Question - Erron Black F24 into caltrops VS 21122 into caltrops (In the corner)

[Thanilla Ice]

Why do people like SonicFox cancel f24 into caltrops, 21122 does more damage and it gives the enemy less time to react on wakeup. Unarmored 6 frame attacks beats Erron's overhead and low on wakeup when you cancel f24 into caltrops, but opponents can't beat 21122 into caltrops, not even 6 frame attacks can beat it... I see no reason to use F24 into caltrops in the corner because of its tricky timing to cancel and for the reasons above...
@HeroesNZ @SonicFox5000

 

[21122]

1. F24 is a hard knockdown (opponent can't wake up attack)
2. Pressure
3. Caltrop setup has potential for more damage caltrops ontop of 21122-ex sand pressure = GG
4. Makes some people panic and do dumb things

 

[Thanilla Ice]

1. F24 is a hard knockdown (opponent can't wake up attack)
2. Pressure
3. Caltrop setup has potential for more damage caltrops ontop of 21122-ex sand pressure = GG
4. Makes some people panic and do dumb things

I must've read somewhere wrong a while ago, can you explain to me what the difference between a hard knockdown and a regular knockdown is in MKX?

 

[Groove Heaven]

Go to the lab, make the dummy tech roll, try both and you'll see why f24 is better. I use both to mix it up a little but f24 is a hard knockdown which makes it a great option.

 

[21122]

btw while we are at the topic of hard knockdown. How do you tell if a move is a hard knockdown?

 

[Thanilla Ice]

Go to the lab, make the dummy tech roll, try both and you'll see why f24 is better. I use both to mix it up a little but f24 is a hard knockdown which makes it a great option.

lol I literally JUST did that and I see why, you can't tech roll after f24 and no wakeup punches

 

[Thanilla Ice]

btw while we are at the topic of hard knockdown. How do you tell if a move is a hard knockdown?

I don't think there is a visual way to tell...

 

[Thanilla Ice]

1. F24 is a hard knockdown (opponent can't wake up attack)
2. Pressure
3. Caltrop setup has potential for more damage caltrops ontop of 21122-ex sand pressure = GG
4. Makes some people panic and do dumb things

I guess it just depends on the situation F24 for pressure and 21122 to close it out, ty

 

[Groove Heaven]

btw while we are at the topic of hard knockdown. How do you tell if a move is a hard knockdown?

Set the AI to roll on wakeup (AI options > roll mode > on) and just start knocking it down with stuff to see what it can and can't tech roll out of.

Off the top of my head EBs hard knockdowns are
121
f24
b4
slide (non-EX only)
command grab
regular grabs
tarkatan stab (outlaw)

This is also why a lot of EB players end combos in slide...good damage, big advantage, untechable.

 

[getoverhere--->]

Good thread, I'ma use f24 more often now