Flash Facts: Matchup Discussion

[doomfarmer]

The Flash Matchup Discussion

Aquaman 4-6
Atom 5-5
Atrocitus 5-5 or 4-6
Bane 5-5
Batman 5-5
Black Adam 5-5
Black Canary 5-5
Black Manta 5-5
Blue Beetle 5-5
Brainiac 5-5
Captain Cold 5-5
Catwoman 5-5
Cheetah 5-5
Cyborg 5-5
Darkseid 5-5
Deadshot 5-5
Doctor Fate 5-5 or 4-6
Firestorm 5-5
Green Arrow 4-6
Green Lantern 5-5
Gorilla Grodd 6-4
Harley Quinn 5-5
Hellboy 5-5
Joker 6-4
Poison Ivy 5-5
Raiden 5-5
Red Hood 4-6
Robin 5-5
Scarecrow 5-5 or 4-6
Starfire 5-5
Sub-Zero 5-5
Superman 5-5 or 4-6
Supergirl 4-6
Swamp Thing 5-5
Wonder Woman 4-6 or 3-7

 

[Mpizz10]

I think flash loses slightly to cheetah. I honest have easier time against robin. Her neutral is what gets me

 

[doomfarmer]

All the matchup numbers currently up are mostly just defaulted at 5-5 until things get talked about more. I read through the general discussion thread and made adjustments based on what people are saying his bad matchups are. Need feedback about what you guys think his good matchups are.

I think the Black Adam matchup is in Flash's favor.

 

[HappyPow]

Oh nice, Ok so really bad MUs are Cold, and Green Arrow, AguaHombre IMO. Might be the only 7-3s he has...
Then 6-4, WoWo, Quinn, Fate, Red Hood, Cat and the Bat (really not sure about the Cat tho, seems like a 5-5 lately... And to be honest The Bat could be a 5-5).

I honestly think that Cheetah and Supes and SupesGirl are 5-5s.

Then Winning MUs, 4-6 : Bane, Darkseid, Firestorm, Black Adam, Black Canary.

Unfortunatly I haven't experienced all the MUs but so far I feel it this way.

 

[Snibbor]

How does he beat Black Adam?

 

[doomfarmer]

How does he beat Black Adam?

Black Adam's zoning is really not a problem for Flash. It helps that he can't rapidly pump out fast traveling horizontal projectiles like a lot of zoners can. Instead his projectiles are pretty easily read due to his telegraphed startup. This makes it, IMO, the easiest zoner to read and get in on quickly. That's already half of Flash's game right there, getting close. Once he's in Adam has a hard time keeping him out. Number one, look at the characters that give Flash a hard time. They have great range on their normals, like Catwoman, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, etc. Flash has a hard time poking them back because of his limited range. Black Adam however doesn't have that kind of footsie range those characters do, so he has to fight you in the range you want to be in anyway, making it easy to poke back, full combo punish into knockdown pressure. Then, Adam's wakeups aren't the best. I think he only has that one wakeup with invincible frames, and it's not fully invincible. So you can stuff that pretty easily with practice, and that nets you another full combo back into more knockdown pressure. Rinse and repeat. Pummel him in the corner. Black Adam is top tier yeah but he struggles to keep Flash off of him once he gets in.

 

[Chongo]

I agree on scarecrow number

 

[Espio]

Blue Beetle and Cheetah are accurate for now (5-5). I played a long set with a Flash player at CEO with them, games were always super close. They're both footsie heavy match ups and very fun as a result, I wish more match ups played out like those do.

