Question - Outlaw Frustrated Post

[24K]

Hi guys. Sorry for the long post below. It is extremely noisy here today and its screwing with my train of thought. So I typed out what I was thinking so I could try and concentrate more. I found out I’m confused about some stuff. Haha. I’m not going to edit it. So anybody who reads it be warned. It is somewhat of a ramble. There will be spelling and grammar mistakes. And it might not be relevant. Haha. It’s a little about not knowing frame data. And not knowing how to set up the great combos I can pull off. There may be something you can take from it and figure out what I am after. If you can congrats. I am way too irritated to clean it up. And I want others to experience that.

How do you initiate combos? I don’t understand frame data to well. But I think you would need to just pick the fastest start up move and cancel that into DB4. Which would leave the opponent dazed so you can lay on the combo of your choice. You would obviously need an attack that starts overhead and one that starts low. So that you can get them in any situation. Since the move is getting canceled into the DB4 you wouldn’t have to worry about the other frame data like active frames and recovery , right? That is pretty basic at its core. Some combos hit high and low in the same attack. So your opponent would have to know to block high and low. But what do you do in that situation. Do you just wait for them to attack you try and block what they attack with and punish with a fast attack and hope for the best. There has to be some technique to this that I am missing out. I can do some combos. And I can hold block. But I never know what to do when I release block and have to start my combo. I always seem to get beaten out. I generally play away from the opponent and come in when I want to get my combo off. But I want to start playing more aggressively and laying on more pressure. One other thing. I see people saying that the 112 is the best punisher. But wouldn’t 11B2 be better. Since it throws out the low as well and can be cancelled into the DB4. Sorry for all the rambling. I am trying to get my head around the frame data thing. I get that a move is calculated as start up plus active plus recovery. That’s the amount of frames it would take to do a move and return back to zero so you can start another move. But I don’t get the cancel frame data. I have noticed that a cancel frame data of 0 means it cant be cancelled into anything. Unless I am just not able to do it. But I read that your meant to take the SU+Active+Recovery, then minus the cancel frame data and that is the actual amount of frames it takes to do the move if you cancel into something. Seems easy enough. But what would you do with that information. Because if you land the hit and cancel into your combo starter it doesn’t really matter. So it still seems all you need to worry about is how fast you get the move out to beat out what ever your opponent is throwing back at you. It seems that the most important information will be the block and hit advantage. And the block and hit stun. You would want to make sure that your opponent is in a state where they cant attack back and you are in a state where you can attack faster. Of course that’s where the frame data knowledge comes in and I still cant figure out the best way to come out of blocking and attack back.

 

[QUAN-FUSION]

Abuse low pokes.

 

[stamatis]

OK,you punish with 11db4,211db4 and the rest it's up to you,BUT......speaking for my self,when you main EB,you can't wait for the opponent's mistake,be aggressive all the time!

 

[tatterbug4]

Uhmm. This might be irrelevant but forgive me because I skimmed through your post here so this is what I got.

If your being pressured change the course of battle with a poke. Some pokes have more hit advantage than others. Meaning you can usually start your offensive off of a poke. Because your at advantage and they have to eat what ever you do to them... Or attempt to avoid it.

But your not always going to get offense going with a poke of course. Your offense comes from footsies/mix ups. If your character has a long range normal or special you can use that to get a combo/whatever off of it from abusing it's range/speed or (whatever is good about it most characters have a few of these good normals/specials)

Mix ups are generally the easiest way to get combos out. With the way mkx works. Most characters have a high and a low (I'm not going into detail if you don't have one) which means whenever you can get your opponent in position to eat a mix up they'll have to eat a 50/50. You want to be at advantage from jump ins or pokes or something like that (unless your using it for a footsie tool) to utilize your mix ups.

Now of course you can catch your opponents off guard and do what you think is best sometimes.

Usually with most characters. A blocked string or move from your opponent leaves you at advantage. This allows you to start offense or you may even punish him with a poke or combo.

Also knock downs in this game are important. They automatically start off with you (assuming you knocked them Down) at advantage and you can do whatever you want to them but watch out they can wake up or several other mind games can happen that can flip the battle around.




Sorry for the long post and I hope this helps because it took forever to type this.
And sorry for all errors in my post (of their is any) I stayed up all night and I'm probably not very clear.

 

[24K]

When it comes to the low pokes. How do I use the frame data to work out what is best. Do I want a high hit advantage and a low block advantage. Or is it the other way around. I think one of my problems is knowing how much time I have after doing a low poke before I can initiate a combo. I worry that if I do a low poke and stand straight up and attack I will get hit. I have noticed I block way to much. When I watch others play they block an attack then fire straight back. Thats what I have found Stamatis. I am way to passive with this character.

 

[tatterbug4]

Uhmm. This might be irrelevant but forgive me because I skimmed through your post here so this is what I got.

If your being pressured change the course of battle with a poke. Some pokes have more hit advantage than others. Meaning you can usually start your offensive off of a poke. Because your at advantage and they have to eat what ever you do to them... Or attempt to avoid it.

