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Health values matter in competitive mode

Scoot Magee

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash

Video courtesy of Tsuuna. I did not find this.

Some characters can take more damage than others. This also affects clash as noted in another thread.
 
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chores

chores

bad at things
this would be pretty easy to reverse engineer since we have all the str/def/abil/health values for all characters. just need to test with the same normal and/or same special. or, to put it in more useful terms, rank all characters by how many d1's from Batman it takes to empty their lifebar (or something similar)
 
RNLDRGN

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
I tested some BnBs on Darkseid (1400 HP) vs some of the regular health characters (Bats/Supes) and found that not only do the larger health characters take more damage (as to be expected) but the % of damage seemed to differ by about 1-3%.

Not a huge difference, but it's worth further testing. I'm just not gonna do it lol.
 
PharaohLite

PharaohLite

Run Cancels Breh
I dont get it. Is the point of this video that the same combos do different damage to different characters? If so, its because of the defense stat. Characters with high health have lower defense stats, and vice versa, which generally evens out most of the cast in the health department. I thought this was common knowledge at this point. Unless this video is about something else entirely.
 
ChaosTheory

ChaosTheory

A fat woman came into the shoe store today...
Are the stats active in competitive mode? I thought people were saying that health points and stats only mattered in gear mode.
 
Scoot Magee

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Me and a lot of others were always under the impression that all characters had the same amount of health in competitive mode. Pretty sure it's bee like that in all other NRS games. If this is common knowledge then disregard this post.
 
Raiderhorn

Raiderhorn

White Lotus
This whole subject has an easy explanation. Let's go over the clash first.

Obviously, if say Darkseid with 1400 health clashes and gets 30% health back then he's going to get more health back then if Supergirl with 1100 health also gets 30%. You're getting the same portion but it's the portion of a bigger pie. Half of 4 is less than half of 100.

Now let's talk about the damage values.
Characters with more health when having a combo performed on them are going to have more health left over than someone with lower health. This is where damage %age is no longer a reliable 'indicator' of how much damage you're doing, you should be looking at the damage output itself. Now you factor in defensive values. Of course this going to change the amount of damage being done to characters, higher def = less damage taken. If we compare Batman and Cheetah with both def 1250, a given combo will do the same damage to both characters, but Batman will have a higher %age of health left over because he has 50 more health than Cheetah. You're simply trying to take the same portion but from a bigger pie.
Comparing Batman and Deadshot, both with def 1350 and health 1250, a given combo will do the same damage and both will have the same health remaining, taking the same portion from the same pie.

That's all there is to know about this subject. You have ranging def and health stats across the cast to add more depth. That's it. It's easy to understand but there is still surprisingly many who don't. Non competitive mode allows you to buff those stats further to your choosing, stats which lead to overpowered builds and values that are given due to RNG. I may have a piece of gear that gives me a strength buff of 470, but you may have one that gives 441. You may never get a piece of gear that gives 470 strength buff simply because of RNG, which is unfair.
 
chores

chores

bad at things
Raiderhorn said:
This whole subject has an easy explanation. Let's go over the clash first.

Obviously, if say Darkseid with 1400 health clashes and gets 30% health back then he's going to get more health back then if Supergirl with 1100 health also gets 30%. You're getting the same portion but it's the portion of a bigger pie. Half of 4 is less than half of 100.

Now let's talk about the damage values.
Characters with more health when having a combo performed on them are going to have more health left over than someone with lower health. This is where damage %age is no longer a reliable 'indicator' of how much damage you're doing, you should be looking at the damage output itself. Now you factor in defensive values. Of course this going to change the amount of damage being done to characters, higher def = less damage taken. If we compare Batman and Cheetah with both def 1250, a given combo will do the same damage to both characters, but Batman will have a higher %age of health left over because he has 50 more health than Cheetah. You're simply trying to take the same portion but from a bigger pie.
Comparing Batman and Deadshot, both with def 1350 and health 1250, a given combo will do the same damage and both will have the same health remaining, taking the same portion from the same pie.

That's all there is to know about this subject. You have ranging def and health stats across the cast to add more depth. That's it. It's easy to understand but there is still surprisingly many who don't. Non competitive mode allows you to buff those stats further to your choosing, stats which lead to overpowered builds and values that are given due to RNG. I may have a piece of gear that gives me a strength buff of 470, but you may have one that gives 441. You may never get a piece of gear that gives 470 strength buff simply because of RNG, which is unfair.
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do we know mathematically how defense works? if so we could come up with normalized values for characters defense + health.

on the same note if we knew how strength + ability worked we could normalize that and classify each characters offense and defense in an easier to understand way
 
zerosebaz

zerosebaz

What's the point of a random Krypt?
I hope they will consider tinker with the health and defense values when making balance changes. It would be a great way to buff/nerf characters without actually modifying their gameplay.
 