 

[omooba]

Black Adam's zoning is really not a problem for Flash. It helps that he can't rapidly pump out fast traveling horizontal projectiles like a lot of zoners can. Instead his projectiles are pretty easily read due to his telegraphed startup. This makes it, IMO, the easiest zoner to read and get in on quickly. That's already half of Flash's game right there, getting close. Once he's in Adam has a hard time keeping him out. Number one, look at the characters that give Flash a hard time. They have great range on their normals, like Catwoman, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, etc. Flash has a hard time poking them back because of his limited range. Black Adam however doesn't have that kind of footsie range those characters do, so he has to fight you in the range you want to be in anyway, making it easy to poke back, full combo punish into knockdown pressure. Then, Adam's wakeups aren't the best. I think he only has that one wakeup with invincible frames, and it's not fully invincible. So you can stuff that pretty easily with practice, and that nets you another full combo back into more knockdown pressure. Rinse and repeat. Pummel him in the corner. Black Adam is top tier yeah but he struggles to keep Flash off of him once he gets in.

1) dive kick is decent for getting away
2) b1,2 has pretty good range
3) b1,2 flys over low pokes
4) his walk back speed is godlike for whiff punishing flash
i think it's 6-4 at least but then again i'm probably a little bit biased

 

[doomfarmer]

1) dive kick is decent for getting away
2) b1,2 has pretty good range
3) b1,2 flys over low pokes
4) his walk back speed is godlike for whiff punishing flash
i think it's 6-4 at least but then again i'm probably a little bit biased

I'm not saying he's FREE to Flash btw, dive kick is good of course for getting away but it's not hard to get back in on Adam. His b1,2 string does fly over low pokes but because its a high it's open to flash's awesome d2. So most times i'm mostly blocking low, looking for the b1 so I can blow it up and get a combo. Or if I get jailed by it most times Adam will do b1,2, trait, b1 <- BOOM that's when he'll get blown up by Flash's d2 full punish into rms pressure. This is just from my experience obviously.

 

[omooba]

I'm not saying he's FREE to Flash btw, dive kick is good of course for getting away but it's not hard to get back in on Adam. His b1,2 string does fly over low pokes but because its a high it's open to flash's awesome d2. So most times i'm mostly blocking low, looking for the b1 so I can blow it up and get a combo. Or if I get jailed by it most times Adam will do b1,2, trait, b1 <- BOOM that's when he'll get blown up by Flash's d2 full punish into rms pressure. This is just from my experience obviously.

said no one fighting black adam lol

 

[AK Harold]

I agree on scarecrow number

Then why you losing bro? Jk I think scarecrow is pretty advantaged in this match up. Reason why I look into him so much.

 

[AK Harold]

vs Robin
I think Flash is even or winning. There is not much that threatens Flash in this match up unless you are throwing out errant pokes to get whiff punished. Typically Flash do not play that game. We are less free on wake up than he is and we get to open with a 50/50 whereas Robin has to open you up somehow and then proceed to mix.

Neutral Flash can deny most of Robin's trait and batarangs from threatening range with RMS. I think our trait puts us over the top in the match up as it further breaks neutral for us against Robin. I would say solid 5-5 or possible 6-4 for Flash but I am an up player as most people would say.

 

[AK Harold]

vs Dr. Fate 5-5 or better
again Flash is winning or even imo. At max screen distance you lose against Fate technically but you can use dodge to stay meter neutral until you can move in 3/4 screen. You can duck Fates fireballs with RMS and actually run forward under MB version of finger blasts. As most obvious Flash wins up close I think against Fate. You can stay even on damage potential using no meter and conserving for MB B3 or trait combos only and your damage ratio will out weigh his heavily. Alternatively, on second bar you can save for super which nullifies all of his options.

On his wake up you can do an early jump to get over his wake up but it is better to take a step back and whiff punish with your speed punches and reset the situation. Also, if they do not wake up at that distance you are still in an advantageous position being that close to him. He has to use mb B3 or F3 in order to contest you and you can simply block and gain more meter advantage. Alternatively, you can throw errant 2's out to stuff that and his F2 to combo. I forget to mention if they slow orb you can slide under to punish at the right distances. If he does a set up one on knock down obviously you have to block it or mb through it.

