Finding tech and finding new uses for your tools?

[DDutchguy]

I was watching Reo's stream tonight, seeing Zyphox, Reo, Slayer and DJT play and they were doing some pretty sophisticated things with their characters' tools. Reo getting some nice setups with Relentless, Slayer using divekick to punish an anti-crossover attempt + using low chakram to low profile Zyphox's flying kick, DJT's A-list getting good oki by ending corner combos in 114... I saw that and a ton more ways in which these players used their tools in very creative and effective ways.

Of course you'll have to go to the lab to find out how certain setups work and which attacks can be used for different purposes. But I was wondering how these things generally come to be. Whenever I go to the lab myself, I just practice my lightning run cancels or my combos or something. To me, it either feels like all tech has already been found or there are no other uses for my tools besides what they're used for at face value: Cancels are just for conversions, not that great for pressure as I'm too - after them. Staggering strings doesn't work because of Raiden's high recovery frames, so I just finish all my strings immediately into shocker which gives up my turn. I don't see any other ways to use these things, yet when I see players like Nivek use Raiden they pull off stuff that I never imagined.

The general thought behind this thread is, how does everyone find ways to use their character's moves in such creative ways? Is there a mindset you gotta get yourself into, is it just hitting the lab for hours on end and stumbling into it randomly, or is there something more?

 

[Scott The Scot]

What I do is find a problem then try to find a solution. With Spec Ops Cassie I had to test various combos and enders to set up a missile that is safe against tech rolling EX Slide reptile. I found the answer really surprising to be honest.

Sometimes I go into the lab with a specific piece of tech I want to find - like wakeup reversals. But most of the time I just see something then I think "hey, that looks like I could reverse wakeups with that move!".

Sometimes a weird thing happens in a match and you just gotta try and replicate it in the lab then try and make it consistent.

And of course sometimes you randomly stumble upon something lol.

 

[RyuKazuya]

I was watching Reo's stream tonight, seeing Zyphox, Reo, Slayer and DJT play and they were doing some pretty sophisticated things with their characters' tools. Reo getting some nice setups with Relentless, Slayer using divekick to punish an anti-crossover attempt + using low chakram to low profile Zyphox's flying kick, DJT's A-list getting good oki by ending corner combos in 114... I saw that and a ton more ways in which these players used their tools in very creative and effective ways.

Of course you'll have to go to the lab to find out how certain setups work and which attacks can be used for different purposes. But I was wondering how these things generally come to be. Whenever I go to the lab myself, I just practice my lightning run cancels or my combos or something. To me, it either feels like all tech has already been found or there are no other uses for my tools besides what they're used for at face value: Cancels are just for conversions, not that great for pressure as I'm too - after them. Staggering strings doesn't work because of Raiden's high recovery frames, so I just finish all my strings immediately into shocker which gives up my turn. I don't see any other ways to use these things, yet when I see players like Nivek use Raiden they pull off stuff that I never imagined.

The general thought behind this thread is, how does everyone find ways to use their character's moves in such creative ways? Is there a mindset you gotta get yourself into, is it just hitting the lab for hours on end and stumbling into it randomly, or is there something more?

I would say that during playing other people you suddenly come across certain situations that make you think about certain strategies to avoid getting into that mentioned situation. Its like getting food from casuals and eating it in the lab if you know what i mean. Thats at least what i do
Its ideas you collect that make you think about ways that optimize your options.

 

[Aqueous_Echo]

Well it is good practice to warm up FBRC, combos, etc before jumping in a game for sure.

Labbing though is a lot different than warming up/doing combos. Theres a ton of stuff you can set the AI to do in many situations and thats where youll find food strings to use for anti wake up/oki pressure. This is also a food way to see just how much time (hit advantage/block advantage) you have after xyz.

You can build an internal clock when you know "ok they blocked electrocute and im -7. They have x amount of a window to input a move. Are they waiting too long after this because theyre scared of armor? "

Things like an internal clock is a really good trait to learn so that you can capitalize on the opponent just waiting too long when Its their turn.

Of course theres many ways labbing works but dont want to build a huge wall of text bigger than I already have.

 

[ismael4790]

http://www.soundboard.com/sb/sound/890388

 

[leoj89]

yomi or the other pro players that make vids really need a series dedicated to how to use the lab properly.

 

[GrimJack]

it is easier finding a solution for a known situation compares to coming up with something out of thin air. So how you find it is to play against other players, see what they do in different situations then go to the lab and find the answer to defend/punish it.

 

[Syzoth]

I try to find a use for every string which leads to some fascinating discoveries. Then there's things I didn't find but saw other people figure out.. such as shinnoks amulet sucking in projectiles.. and Jaqui's quick burst launching projectiles. Who knew?

 

[honeybooboo]

After reading your post, i want to say that innovation comes from years of fg playtime and playing against other expirienced players. If there was a major tournament with a prize pool atleast once a month youd see crazy level up within the pro players. Also natural talent plays a big part. When talent actually puts in the work, then its gameover. Just look at Fox; Fox has been dominating since the release of the game. Pretty much it comes down to innovation and talent.

 

[omooba]

finding tech isn't for errbody.