But your not always going to get offense going with a poke of course. Your offense comes from footsies/mix ups. If your character has a long range normal or special you can use that to get a combo/whatever off of it from abusing it's range/speed or (whatever is good about it most characters have a few of these good normals/specials)

Mix ups are generally the easiest way to get combos out. With the way mkx works. Most characters have a high and a low (I'm not going into detail if you don't have one) which means whenever you can get your opponent in position to eat a mix up they'll have to eat a 50/50. You want to be at advantage from jump ins or pokes or something like that (unless your using it for a footsie tool) to utilize your mix ups.

Now of course you can catch your opponents off guard and do what you think is best sometimes.

Usually with most characters. A blocked string or move from your opponent leaves you at advantage. This allows you to start offense or you may even punish him with a poke or combo.

Also knock downs in this game are important. They automatically start off with you (assuming you knocked them Down) at advantage and you can do whatever you want to them but watch out they can wake up or several other mind games can happen that can flip the battle around.




Sorry for the long post and I hope this helps because it took forever to type this.
And sorry for all errors in my post (of their is any) I stayed up all night and I'm probably not very clear.

This is for characters in general not EB in particular but your going to be very offensive with him

 

[24K]

Thanks tatterbug4. So a high hit advantage means that if my attack lands I have an advantage to land the next attack. What do I make of the block advantage. Do I want it like -5 or -15. They way I seem to understand it is that my high attack advantage creates the gap for me to get in with something. And the block advantage is a bad thing. So -5 is better than -15. I dont know when it comes into play though. Does it mean I have those many frames before I can attack if the opponent blocked my first attack.

 

[Braindead]

Forget recovery, active, cancel frames.

For a beginner you need to focus only on 2 things: Start up frames, and block advantage.

Start up tells you how fast your move comes out, the smaller number, the better (faster).
Block advantage tells you how many frames of advantage you have over your opponent when they block your move. The larger the number, the better. Remember that negative numbers, the bigger the number after the negative sign means the number is actually smaller, so -15 is smaller than -5, and therefore -5 is better. If your move had a positive block advantage number, then it's a great move.

Work with those 2 numbers first, figure out your combos and once you really start understanding frame data you can move on to cancel advantage, recovery, and so on.

 

[tatterbug4]

Thanks tatterbug4. So a high hit advantage means that if my attack lands I have an advantage to land the next attack. What do I make of the block advantage. Do I want it like -5 or -15. They way I seem to understand it is that my high attack advantage creates the gap for me to get in with something. And the block advantage is a bad thing. So -5 is better than -15. I dont know when it comes into play though. Does it mean I have those many frames before I can attack if the opponent blocked my first attack.

You want your block advantage to not be
-15 that's full combo punishable. You want your move to be as close to or above 0 as much as possible. For a poke anything - 5 or less is good on block advantage but that means your at disadvantage which means they can start up their offense.

If your +5 or something off a blocked move that's great. It means you can throw that move out and still be at advantage.

Now onto the hit advantage.
The higher the number on hit advantage the better . If your like +15 on hit that means you have a lot of options. For a lot of character it can be a 50/50.

Being negative on hit is bad.

 

[24K]

Correct me if I'm wrong on this then any EB players. But a great low poke starter would be D4xxDB4. Its SU-10, HA- 22, BA is -2. D1xxDB4 has a faster start up at 7 but a HA-14 and BA at -5. Scrap that. Just tested it out. If the opponent is blocking high and the low poke lands, they just have to keep holding block and the DB4 wont affect them. Which leaves B3xxDB4 or B33xxDB4 as the only low starting poke cancel option. Which is better I dont know. Here is the frame data let me know. B33 SU-12, HA-12, BA at -10. Then B3 is SU-13, HA-5, BA at -7. B33 starts up quicker and puts out more damage. Aaaaaand scrap that. They have the right place and time it seems. B33 is no good for mid screen. It pushes the opponent back with a mid. Fine for the corner. Suppose you might be able to run in if you use B33 mid screen. But there is no need to ever make it that hard on yourself. Will start practicing these low starter cancel poke things. Thanks guys. You have helped me work this out. To a point. Haha. still a little confused. Now I just need to do the same for a high starter. Since the only overhead seems to be the F1. Unless anybody knows a good combo that leads into an overhead. F1 is deadly slow at 15 frames of start up. Of course I need to know more about frame data to find out what moves leave me safe if the opponent blokes them. Or at the least, what leaves me the safest.

 

[24K]

Thanks. Didn't see those last to replies before I hit send. That helps clear up a lot. The 50/50 mix up with EB is great. Its what got me interested in him. I like how tricky he is. Got the block advantage thing now. So say if there is a hit advantage of 15. Does that mean that if I hit the opponent with it, that they are technically stunned for 15 frames. So I would be able to follow up with something that has 15 frames or less on start up.

 

[24K]

Actually B33xxDB4 works fine midscreen. You don't need to run cancel or dash. You can simply just walk forward a bit after the DB4. They stay stunned long enough to get closer and do something like the B32U1 launcher. which can followed with a juggle or sent them across screen in a hurry to get them in the corner.

 

[tatterbug4]

pokes don't combo

Thanks. Didn't see those last to replies before I hit send. That helps clear up a lot. The 50/50 mix up with EB is great. Its what got me interested in him. I like how tricky he is. Got the block advantage thing now. So say if there is a hit advantage of 15. Does that mean that if I hit the opponent with it, that they are technically stunned for 15 frames. So I would be able to follow up with something that has 15 frames or less on start up.

Yup. You could do something with a little over too but you'd be at the cost of someone armoring through