 

[doomfarmer]

@AK Harold
Alright I'm gonna set Robin at 5-5 for now, I could just be playing that match wrong. I agree there isn't much to threaten Flash with and the batarangs aren't a problem. In my experience it's just been more of an annoying keep out game with the range on his pokes, making it difficult to get something going. Similar to what Wonder Woman does with her lasso attacks.

Fate though. This is a tough one to figure out matchup number wise. Everything you described sounds great and i've played matches that go exactly like you say. I've also played some fates that make me want to set my controller down. Getting in on his basic fireballs can be easy enough but it's usually when they're constantly putting out that orb and making it stop so it sits right in front of them that it gets difficult. I know you can rms into a slide and go under the stationary orb, but the fate player will usually be looking for that. So they can do the Glyph attack and push you back across the screen. If you DO low profile the stationary orb and connect with the slide, it flips them on the opposite side of the orb, and you're stuck trying to get around it again, but this time there's no room to slide because you're right on top of it. I hope more people will chime in about this matchup.

 

[AK Harold]

If they mb it, you need to respect it and build meters typically. You can also walk block them since you are bound to lose that amount of life or more if you let them ankh behind it. Constant aggression is needed to limit his ankh and meter game.

 

[AK Harold]

Also if we have a Dr. Fate in house I wouldn't mind going a few rounds, that goes for any character tbh on the list that is considered a bad match up.

 

[Kooron Nation]

Also if we have a Dr. Fate in house I wouldn't mind going a few rounds, that goes for any character tbh on the list that is considered a bad match up.

@Dankster Morgan @DarksydeDash @OmGxBdON

 

[Kooron Nation]

Also there's no way Flash vs. Robin is 5-5, it's definitely a 6-4 to Robin
A smart Robin won't try to challenge you up close with birdarang staggers, he will just outrange you so you can never get in, his d2 is godlike so you can't jump, also his D3 has great range so he could just sit back and bully you with b2/F2 and d3's, and then d2 on reaction.
Wonder Woman I'd say is 7-3 since you can't even Quantum Tunnel her shield, it's near impossible to get close to her

 

[AK Harold]

@Kooron Nation
Cool do you have a Robin practice partner? I'd like to play them. His start up is kinda slow on a lot of his moves where you can literally run up to him and feint a lot with RMS where they cannot react and have to make reads just to keep you out.

Wowo I think is an uphill match. I have noticed I do a lot better when using raw trait against her on cooldown to overcome her range.

 

[Kooron Nation]

@Kooron Nation
Cool do you have a Robin practice partner? I'd like to play them. His start up is kinda slow on a lot of his moves where you can literally run up to him and feint a lot with RMS where they cannot react and have to make reads just to keep you out.

Wowo I think is an uphill match. I have noticed I do a lot better when using raw trait against her on cooldown to overcome her range.

I do but I am in Australia so probably not possible haha

 

[EMP Dark]

Agreed on The Joker mu

 

[doomfarmer]

Just putting ideas out here, as there's been a lot of talk about trying to get more in depth in the matchup threads. Do you think we should have character specific matchup info in the OP? Say under the number chart, I put spoiler tags for each character that you can click on for more info. Or maybe what we could do is have a new thread for every matchup, like "Flash v Black Adam discussion" or something, and then just link to those threads next to the numbers here? I don't want to clutter up the boards but I do want to have as much information as we can so we can all collectively level this shit up. Thoughts?

 

[AK Harold]

Honestly I think just open dialogue on specific match ups here is good and just link Match up footage and character specific tech is good. I am busy practicing when i can play so I am not very good at producing such quality videos, but as a start I would do Flash vs wake up for the whole cast as that would help most players at the moment. Sounds like people get pushed out too fast.

 

[Redk9]

Would anyone mind fighting my BA and showing me how it's a bad match up for him? I personally think he has no losing match ups so I'd like to understand