 

[Darth-Nero]

Master your character and learn matchups, everything else comes with experience.
EX: Raiden's big leg aka f4 high profiles mileena's roll and all sort of slides and low projectiles on read.

You discover techs like that by playing a lot and pushing your character to it's limits, spending time in the lab also helps.

 

[Ninequads93]

A lot of the time it comes down to thinking outside of the box , knowing your characters tools inside and out

 

[PlatypusVortex]

Whenever i lose badly to someone or they were doing things i didn't have an answer for I'll go back and watch the replays and try to figure out what i could've done differently. when I first started playing reptile i didn't know what to do about people jumping my forceballs so i tested stopping forceballs and bam! that was my answer. Eventually i also tried out jump kicks into the forceball too. Seems obvious now but i hadnt seen enough reptile footage to know. Generally problems are what drive me find bits of tech.

Another approach is to look at certain combo string, special etc and start trying to figure out what would be the absolute wrong way to use that particular tool. Sounds weird but it gets your brain going in a different direction and can let you come up with some very out of the box ideas. I came up with a weird forceball setup in the corner by doing that.

 

[Shaikhuzzaman]

Whenever I go into practice mode I do the things I know I can do 10/10 times for 10 minutes and then I just mess about with the character see what happens. Also I try different things in a real game as well. To see what people let you away with or see what kind of situation doing a certain move leaves you in

 

[DDutchguy]

I would say that during playing other people you suddenly come across certain situations that make you think about certain strategies to avoid getting into that mentioned situation. Its like getting food from casuals and eating it in the lab if you know what i mean. Thats at least what i do
Its ideas you collect that make you think about ways that optimize your options.

I suppose I did look at things wrongly by thinking it's about looking at your own tools and figuring things out with it, instead of looking at your opponent and beating their things with your tools. The former still seemed applicable as to what the Yomi boys showed off.

 

[IrishMantis]

I've got the best advice for finding tech that by the looks of it nobody knows and this top secret advice will stop people from posting 90% of so called tech.

Are you ready to be mind blowing!!!!
Read it while you can because I might pull a Brady and delete this for no reason because why not.

Here we go

Go to practice setting > Turn on Tech roll!

Does your tech still work?

 

[DDutchguy]

I've got the best advice for finding tech that by the looks of it nobody knows and this top secret advice will stop people from posting 90% of so called tech.

Are you ready to be mind blowing!!!!
Read it while you can because I might pull a Brady and delete this for no reason because why not.

Here we go

Go to practice setting > Turn on Tech roll!

Does your tech still work?

Wow I just beat PL 13-0 with this trick thanks Mantis

 

[DDutchguy]

http://www.soundboard.com/sb/sound/890388

That's godlike.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Every single advanced player founds more than one use for the given tools.
I use scorpion ex tele to trip guard punish, standing 1 when i run under jumps to aa, low profile crossups with B4.

Mcfly HCB while using interactable to AA while he travels torwards.

 

[1man3letters]

I've got the best advice for finding tech that by the looks of it nobody knows and this top secret advice will stop people from posting 90% of so called tech.

Are you ready to be mind blowing!!!!
Read it while you can because I might pull a Brady and delete this for no reason because why not.

Here we go

Go to practice setting > Turn on Tech roll!

Does your tech still work?

 

[GrimJack]

Every single advanced player founds more than one use for the given tools.
I use scorpion ex tele to trip guard punish, standing 1 when i run under jumps to aa, low profile crossups with B4.

Mcfly HCB while using interactable to AA while he travels torwards.

Can you tell me when someone found an use for Tremor f2

 

[dennycascade]

Can you tell me when someone found an use for Tremor f2

If your opponent is below 14% and you make a hard read on an armored wakeup you can just f2 on their wakeup and they'll die from the damage before their armor even touches you. It's safe on block but death on whiff so there's some risk involved. It's situational but that's my use for f2. I even somehow got the brutality once.

 

[omooba]

Can you tell me when someone found an use for Tremor f2

when it get's buffed to 20% i would use it instead of uppercut to clutch out a game

 

[Second Saint]

Most of the tech I've posted has been for Venomous D'vorah, and I found that by noticing inconsistencies, having a question and looking for an answer, and just plain using a special that most people had written off as almost useless.

In the beginning of the game, I made a good chunk of the Kotal combo thread because I had to know what he could do with every string. Using the forbidden setting @IrishMantis dared to speak of, I delved deep into dark and foul gimmicks with unblockables and df3 corner oki, but nothing actually substantial came out of it.

So there are a lot more misses than hits in my experience. For every lead into something good I've had, most of them have failed. But a few times it was real, even after I'd been positive there wasn't anything left (or really at all) to find in Venomous. Then I realized she had the most plus on block move in the game (+47) and no one was using it except it combos. And you could break armor with it, while Swarm Queen couldn't.

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

@DDutchguy when I hit the lab for tech it's because of these reasons.
•I loss to something I didn't understand or didn't know.
•I need to find better oki setups to keep the offense going.
•I need to see how to make myself more safe.
•I need to see what is punishable and what isn't.
•Find out what options I have in a certain situation and what can I do better in the neutral against certain characters.

This should be the basis of finding tech