ChaosTheory

ChaosTheory

A fat woman came into the shoe store today...
Everybody having 100% health and a 30% is a 30% combo is a neat little package. Like MK.

But even in Street Fighter, with varying health points... dealing 300 damage is 300 damage. That's 30% on a 1000hp character or 25% on a 1200hp character, but it's still 300 damage. Not too complicated and can be used as a balancing tool.

I've played Injustice the past couple days, and if nothing else, it's just ugly.
 
Raiderhorn

Raiderhorn

White Lotus
chores said:
do we know mathematically how defense works? if so we could come up with normalized values for characters defense + health.

on the same note if we knew how strength + ability worked we could normalize that and classify each characters offense and defense in an easier to understand way
Click to expand...
Strength + Ability Power could not possibly be normalized with respect to the entire cast as each character has their own unique move set and combos do different damage scaling. You'd have to analyze it character by character. Maybe that's what you were saying and I'm just misinterpreting it or something
 
Akromaniac27

Akromaniac27

Ready to lose your head?
Defense has nothing to do with anything, neither does HP necessarily or any other stat for that matter. Its as simple as everyone does the "same" damage, but based on HP, it determines who takes what.

All 1250 take the same damage, all 1100, and etc. Just because Darkseid has 1400HP, doesnt mean anything. The correlation between defense stats and health just isn't there and you're honestly wasting your time trying to find it. The order of who receives the least amount of damage to the most goes:

1250
1150
1200
1400
1100
1050

Dont know exactly why its in this order, but it is what it is. 1250HP characters take the least amount of damage, and 1050HP take the most.

The damage numbers of 654.89 or 349.65 or whatever are dummy numbers and mean nothing. Just divide that value into the character's HP and you get your "true" damage. You'll come to find there's only a 1-3% difference across the board on everything in the game but for some reason NRS decided to give us complex, large asf numbers for no reason at all.
 
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Akromaniac27

Akromaniac27

Ready to lose your head?
ChaosTheory said:
Everybody having 100% health and a 30% is a 30% combo is a neat little package. Like MK.

But even in Street Fighter, with varying health points... dealing 300 damage is 300 damage. That's 30% on a 1000hp character or 25% on a 1200hp character, but it's still 300 damage. Not too complicated and can be used as a balancing tool.

I've played Injustice the past couple days, and if nothing else, it's just ugly.
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Literally spent months since the games beta up to this day, trying to explain this, with numerous threads and videos (not only myself but others) and not only has it not been addressed by the developers, but a large portion of the community don't see it as an issue, don't understand for some reason whats being demonstrated and explained, and/or interpret damage the entirely wrong way, even in tournaments
 
Akromaniac27

Akromaniac27

Ready to lose your head?
RM Crimson Panther said:
https://testyourmight.com/threads/health-tier-list.64777/
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The list makes no sense and it's not even in the right order...You can easily see that regardless of how high a Defense stat is, it still makes no sense that that character still is taking more damage.

1250HP, 1350 Def vs 1150HP, 1450HP

You would think because of the 100 difference between HP and Def for both, it would cancel out so they receive the same, but they don't. Okay lets say defense is of stronger value so the 1150HP should take less, but they don't, they take more damage. Okay so then HP value matters then right? Well look at Darkseid.

All in all its so much more complicated than it needs to be when percentage is already in the game, in training room, and the damage differences are only between 1-3%
 
Crimson Panther

Crimson Panther

Noob
Akromaniac27 said:
The list makes no sense and it's not even in the right order...You can easily see that regardless of how high a Defense stat is, it still makes no sense that that character still is taking more damage.

1250HP, 1350 Def vs 1150HP, 1450HP

You would think because of the 100 difference between HP and Def for both, it would cancel out so they receive the same, but they don't. Okay lets say defense is of stronger value so the 1150HP should take less, but they don't, they take more damage. Okay so then HP value matters then right? Well look at Darkseid.

All in all its so much more complicated than it needs to be when percentage is already in the game, in training room, and the damage differences are only between 1-3%
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It is in order and does show the damages of the example combo to each group.

The system is needlessly complicated.
 
Akromaniac27

Akromaniac27

Ready to lose your head?
RM Crimson Panther said:
It is in order and does show the damages of the example combo to each group.

The system is needlessly complicated.
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No it isn't -___- Look at the percentages. All out of order. Percentage values are the only "real" numbers to go by because it shows the how much health is actually being taken away from the character
 
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