explaining the Stat relevance doesn't exist, is such an issue.

Already tried to explain the defense and HP relevance and how it still doesn't correlate or line up, but you do you

 

[ChaosTheory]

what's to explain?

It is all the "gear system"... characters have their own default health, and defense and damage... think of them as all wearing "default gear". This is nothing new. SF4 was like this for example. At least in the idea of different health values and damage values. In IJ2, there are also different defense values.

Apparently there's something to explain because only 4 guys on earth seem to have deciphered this shit (with different conclusions, btw). The rest don't know and don't care what's going on.

And I brought up SF in this thread already. That's simple... Zangief has more health than Ryu because 1200 is greater than 1000 (or whatever).

Doesn't seem to be the case in Injustice. And then you have Clash to factor in. Plenty to explain in my estimation.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

We could go the Guilty Gear route and have a 3 pronged system involving a RISC gauge that scales damage up or down based on a PER MOVE BASIS (every move has its own on hit and block risc values modifiers), have a guts rating (more damage scaling, up and down) and a defensive stat itself, which again, is more damage scaling, up and down. Some of this is per move, some is per combo, some is per health % at the start of a combo, some is effected by blocking before being opened up.. it is it's special corner of "wtf will I do if I land this" hell.

NRS's system isn't particularly elegant and small differences can make a huge impact (we've all seen tournament runs live and die on a pixel) but I just don't know a good way to list universal damage/% values unless we make some kind of calculator for each character, so you can do combo on, say, Superman (who I use) and it does 400 damage.. plug that into a calculator and choose a character and it spits out the damage to that character and the % of that character's life bar... Assuming this all happen as a whole...

Ie, let's say we take two identical combos on Supes. Identical in damage that is. One is say, I dunno, 8 hits for 350 damage, one is 14 hits for 350 damage... Does the defense stat effect these differently? Or will the same two combos always net the same damage number, even if that actual number changes based on the character?

If it does, then optimal combos could differ depending on who you're fighting. Maybe not enough to matter, but like I said, tournament runs live and die by a pixel pretty often.

 

[PharaohLite]

Some people are new to the game.

thats true, my bad.

 

[PharaohLite]

Also, how did an innocent thread like this devolve into toxicity so quickly? God damn.

 

[Raiderhorn]

Defense has nothing to do with anything, neither does HP necessarily or any other stat for that matter. Its as simple as everyone does the "same" damage, but based on HP, it determines who takes what.

Coincidentally, all 1250 HP characters have 1350 def, thereby taking the same damage. Hmmmm..... maybe the def stat does matter.

 

[Akromaniac27]

Coincidentally, all 1250 HP characters have 1350 def, thereby taking the same damage. Hmmmm..... maybe the def stat does matter.

Wtf lol? Everyone sharing the same HP shares the same stats either way. Doesn't mean anything